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My usual PvP is a slow 2nd gas 3 gate robo. I usually get 2 observers one for scouting and one for detection.
Alot of people are going DTs lately and I am losing to it alot..I have pretty good macro and usually have bigger armies but even with detection it seems that the DTS chew through my army quite well. I'm at the point where I just want to get a forge every game and throw cannons at my ramp. The DT push comes pretty fast and the zlots/stalker/sentry army just cant handle the DTS even with detection it seems plus 1 or 2 always get past into the mineral line.
My usual is to hold off my ramp and then expand into collosus as I push out. It is very frustrating knowing what your opponent is doing. preparing for it and still losing..
Any tips on how to hold off DTs. Like I said, even with detection they just deal out alot of damage. I target them down with my stalkers usually or try to use forcefields to keep them back but idk.
Thanks in advanced
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If you can't hold a DT rush when you have detection, he probably just outmacro'd you. Try sniping them with your stalkers. Charge could help too, since more zealots are whacking at them.
PS a replay example to show what skill level you are at would help
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DTs are insanely gas heavy. Usually people have no more than 3 DTs on their first push. In such a scenario, snipe them with your stalker and immortals. Once the DTs are cleaned up, the rest of the army is usually much easier to handle because he spent too much on the DTs.
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Grabbing a few Phoenix or Void Rays helps with the DTs as well. Also, search the edges of your base for a Warp Prism, I've found that people use these in conjunction with DTs quite a bit... sometimes they'll warp in a few Zeals to help disguise the attack and delay your detection a little longer.
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If they go DT's, you're usually able to expand as it takes a very long time to make a strong army AND DT's. If you're engaging, just forcefield the dark templars away. They're melee, they can't attack through forcefields. DT's are very fragile, so you can also snipe them quite easily.
If DT's are running across you and you do nothing about it, then you're doing it wrong. They're army should be VERY tiny, besides the DT's, compared to yours if you haven't expanded. Colossus should be able to make it so easy to rid of them. Chronoboost warp-gates when you see an attack is coming, it really helps.
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I suggest you use the standard 4gate, it is good vs everything and will always kill any player going for DTs.
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I dont like going collosus off one base and the DTs hit way before collosus..I guess 4 gate would work..Past couple PvP games I have just been DTing myself...if you cant beat em join em!
Thanks for all the tips..i guess i just need more stalkers to help snipe a littl faster, that seems to be the most solid tip...
getting air to help with the DTs doesnt seem so good i could support that with the obs and have enough gates to survive, although I am just speculating..thanks again. Playing more and more seems to help too.
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On January 09 2011 02:08 BukoJuko wrote:
My usual PvP is a slow 2nd gas 3 gate robo. I usually get 2 observers one for scouting and one for detection.
Alot of people are going DTs lately and I am losing to it alot..I have pretty good macro and usually have bigger armies but even with detection it seems that the DTS chew through my army quite well. I'm at the point where I just want to get a forge every game and throw cannons at my ramp. The DT push comes pretty fast and the zlots/stalker/sentry army just cant handle the DTS even with detection it seems plus 1 or 2 always get past into the mineral line.
My usual is to hold off my ramp and then expand into collosus as I push out. It is very frustrating knowing what your opponent is doing. preparing for it and still losing..
Any tips on how to hold off DTs. Like I said, even with detection they just deal out alot of damage. I target them down with my stalkers usually or try to use forcefields to keep them back but idk.
Thanks in advanced
you should try some nice forcefields to prevent the other protosss' melee units from fighting while focus firing their DTs with a colossus/your stalkers. you can also let an immortal tank those DTs..
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On January 09 2011 02:46 BukoJuko wrote:
I dont like going collosus off one base and the DTs hit way before collosus..I guess 4 gate would work..Past couple PvP games I have just been DTing myself...if you cant beat em join em!
Thanks for all the tips..i guess i just need more stalkers to help snipe a littl faster, that seems to be the most solid tip...
getting air to help with the DTs doesnt seem so good i could support that with the obs and have enough gates to survive, although I am just speculating..thanks again. Playing more and more seems to help too.
It's not like I'm asking you to build a fleet, just a handful does well enough and if you are waiting on the obs to get back, I've found that charging my first VR on a Nexus really cleans up the DTs fast.
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Scout earlier , count units at front, see what kind of unit kills your probe, count number of sentries.
No units = free scouting information
Few gateway units = probably some kind of tech (DT-Rush | Collossi | Stargate)
Few gateway units + 1 or more Immortals = Robo-Tech = No DT early
Bunch of gateway units = 4-Gate or some kind of Timing Push
Use this information.
DT Rush = Few gateway units & not many sentries... => Be aggressive and prepare for DTs.
You'll lose to every 4-Gate, if you worry too much about DTs (by building 2 Observer or even Cannons)
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cannon at the ramp, canon by the minerals, if they go 2 gas and no robo or stargate... it's prob gona be dts if they dont have 4 gates.
edit: i misread you.
a standard 4 gate in my experience his right when dts come out if they rush them so you'll have 0 detection and be in a bad situation. You have to hit at around 530, dts can come out a lil past 620.
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i lost a game to dt's recently.
when i first scouted him he was making 3 gates, killed my scout. i go 3gate robo (first 2 gates, then robo then third) and right at the time my obs arrived at his base, his first 3 dt's arrived at mine, so i instantly pulled the obs back and chrono'ed a new one, but by that time he had done alot of damage, and he got out of my base, waiting somewhere. i couldn't make the push to kill him without finding & killing the dt's near my base first, since they would enter the moment i left.
he then just outexpanded and outmacroed me.
conclusion: shortly after i lost the first scout, i shouldve sent another one to see his small army, then i wouldve kept the obs home, or made a forge, and slaughtered him without any problems.
so it's all about the knowing, and what latrik said is a very good trick. also, this guy delayed his 2nd gas until my scout was dead, so i really didn't see it coming.
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On January 10 2011 01:28 gertg wrote:
i lost a game to dt's recently.
when i first scouted him he was making 3 gates, killed my scout. i go 3gate robo (first 2 gates, then robo then third) and right at the time my obs arrived at his base, his first 3 dt's arrived at mine, so i instantly pulled the obs back and chrono'ed a new one, but by that time he had done alot of damage, and he got out of my base, waiting somewhere. i couldn't make the push to kill him without finding & killing the dt's near my base first, since they would enter the moment i left.
he then just outexpanded and outmacroed me.
conclusion: shortly after i lost the first scout, i shouldve sent another one to see his small army, then i wouldve kept the obs home, or made a forge, and slaughtered him without any problems.
so it's all about the knowing, and what latrik said is a very good trick. also, this guy delayed his 2nd gas until my scout was dead, so i really didn't see it coming.
...What? I've gone DTs plenty of times before, and if the second gas comes any later than right after core, then the DTs get very delayed. Delaying for at least 300 minerals after core is a sure-fire way to have your rush slowed by like two-three minutes.
If his rush is delayed that long, and you only just got obs into his base, I think your build is slow.
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Usually its not tooo hard to scout the 2nd gas. If you do scout what seems like DT's, go ahead with 3 gate robo, and chrono out an observer and a Immortal. Use the Immortal as a big fat wall on your ramp, with stalkers sitting behind it. That way the DT's can't leak into your base. Stalkers are better against DT's than zealots.
Another very useful technique in PvP is building a stalker first, and coming over with a stalker or two to scout their base a little later. Stalkers move fast, so you should be able to avoid letting them die while still being able to get off a good scout that's a little more revealing. If you're lucky, you can even pick off a sentry or a zealot. Just be careful you don't get forcefielded to death.
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On January 10 2011 01:42 Darthturtle wrote:Show nested quote +On January 10 2011 01:28 gertg wrote:
i lost a game to dt's recently.
when i first scouted him he was making 3 gates, killed my scout. i go 3gate robo (first 2 gates, then robo then third) and right at the time my obs arrived at his base, his first 3 dt's arrived at mine, so i instantly pulled the obs back and chrono'ed a new one, but by that time he had done alot of damage, and he got out of my base, waiting somewhere. i couldn't make the push to kill him without finding & killing the dt's near my base first, since they would enter the moment i left.
he then just outexpanded and outmacroed me.
conclusion: shortly after i lost the first scout, i shouldve sent another one to see his small army, then i wouldve kept the obs home, or made a forge, and slaughtered him without any problems.
so it's all about the knowing, and what latrik said is a very good trick. also, this guy delayed his 2nd gas until my scout was dead, so i really didn't see it coming. ...What? I've gone DTs plenty of times before, and if the second gas comes any later than right after core, then the DTs get very delayed. Delaying for at least 300 minerals after core is a sure-fire way to have your rush slowed by like two-three minutes. If his rush is delayed that long, and you only just got obs into his base, I think your build is slow.
he had a hidden proxy and obs are very slow
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scout carefully. Iatrik covers what you need to scout very well. If the opponent is going DTs, don't tech and 4 gate them. after the first couple of waves have been warped in, if you haven't killed him or at least sniped some tech then retreat back and get a forge and cannons up before getting your robo. It's worth noting that if they go for DTs as fast as they can they will be zealot-heavy so having slightly less stalkers and more sentries for forcefield is the way to go in your unit mix.
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On January 10 2011 02:14 gertg wrote:Show nested quote +On January 10 2011 01:42 Darthturtle wrote:On January 10 2011 01:28 gertg wrote:
i lost a game to dt's recently.
when i first scouted him he was making 3 gates, killed my scout. i go 3gate robo (first 2 gates, then robo then third) and right at the time my obs arrived at his base, his first 3 dt's arrived at mine, so i instantly pulled the obs back and chrono'ed a new one, but by that time he had done alot of damage, and he got out of my base, waiting somewhere. i couldn't make the push to kill him without finding & killing the dt's near my base first, since they would enter the moment i left.
he then just outexpanded and outmacroed me.
conclusion: shortly after i lost the first scout, i shouldve sent another one to see his small army, then i wouldve kept the obs home, or made a forge, and slaughtered him without any problems.
so it's all about the knowing, and what latrik said is a very good trick. also, this guy delayed his 2nd gas until my scout was dead, so i really didn't see it coming. ...What? I've gone DTs plenty of times before, and if the second gas comes any later than right after core, then the DTs get very delayed. Delaying for at least 300 minerals after core is a sure-fire way to have your rush slowed by like two-three minutes. If his rush is delayed that long, and you only just got obs into his base, I think your build is slow. he had a hidden proxy and obs are very slow
Doesn't really matter. sending a single worker up the ramp to check his army would've shown you a complete lack of army. That coupled with no expansion means that he definitely took a second gas and definitely has some sort of tech coming.
And usually, the obs is out and just about in his base during a DT rush at normal timing. If your obs barely made it for delayed DTs, then your timing is way off.
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If you have detection, and you lose to DT rushes you suck. End of story. No advice can be given to make you better.
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Could we get some replays if you actually want help?
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EPT
