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On January 11 2011 02:55 {88}iNcontroL wrote:Show nested quote +On January 11 2011 02:08 b_unnies wrote:On January 11 2011 00:04 iChau wrote:On January 10 2011 21:16 b_unnies wrote:
im pretty interested to know why incontrol chose to continue to produce zeals since doesnt that defeatt the whole purpose of splitting up his army with forcefields? Zealots do amazing damage when they're in the enemies' face so the forcefield is just for preventing kiting. It's a better idea to put it behind the enemies' army though, imo. forcefields against Zergs is to reduce dps, zergs kiting defeats the entire purpose of roaches/hydras because they want to be running into your army not running away. why would zergs want to kite stalks/colossus when both have superior range to roaches/hydras you're suppose to forcefield zerg's army to reduce its size, so majority of it won't be attacking you, and since colossus+stalkers have superior range all of the protoss ball can attack the zerg. zealots defeats the entire purpose of the forcefields since by default they're going into the range of roaches/hydras including the ones that are behind the forcefields making zealots is good for handling lings when ff's aren't necessary OR when ff's block in their lings. Additionally I make zeals based on my gas. I am trying to conserve gas for collo/upgrades/stalkers etc.. but with 4 warpgates you will have more minerals than gas available as long as you are doing the build right so churning out zealots is a must to still grow your army but not impair the collo numbers
arent those excess mins better off being spent on expansions? btw you said 4 gates, so i guess ur doing 4 gate/2 robos on 2 bases? im pretty interested to know how you prioritize gas between colossus/ups/stalks/sentries (assuming you lost sentries and need them replaced)
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Great video! I think this kind of coaching is really cool and can be really helpful. I think its great that pros do coaching sessions and things like this but I sort of take issue with them charging for it... With all due respect I understand they have every right to charge for their services but i feel like it should be an optional sort of donation or something similar to what Day[9] does. It doesn't seem right to me to be charging $30 for a 1 hour session. What do you guys think?
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They absolutely should charge for their services. Time is not free, and they are busy people. Time out of their day to help noobs up is time away from their practice sessions. You forget: to the pros, Starcraft is a job.
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Thanks for throwing the replays up!
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iNcontroL
USA29055 Posts
On January 11 2011 03:01 b_unnies wrote:Show nested quote +On January 11 2011 02:55 {88}iNcontroL wrote:On January 11 2011 02:08 b_unnies wrote:On January 11 2011 00:04 iChau wrote:On January 10 2011 21:16 b_unnies wrote:
im pretty interested to know why incontrol chose to continue to produce zeals since doesnt that defeatt the whole purpose of splitting up his army with forcefields? Zealots do amazing damage when they're in the enemies' face so the forcefield is just for preventing kiting. It's a better idea to put it behind the enemies' army though, imo. forcefields against Zergs is to reduce dps, zergs kiting defeats the entire purpose of roaches/hydras because they want to be running into your army not running away. why would zergs want to kite stalks/colossus when both have superior range to roaches/hydras you're suppose to forcefield zerg's army to reduce its size, so majority of it won't be attacking you, and since colossus+stalkers have superior range all of the protoss ball can attack the zerg. zealots defeats the entire purpose of the forcefields since by default they're going into the range of roaches/hydras including the ones that are behind the forcefields making zealots is good for handling lings when ff's aren't necessary OR when ff's block in their lings. Additionally I make zeals based on my gas. I am trying to conserve gas for collo/upgrades/stalkers etc.. but with 4 warpgates you will have more minerals than gas available as long as you are doing the build right so churning out zealots is a must to still grow your army but not impair the collo numbers arent those excess mins better off being spent on expansions? btw you said 4 gates, so i guess ur doing 4 gate/2 robos on 2 bases? im pretty interested to know how you prioritize gas between colossus/ups/stalks/sentries (assuming you lost sentries and need them replaced)
And I now realize you haven't watched the video and you are just speculating 
Conversation over.
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On January 11 2011 03:04 HardCorey wrote:
Great video! I think this kind of coaching is really cool and can be really helpful. I think its great that pros do coaching sessions and things like this but I sort of take issue with them charging for it... With all due respect I understand they have every right to charge for their services but i feel like it should be an optional sort of donation or something similar to what Day[9] does. It doesn't seem right to me to be charging $30 for a 1 hour session. What do you guys think?
I don't agree. I wouldnt buy coaching Imyself, but if you are earning a good living and care about the game and therefore want a proven proffessional to tailor improvements to your issues (and that really is the key part) to make you better then why not charge for it if people will pay?
I agree that good starcraft advice should not be hidden content, so places like this forum and day9's daily are very good for the community, but if you want to go that extra step and get specific coaching that addresses your issues alone then it is a level above.
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On January 11 2011 03:21 {88}iNcontroL wrote:Show nested quote +On January 11 2011 03:01 b_unnies wrote:On January 11 2011 02:55 {88}iNcontroL wrote:On January 11 2011 02:08 b_unnies wrote:On January 11 2011 00:04 iChau wrote:On January 10 2011 21:16 b_unnies wrote:
im pretty interested to know why incontrol chose to continue to produce zeals since doesnt that defeatt the whole purpose of splitting up his army with forcefields? Zealots do amazing damage when they're in the enemies' face so the forcefield is just for preventing kiting. It's a better idea to put it behind the enemies' army though, imo. forcefields against Zergs is to reduce dps, zergs kiting defeats the entire purpose of roaches/hydras because they want to be running into your army not running away. why would zergs want to kite stalks/colossus when both have superior range to roaches/hydras you're suppose to forcefield zerg's army to reduce its size, so majority of it won't be attacking you, and since colossus+stalkers have superior range all of the protoss ball can attack the zerg. zealots defeats the entire purpose of the forcefields since by default they're going into the range of roaches/hydras including the ones that are behind the forcefields making zealots is good for handling lings when ff's aren't necessary OR when ff's block in their lings. Additionally I make zeals based on my gas. I am trying to conserve gas for collo/upgrades/stalkers etc.. but with 4 warpgates you will have more minerals than gas available as long as you are doing the build right so churning out zealots is a must to still grow your army but not impair the collo numbers arent those excess mins better off being spent on expansions? btw you said 4 gates, so i guess ur doing 4 gate/2 robos on 2 bases? im pretty interested to know how you prioritize gas between colossus/ups/stalks/sentries (assuming you lost sentries and need them replaced) And I now realize you haven't watched the video and you are just speculating Conversation over.
umm i did watch why else would i be posting otherwise? how else would i have known you were adding in zeals mid/endgame
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On January 11 2011 03:39 b_unnies wrote:Show nested quote +On January 11 2011 03:21 {88}iNcontroL wrote:On January 11 2011 03:01 b_unnies wrote:On January 11 2011 02:55 {88}iNcontroL wrote:On January 11 2011 02:08 b_unnies wrote:On January 11 2011 00:04 iChau wrote:On January 10 2011 21:16 b_unnies wrote:
im pretty interested to know why incontrol chose to continue to produce zeals since doesnt that defeatt the whole purpose of splitting up his army with forcefields? Zealots do amazing damage when they're in the enemies' face so the forcefield is just for preventing kiting. It's a better idea to put it behind the enemies' army though, imo. forcefields against Zergs is to reduce dps, zergs kiting defeats the entire purpose of roaches/hydras because they want to be running into your army not running away. why would zergs want to kite stalks/colossus when both have superior range to roaches/hydras you're suppose to forcefield zerg's army to reduce its size, so majority of it won't be attacking you, and since colossus+stalkers have superior range all of the protoss ball can attack the zerg. zealots defeats the entire purpose of the forcefields since by default they're going into the range of roaches/hydras including the ones that are behind the forcefields making zealots is good for handling lings when ff's aren't necessary OR when ff's block in their lings. Additionally I make zeals based on my gas. I am trying to conserve gas for collo/upgrades/stalkers etc.. but with 4 warpgates you will have more minerals than gas available as long as you are doing the build right so churning out zealots is a must to still grow your army but not impair the collo numbers arent those excess mins better off being spent on expansions? btw you said 4 gates, so i guess ur doing 4 gate/2 robos on 2 bases? im pretty interested to know how you prioritize gas between colossus/ups/stalks/sentries (assuming you lost sentries and need them replaced) And I now realize you haven't watched the video and you are just speculating Conversation over. umm i did watch why else would i be posting otherwise? how else would i have known you were adding in zeals mid/endgame
Because he clearly was on only one robo. If you watched, then you didn't pay attention to much other than his zealot incorporation
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iNcontroL
USA29055 Posts
and I specifically talk about production in terms of gateways/robos. I also talk about prioritizing gas units and explain why/when/where etc...
Never do I go double robo unless I am maxed and with 4 bases or more.
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iNcontroL, Thanks for allowing him to post this video!! It's dramatically improved my v Zerg match up!
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well i only saw you talking about it early game, but i didnt see it for for mid/endgame. anyways thxs for your help regardless
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Yo Incontrol - is your GosuCoaching.com availability accurate? (Next available early next month)?
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iNcontroL
USA29055 Posts
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man incontrol is such a suave talker, I could listen to him until Starcraft 3 is out.
This is a great example of what you can get on gosu coaching, im totally considering getting some lessons after hearing this.
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iNcontrol is the truth man!
just had a losing streak and then saw this thread. Tried to absorb what incontrol is talking about.
Went to ladder and my first opponent was zerg on LT and we spawned cross positions.
I won and when i watched the replay, i noticed a few things in my gameplay:
i had more workers mining than the zerg the entire game. Even at the point where he was on three bases, i have more workers mining the patches (even over saturating them). The income tab reflects it.
i chronoboosted more than i ever did. My nexuses didn't even reach 100 energy. Doing this did take away my attention from my scouting probes and observer, which died without me knowing what they saw lol. But i guess that's an apm thing.
The shark mode thing is great! In the replay, while my army was going for the towers to remove zerglings, he was destroying the rocks at his gold. When he saw my army, he retreated to his natural and proceeded to make roaches. My intention was not to fight but just to see his composition and i was able to do it. And he made combat units instead of drones.
Big thanks to Khaladas for posting the video, and InControl for the excellent coaching!
Seriously guys, stop nitpicking on the specifics. Games play out differently and although there's general builds to follow, you don't have to follow them to the letter!
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This was really helpful and the general gameplay ideas were really amazing and insightful, especially the times to pressure and such. My build is a bit different though, I stay on 3gates and get a stargate and super quick 4gas, then scout with Phoenix and then make Void Colossus with StalkerSentry. But the main ideas were really helpful, been helping my PvZ a lot.
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i love incontrol's coaching, thanks to you and all the guys who share their lessons with the community
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I would just like to say a very humble thanks! Both to the OP and especially to Incontrol for allowing this. I learned a great deal from watching it, and have seen a great deal of improvement in my own PvZ by being more aware of what Incontrol is talking about when watching my own replays. From the bottom of my heart - thank you!
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I love this, thank you so much. This will hopefully help me on MY PvZ. (:
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EPT
