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My favorite PvP strategy is to get blink stalkers and expand in opposite corners of the map. When they move out to kill you, you blink in and trade bases. Your infrastructure will be spread out, however, while theirs will be clumped together, so they'll take heavier damage in the base trade while you'll have some mining and production.
There are a lot of ways to get to that point and you'll have to adapt to a bunch of scouting cues to figure out how quickly you can afford to invest in tech and economy, but it's a strong gameplan if you have good control.
Note that this strategy can start with a 3 gate blink opening where you don't cut probes. The attack will therefore be a little later and lighter than the all-in variant. The timing attack won't do a lot of damage against safe builds, but you'll have a good shot to win a macro game.
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On January 20 2011 01:53 Markwerf wrote:
The only build that can stop a 4 gate except a 4 gate variation itself is a 2 / 3 gate robo build imo
Way to ignore everyone else and give false information.
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On January 20 2011 05:23 CecilSunkure wrote:Show nested quote +On January 20 2011 01:53 Markwerf wrote:
The only build that can stop a 4 gate except a 4 gate variation itself is a 2 / 3 gate robo build imo Way to ignore everyone else and give false information.
It's not *that* false. You can try to hold a hard 4 gate with 3 gates, but it's pretty damn hard.
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The safest but very powerful build in PvP is still 2-gate robo + 1 gate. Don't think about stuff like "even with forcefields, he can warp-in units on my ramp!!!!", because it's not true if you can micro. There are a lot of things you can do with sentries, like double-FF. Then you can easily expand and transition into either immortals (if they went blink stalkers) or collossi.
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On January 19 2011 07:55 Volka wrote:
If you're bored, try 1 Gate Fast Expand. It's a real challange to hold a 4 gate...
Is it even possible to hold off a proper 4gate with a FE?
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On January 20 2011 05:46 PatouPower wrote:
The safest but very powerful build in PvP is still 2-gate robo + 1 gate. Don't think about stuff like "even with forcefields, he can warp-in units on my ramp!!!!", because it's not true if you can micro. There are a lot of things you can do with sentries, like double-FF. Then you can easily expand and transition into either immortals (if they went blink stalkers) or collossi.
3gate/robo was extremely good against 4gate for a while... The problem is that it takes 2 forcefields to hold a normal ramp now with things like zealot warp-ins on the ramp and/or high ground. This means that if you intend to delay a 4gate you will have to invest ALL of your gas into sentries. This will leave you with a pitful army and no tech. He can just sit at your door and force you to waste all the forcefields and then engage against your weaker army.
As it's been said before, the only safe builds in PvP right now are 4gate variants.
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the problem with going 2 or 3 gate robo is that people that 4 gate will push up your ramp with their zealot and stalker to either kill your sentry that just came out or to make you use a forcefield, and then you're outnumbered
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You'll have a lot easier time in PvP if you get used to just 4 gating defensively if you scout them saving chronos. You can easily transition into a blink midgame since you'll have a bunch of stalkers anyways so it doesn't really put you too far behind vs just opening 3 gate blink. You just won't do as much damage with your initial poke.
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On January 20 2011 02:19 AdrenalGBR wrote:
Adel's 2-gate expansion is roughly the following;
9 Pylon
13 Gate, 13 Scout
15 Pylon
17 Gate
Four Zealots, Gas on ~20 and Core on ~24. After that you push with the first four Zealots, aiming for a timing as soon as possible after 4:30 then follow it up with two Stalkers. Sometimes you can win the game by chronoing more units there and then because he got really greedy; other times you just sack a few Zealots to get a worker lead.
After that, you either expand and add 3 more Gates plus a Forge, or put up the Gateways first if you're feeling less comfortable. Cannon at expo choke and you're sorted. Transition into Blink Stalker nastiness.
But you're in Master and so am I; you should know that there's no super-safe build in PvP that isn't a 4-gate; you can 12-gate chrono save or defensive 4-gate and be contained, but either way the safe builds are all variants of 4-gate. If you want to deviate in order to enjoy the matchup (which is fine) then there are plenty of builds you can do - any kind of 3-gate Sentry-heavy tech will be something else that can survive and beat a 4-gate if the other guy makes some mistakes. Just don't pretend there's a safe non-4-gate build out there. We'd all be doing it if it existed.
Thanks for this post Adrenal, I do agree with you, there isn't anything that is guaranteed to repel a 4gate that isn't a 4 gate.
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Sentry play is safe if you scout for that nearby pylon and know it's there. Just FF the bottom of the ramp without letting any units up. After 1-2 FFs of stalling you probably have enough stuff of your own to kill a unit or two on the top of the ramp and the 4 warping in units without much trouble.
My opener on most maps and matchups these days is 2gas, gate-core-gate, from this point I either 2gate expand, 2gate tech, or add on 1 more gateway based on what I scout. I also save chrono boosts, ideally for warpgate but I can use them for early units if I scout something like a 2rax or 2gate opener. I stopped going 1gas as toss as soon as I realized how ridiculous Sentries are. You can push with mass Sentry for FF in many cases, and you can almost always defend better with a trillion Sentries.
That crucial 5-8 minute phase of the game feels soooo much safer when you have 3+ sentries chilling at the top of your ramp. I'm a macro-oriented, defensive player, so being on fast 2gas and teching or expanding on minimal gateways while still being safe is my ideal early game position. The biggest problem I have with this build is dealing with Terrans who deny scouting effectively with, e.g., a low ground wall-off; I need to go fast robo to deal with cloakshee rushes, but I need to add on gateways to deal with a 4rax all-in. Such is the cost of not just going for the T1.5 1base all-in myself every game, I guess. If you win the early scouting micro war and know exactly what your opponent is up to, this opener is insanely powerful and flexible. I suck at food-based BOs but I'll do my best at one:
9pylon
3 boosts on probes starting just as the pylon finishes
~10-11 scout
13gateway
14gas
16pylon
17(?)core (as soon as gateway finishes)
stalker
20gas
20-22-ish second gateway
from there it changes a lot depending on early scouting, but if you see pretty standard play and neither plan on all-ining nor expect your opponent to all-in anytime soon, you want to get up to at least 3 Sentries ASAP and then either tech or expand based on your second probe scout. You can also just transition into a 4gate with a high sentry count and a much easier time squeezing in an expo or robo without cutting too much unit production. Making sentries mean spending less minerals, and not making sentries means banking up some gas for a tech switch. You still end up saturated on 1base of minerals around the time you start producing constantly, anyway.
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EPT
