Yup. The standard is to pressure with 2 marine 1 marauder and making cc as you move out which would come at around 25-26 supply. The fastest possible cc you can make does come at 19 supply if you skip the 2nd depot but it's pretty uncommon.

cArn-

Korea (South)824 Posts

January 08 2011 20:19 GMT

#22

On January 09 2011 02:44 Sadist wrote:
get an ebay and wait to build turrets until you know hes going DT (save a scan or something)

You don't get the point at all.

If you don't go for a build that opens your tech tree relatively fast, a DT opening protoss will ALWAYS be ahead, because once DTs are out he's 100% safe until a raven is out, which takes forever if you didn't tech (if you went 1/2rax fe, 2/3 rax pressure or w/e), so he'll be able to expand completely uncontested and tech to whatever the fuck he wants (most of the time HTs which are ridiculously fast to get once DTs are out compared to the time those DTs buy for protoss)

All the people hey get an ebay some turrets and tadaaa ! you're set don't understand anything about what DTs are supposed to do

infinity21

Canada6683 Posts

January 08 2011 20:38 GMT

#23

On January 09 2011 05:19 cArn- wrote:

Show nested quote +

Let me get this straight. If P opens DT vs a FE build from terran, he can take 2 expansions, have storm ready AND have a big enough army to take on T's MM ball before T builds a factory, starport, then a raven? That's pretty impressive.

Yamulo

United States2096 Posts

January 08 2011 20:44 GMT

#24

I would say that the answer is proper scouting, you don't even need to see the shrine. In fact if you look at his unit composition and his # of gas taken you can predict that he has some other form of tech, so it might be wise to save 1 scan if you suspect dts. Do note that he could be going some other form of tech as well.

HTX

Germany265 Posts

January 08 2011 20:48 GMT

#25

+ Show Spoiler +

On January 09 2011 02:42 Starshaped wrote:
Hey, so, I've basically been getting a quick raven every game versus Protoss, as it's safe and allows for some nice timing attacks. I love it when my opponent blindly goes DT and gets stopped short at my ramp.

But, then I wanted to try some other builds. 2rax FE etc. and found if my opponent happened to go DTs I would just lose. Not outright, but enough damage would be done where he could just macro up off his advantage and win with ease. Is doing anything other than quick raven just plain risky? Will there be these stupid build-order losses? I don't wanna do things that can blindly get owned by luck, doesn't feel like a competitive RTS to me. I'm always baffled when pros do something like 1rax FE in a competitive match, as, depending on the map, there must be so many potential outright build-order losses. It's kind of like when I watched Idra's stream and saw him go 14hatch in ZvZ and just lose minutes in to an early pool rush. Am I missing something here, or can sheer luck outright win you games?

Another thing is warpgates and big maps. Now, say you're a P versus a T on cross-map Shakuras. You can fairly safely go 1gate FE, right? Safest thing in the world. But the T has no such luxury, since a P can just put a proxy pylon and do some gateway all-in and avoid any large distance. Are big maps inherently worse for terran, or what?

You can save the energy on your second OC for scanning or incorporate an early ebay for upgrades and turrets if you face DTs so much.

bobucles

410 Posts

January 08 2011 21:20 GMT

#26

Getting a slightly early e-bay isn't THAT big of a deal. +1 infantry is not unusual for a good timing push.

The biggest challenge is making sure you adequately scout a DT teching Protoss. Even that can be largely mitigated if you wall off all points of entry, a feat that isn't very difficult for Terran.

cilinder007

Slovenia7251 Posts

January 08 2011 21:26 GMT

#27

On January 09 2011 06:20 bobucles wrote:
Getting a slightly early e-bay isn't THAT big of a deal. +1 infantry is not unusual for a good timing push.

The biggest challenge is making sure you adequately scout a DT teching Protoss. Even that can be largely mitigated if you wall off all points of entry, a feat that isn't very difficult for Terran.

he's talking about a FE not a 1 base timing push...
if you make an ebay when doing a FE you just loose cause thats 125+whatever many turrets you build that could have bee units,

YES if you go 1 rax FE you loose to DT's there's nothing you can do about it !

bobucles

410 Posts

January 08 2011 22:27 GMT

#28

if you make an ebay when doing a FE you just loose cause thats 125+whatever many turrets you build that could have bee units,

You mean ONE turret for the expansion, right? Their detection range is enough to cover the natural and ramp for most maps. Cloaked units can't walk through walls. That still costs less than trading a mule for a scan.

If he's getting DT's faster than you get marines, there are probably other issues going on.

kYem

United Kingdom412 Posts

January 08 2011 23:09 GMT

#29

On January 09 2011 04:57 Poopi wrote:
I use 2rax FE, 1marine 1 marauder+concussive then reaper (and bunker), scout with the reaper, if you see 4gate add 1 bunker, if you see like 3gate no robotic (and your reaper get killed before seeing the hidden tech) expect dt or voidray so you can buy ebay relatively fast.
It works for me atm

That's how its usually works, however there a new trend to go for robo + dts. So i scouted a robo and gateways and feel rather safe... a bit later i see dts inside my base (warp prism), so you have to build bay even if you see robo nowadays