EPTI've been using a 3-gate robo build for a while, but I usually build more stalkers and immortals. This mass sentry opening seems a lot safer, and i'm gonna stick with it for a while and see how it goes.
PvZ InControl Coaching Session - Page 7
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ricochet
United States5 Posts
I've been using a 3-gate robo build for a while, but I usually build more stalkers and immortals. This mass sentry opening seems a lot safer, and i'm gonna stick with it for a while and see how it goes. | ||
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Hane
France210 Posts
My english is pretty bad so i didn't understand all but i heard so much interesting advices ! In regard to the incontrol's games and the "theory coaching", he said that's you always have to pressure a zerg, but i saw him pressure zerg only with a quite late push (~10:30 on game2). Can you prevent him from hard dronning with this build ? *o* | ||
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Xanatoss
Germany539 Posts
I knew about most of these concepts and things before that coaching session but somehow you put all pieces together in my mind and as a result all PvZ I play since that VOD feel completely different: I now feel confident facing Zerg. It is an overwhelmingly good feeling for me as competitive gamer to have such confidence into my play after I struggled against Z for so long. I was up to write a long homage but Ghostcom sumed it up perfectly. On January 11 2011 09:12 Ghostcom wrote: I would just like to say a very humble thanks! Both to the OP and especially to Incontrol for allowing this. I learned a great deal from watching it, and have seen a great deal of improvement in my own PvZ by being more aware of what Incontrol is talking about when watching my own replays. From the bottom of my heart - thank you! | ||
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iamke55
United States2806 Posts
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dLKnighT
Canada735 Posts
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skyfox0124
New Zealand1 Post
cheers | ||
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Ghostcom
Denmark4783 Posts
On January 11 2011 10:03 Hane wrote: Nice coaching and games ! My english is pretty bad so i didn't understand all but i heard so much interesting advices ! In regard to the incontrol's games and the "theory coaching", he said that's you always have to pressure a zerg, but i saw him pressure zerg only with a quite late push (~10:30 on game2). Can you prevent him from hard dronning with this build ? *o* He pressures him throughout the game... The point is that you don't have to engage to apply pressure, just moving your army around the map will make it seem like you are about to attack and the zerg will have to make units, and not drones. That's the thing they are talking about when they say "sharkmode" and "probing the waters"... | ||
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wuddersup
United States228 Posts
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Hane
France210 Posts
On January 12 2011 03:53 wuddersup wrote: Holy crap Incontrol spams so loudly, I don't know how you played hearing that the whole time! guess it was not Incontrol :o | ||
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SpinmovE
Canada119 Posts
On January 12 2011 03:53 wuddersup wrote: Holy crap Incontrol spams so loudly, I don't know how you played hearing that the whole time! He uses a mechanical keyboard, its not a big deal. Plus he mutes his microphone if you play 1v1 against him for most of the game, unless he has something to say so you don't have to hear it if you don't want to. I've had a lesson from with with 3 more coming up and I can honestly say if it wasn't for videos like this and MrBitters stream I would have never got a lesson. It's definitely a good idea on iNcontrol's part to let people stream and record their lessons with him. | ||
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kcdc
United States2311 Posts
I'm not sure I understand why you'd want to get the forge so early. With that many sentries, you're basically untouchable against straight attacks, and by getting the robo before the forge, you can have an obs for detection about the same time that your cannon would finish, so delaying the forge doesn't pose a problem against burrow roaches. I like the fast +1/+1 as much as the next person, but I find that starting the upgrades so early creates a gas crunch around the time your +1 armor finishes. To keep your upgrades on track, you need 275 gas for a twilight and +2 weapons, and this gas sink hits right when you're trying to transition to collosi which requires 200 gas for support bay, 200 gas for range, and 200 gas for your first collosus. If you want blink soon after the twilight council finishes, that's another 150 gas. By delaying the forge a bit (I've been getting my forge after my first immortal, but I don't know what's best), you can get your obs and immortal quicker, allowing you to be a bit more aggressive and take out creep tumors earlier. Perhaps more importantly, you stagger the gas crunch where you're going for +2 and collosus tech around the same time. Are you timing your collosus transition differently than I am, building a ton of zealots around this time, or am I missing something more obvious? | ||
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iChau
United States1210 Posts
On January 11 2011 13:24 iamke55 wrote: Should you automatically make the robo every game, or wait until your shark mode confirms they didn't open muta? If you see a mass of roaches. If not, you can make other things, knowing that they're no burrow shenanigans. Of course against a decent zerg, he'll bury a zergling at each of the expansion so your expansions will be late if you don't have observers. It's still good to get the robo though, very good scouting. | ||
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Shake_ please
United States18 Posts
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iamke55
United States2806 Posts
On January 12 2011 07:04 kcdc wrote: Solid build, incontrol. I've played around with this build a bit and I've done better against gas before hatch Zergs. I do have a quick question tho if you wouldn't mind helping out. I'm not sure I understand why you'd want to get the forge so early. With that many sentries, you're basically untouchable against straight attacks, and by getting the robo before the forge, you can have an obs for detection about the same time that your cannon would finish, so delaying the forge doesn't pose a problem against burrow roaches. I like the fast +1/+1 as much as the next person, but I find that starting the upgrades so early creates a gas crunch around the time your +1 armor finishes. To keep your upgrades on track, you need 275 gas for a twilight and +2 weapons, and this gas sink hits right when you're trying to transition to collosi which requires 200 gas for support bay, 200 gas for range, and 200 gas for your first collosus. If you want blink soon after the twilight council finishes, that's another 150 gas. By delaying the forge a bit (I've been getting my forge after my first immortal, but I don't know what's best), you can get your obs and immortal quicker, allowing you to be a bit more aggressive and take out creep tumors earlier. Perhaps more importantly, you stagger the gas crunch where you're going for +2 and collosus tech around the same time. Are you timing your collosus transition differently than I am, building a ton of zealots around this time, or am I missing something more obvious? You need a very early cannon for speedling runbys. Without it, you would be unable to leave your base to go pressure. Also there may be some roach/speedling all-ins that are much easier to hold if you have the cannon. | ||
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Creegz
Canada354 Posts
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kcdc
United States2311 Posts
On January 12 2011 17:21 iamke55 wrote: You need a very early cannon for speedling runbys. Without it, you would be unable to leave your base to go pressure. Also there may be some roach/speedling all-ins that are much easier to hold if you have the cannon. I suppose the cannon buys you a few extra seconds to warp in because they have to either kill the cannon or run all the way into your main. Still, I think I prefer going 4 gates, then robo, then forge. If you're really worried about an early runby, you can leave a zealot or a sentry back to wall off. I just find I never have enough gas to go straight to +2 after my +1 armor finishes. | ||
monk
United States8477 Posts
Also, to kcdc, I know the gas crunch you're talking about, so I've developed a few solutions to balance out my resources. First, I delay the twilight council to a bit later around when my 3rd is going up. Thus, my +2 upgrade approximately starts when collosi range finishes. Secondly, I pump a lot of minerals into proxy pylons, zealot harass, and cannons to defend my 3rd, dumping these resources into something more useful. In addition, I probably get my robo a bit slower than you and I find that the one robo doesn't help that much for aggression. You'll get stopped by burrowed roaches, but otherwise, the immortal comes really slow. | ||
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iChau
United States1210 Posts
On January 12 2011 17:07 ManShake wrote: What about when they go mutas from the get-go? In my experience it is the case that mutas pop out and harass before you even have a chance to enter "shark mode," (iNcontroL said it was around 10 minutes) and while you're waiting for your units to pop out to enter aforementioned mode , the zerg can very easily delay attacking you until he gets mutas, thus giving you no scouting information. IMO it seems like with this build you find out about mutas way too late and you will end up having to stay in your base all the time or get run over. I mean, yeah you're adding 2 more gates so you're up to 6, but by that point the Z can get a critical mass of mutas, add tons of speedlings, and run over you like roflwhat. You can easily move out at 9 minutes. If he has a lot of speedlings and a couple of crawlers, then he's aiming for mutas. Everytime you pressure from 9 minutes and onwards, you delay his mutalisks as he is forced to keep creating speedlings + spine crawlers or lose. If you see a lot of zerglings early game when your expo is near completion, he's usually going mutalisks. You can precede to throw down 2 gateways and finish them off with a 6 gate +1 push. Remember that mutalisks are weak in straight combat, but the zerg needs ALL his units to beat your push. | ||
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Rabbitmaster
1357 Posts
On January 06 2011 16:03 riboflavin wrote: I am watching now to see what I can learn. Thanks for sharing! Also, I hope that you got the 'okay' from InControl before posting this. Please don't take my comments too harshly or create a whole sub debate on what I am about to say(I am not trying to thread crap or anything), but he might view his coaching and the tips he shared with you his IP. Rebroadcasting that without his permission is, at minimum, BM. He seems a cool enough guy and all, so I'm sure it wouldn't even be a a big deal to him. But that is all the more reason to check with him first if you hadn't already! I think this type of VODs are the best advertising there is for incontrol/other coaches... I know that atleast i would never have considered paying for sc2 lessons before seeing one of these videos. After seeing some of them i am atleast entertaining the idea  | ||
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Stil
United Kingdom206 Posts
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