[H] PvZ 2 base zerg all-ins

plagiarisedwords

United Kingdom138 Posts

January 08 2011 16:03 GMT

Hi everyone,

I'm a 2300 diamond protoss and I recently watched Incontrol's coaching session and thought I would give that build/style of play a try. Up to now, I think my PvZ has been very unstructured so thanks to Khaladas and obviously Incontrol for that!

For those that didn't see the session, it is to go 3 gate then expand. In the early game, you get double gas early on and pump out 1 zealot to wall-off v zerglings then 7-8 sentries. After that, you get more zealots or stalkers depending on what the opponent gets.

Generally, it has been quite successful but I always seem to lose to roach/hydra all-ins before I can get collossus up. I'm aware that there are a ton of minor errors in my play and getting rid of them is just a matter of more practice. e.g. I know in 1 of the games my wall-off wasn't great so I needed 2 units to block. However, it would be good to know what the major things to fix are.

I've attached two replays below and my thoughts on why I lost these matches.

Scrap station
http://www.sc2replayed.com/replays/125612-1v1-protoss-zerg-scrap-station

This match, I felt it started well. I got a small force to push the enemy that allowed to me to see he was going roaches. The proxy pylon was there so I could keep pushing in case the guy was going Mutaling. Then the mistakes:

1. At this point a major mistake was that my macro slipped and I did not maynard probes to my expo at the right time.
2. I figured that the person is likely going all given number of roaches so I got cannons. I feel cannon placement was not great and not enough cannons. The cannons should cover the entrace to the destructable rocks and I perhaps should have gotten 5-6 rather than 3.
3. Bad forcefielding. I should have engaged the enemy before he got out of the channel where the destructable rocks were. That would have made cutting the enemy in half easier.
4. My macro slipped completely during the battle. The time of the battle is normally the time I drop another 1-2 gateways. However, my money was pretty low up to the point of the engagement.

Metalopolis
http://www.sc2replayed.com/replays/125611-1v1-protoss-zerg-metalopolis

This match started out OK too. I didn't know my opponent had taken the gold but I don't feel this was a big deal since his saturation was so low that I was ahead in income most of the game. Mistakes:

1. Not forcefielding when I saw a ton of roaches. I was afraid of burning my energy too fast on my sentries but actually lost units early which was bad.
2. Cannon placement and more cannons. Next time I will create a kill zone at the entrance to the natural
3. Forecfields - when he engaged, I retreated into a corner to get forcefield off more effectively. I think this was a mistake. I should just have cut his army in half at the entrance to the natural. I dont normally get 8 sentries so not used to how many forcefield I really have so am paranoid about burning them out too fast!

Basically I feel I lose this game when my nexus gets taken out so unless you disagree ignore what happens after!

Thanks a lot for any help that you can provide!

lokilokii

Australia8 Posts

January 08 2011 16:38 GMT

Hey.

I was lucky enough to have a coaching session just recently with mr incontrol about this build. (and I havn't lost a pvz in a while)

The biggest issue I see is that you're not matching the build exactly, the idea is soon as warp gates finish you build the expo, soon as the expo goes down throw down a fourth gate( you only had 3 the entire time) followed straight away by a forge then a pylon at the natural.

Then warp in more sentries. Soon as forge completes you need to start attack + 1 and throw a tower next to the pylon at the natural. Once you hit around 8-9 sentries, warp in some stalkers and start shark moding (clearning towers etc) while making probes and warping units in and rallying them into the shark group. Basically you're army cant stop moving. If he revels no real units to you while you run around the map. you need to be a little more aggressive with the army and get closer to his natural until he shows you his units.

If you see alot of speedlings, throw down 2 more gates and get a twilight and get blink even if the + 1 armour isn't complete. If you see roachs continue with build.

All the while doing this you need to throw down a robo, get an obs into your army so you can clear creep and begin the robo facility. Soon as the collosus starts you upgrade the range followed by a third nexus asap. Once you throw down you're third nexus you need to throw down 3 more gates and once you hit around 3-4 collosus. you can start to get aggressive and take a fourth.

Evark

United States44 Posts

January 08 2011 17:33 GMT

Well, I watched the replays and since the guy above me covered how you're doing the build wrong, and you covered some glaring and minor errors, I figure I'll fill in some blanks that I saw.

I think, ultimately, your lack of scouting information in both games really cost you. Took you a while to get the observer up in both games, and you didn't use it to scout, or put it with your army until much later.

In the first game, you should've threatened his natural by breaking the rocks. You were almost 2x more powerful than his roach army at that point, and the reinforcements on the way would only have matched your stuff (nevermind that roaches do well against sentries because they're only OK against stalkers at that point in the game). Instead you wasted time poking around, he reinforced to match your strength, and then you retreated. Doing nothing really to his build other than forcing him to build roaches which he was going to do soon anyway.

In the second game, that first battle cost you a lot. But what really cost you was poking too far into his roaches. On the retreat, you lost 2 sentries and perhaps a stalker in exchange for doing a little damage to one roach.200 gas in a build that calls for a lot of surviving sentries is bad news bears. Again, scouting came into play. I'm not even sure you EVER knew that he took the gold expansion, much less that it was his first and he mined it out before the game ended. Then at the end, he switched to hydras which pretty much 100% countered your army composition. The fact that they were dropped into your base at the exact moment your army was furthest from it only compounded the problem.

plagiarisedwords

United Kingdom138 Posts

January 08 2011 21:46 GMT

On January 09 2011 01:38 lokilokii wrote:

The biggest issue I see is that you're not matching the build exactly, the idea is soon as warp gates finish you build the expo, soon as the expo goes down throw down a fourth gate( you only had 3 the entire time) followed straight away by a forge then a pylon at the natural.

OK, I've watched the session again and yes I did go wrong on the build. I think if you get too many stalkers you really delay your tech with this build which is something I suffered from. I find that I just keep on running out of gas and cannot get things like robotics facility and robo bay on time. I think after a few stalkers need to make only zealots until key tech is up.

cherubim

2 Posts

January 08 2011 22:55 GMT

Dont tell me any of you paid for a coaching ... oh my god!!!!

User was temp banned for this post.

Maxxpowa

Australia2 Posts

January 08 2011 23:08 GMT

On January 09 2011 07:55 cherubim wrote:
Dont tell me any of you paid for a coaching ... oh my god!!!!

So what if they did? If they see the value for money then whats the problem with that?

Thank you to the people who have paid for that coaching and shared the knowledge - it has helped me a lot!

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[H] PvZ 2 base zerg all-ins

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