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What is the best response for Zerg to Photon Cannons?
Specifically Early Game and Mid Game?
I'm not talking Early cannon cheese I am just saying in general. On a map today a toss took an expo and put out 15 cannons. (Fortunately he powered all of them with only 3 Pylons so I just sniped the pylons with my Mutas... He even came back and re-powered a bunch with Prism... cute) I had a lot of mutas but I still lost a bunch.
My experience is Zerglings are excessively bad at Cannons... My gut feeling is Roaches for early and mid game and broodlords for late but thought I would poll the crowd.
Thanks!
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The answer to cannons is pretty much drones. If the guy makes 15 defensive cannons, he's not attacking you for the next like 4 hours. Just power like mad.
Edit: If macro games arent your thing, just nydus into his main and kill the shit out of that. You wouldnt have to rush it on one base or anything because hes not gonna really have an army for quite some time.
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On December 16 2010 13:10 Bibbit wrote:
The answer to cannons is pretty much drones. If the guy makes 15 defensive cannons, he's not attacking you for the next like 4 hours. Just power like mad.
This is a good answer. Also if I see a forge fast expand I've been experimenting with fast broodlord tech since my current build already gets fast lair. It's not like you have to worry about an early push from the toss, and when the battle does break out he's going to be stuck primarily with Gateway units while you push BLs.
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If your opponent makes 15 cannons, the best way you can counter it is to not attack him. That way all the resources he spent on those cannons become effectively wasted. Also I would definitely expand immediately and maybe even double expand if I saw that many cannons, just because you know that with the amount of minerals he sunk into defense, he won't be able to kill your expansions any time soon.
If you are playing against a better protoss who builds a reasonable number of cannons and you feel like you need to pressure them early, roaches are definitely the way to go. Zerglings by themselves won't do much, but if you mix them in with roaches they'll help out a lot. Of course brood lords are the best unit you have vs any type of static defense, but 99% of your games won't go that long.
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yea drone up and scout. players that are foolish enough to build 10-15 cannons are probably going for some gimmicky shit like mass void ray or colossus off 2 base, so scout and counter accordingly.
Do not let them take a 3rd base.
And if you max first you should consider throwing some of your units away to snipe his army or kill probes. Once you get tier 3 you can begin your push. Brood lords will probably be the better choice in tier 3, since you can use corruptors to deal with virtually all protoss air and his colossi.
I'm not sure mutas are necessary. If he's wasted 2000 minerals on cannons already he probaby won't mind dropping another 600 worth at his mineral lines. You may's well build 5 or 6 since you're going for spire tech anyway but i don't think i'd invest heavily in them.
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Unfortunately, contaminate can target Photon Cannons but has no effect. So you're pretty much stuck with roach spam. Take advantage of burrow mechanics so you can regenerate your roaches between pushes.
Brood Lords are pretty much the Zerg's only anti turtle option. The rest must be overcome with overwhelming force.
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Every single time a protoss mass canons I win. It's a flawed strategy that only players new to the game use (I have found). Use speedlings for map control while expanding and pressure with mutas so that he makes more canons and not units while taking the whole map.
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Goddammit. Everyone keeps putting reasonable advice (brood lords eventually) and surrounding it with trash (attacking the cannons with things that arent brood lords). I will say right now, as clear as I possibly can: Do not attack 15 cannons ever.
Don't do it. Theres over 2000 dollars put into things that cannot move at all. Do literally anything other than attack it.
Though a replay would certainly be nice. I'm just picturing it as forge -> cannon -> nexus -> 14 more cannons.
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I generally expand twice when I see someone putting up that many cannons and macro to high hell.
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On December 16 2010 13:40 aeyr wrote:
Every single time a protoss mass canons I win. It's a flawed strategy that only players new to the game use (I have found). Use speedlings for map control while expanding and pressure with mutas so that he makes more canons and not units while taking the whole map.
Good way to lose if he goes for air heavy. Void ray/Phoenix denies your expansions easily and you can't break him with mutas.
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On December 16 2010 14:04 Abstinence wrote:Show nested quote +On December 16 2010 13:40 aeyr wrote:
Every single time a protoss mass canons I win. It's a flawed strategy that only players new to the game use (I have found). Use speedlings for map control while expanding and pressure with mutas so that he makes more canons and not units while taking the whole map. Good way to lose if he goes for air heavy. Void ray/Phoenix denies your expansions easily and you can't break him with mutas.
Not really, generally I push shortly after I get up 6 Mutas and use them to scout the opponent's main and do some economy harass to force some more cannons. When my mutas eye the stargates, it's fairly easy to tech switch to Hydras in response to the heavy air and hold off on spending larva until I get the den up.
Mutaling with it's map control simply allows you to scout the gimmick they are trying that really no other build can.
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Expand man. Expand!
15 cannons means 2250 minerals of defense for him and 2250 minerals of defense for you. As his army will be 2250 minerals weaker. If he built a lot of cannons he likely went for some ForgeFirst FE. Just remember, a great soft counter to Protoss FE is Zerg double expo. It is basically how pro zergs counter FF FE in SC:BW.
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EPT
