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zdarr
France375 Posts
I've been wondering lately about the use of the shield upgrade. In a few game, i've upgraded my shield, especially when i get to immortals and/or archons but i've noticed no change in the number of shield points of my units. Does this research affect existing unit properly or does it only affect the next unit you'll build? Does it affect the damage you shield absorb or his regen? | ||
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Alastor
Brazil30 Posts
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paper
13196 Posts
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Scaryman
United States70 Posts
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zdarr
France375 Posts
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GiftPflanZe
Germany623 Posts
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Kingsky
Singapore298 Posts
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GQz
Australia168 Posts
-You are massing archons (more shield than hp/ NOTE: DTs also have this except I feel that they rely less on hitpoints and more on stealth) -You are relying on some sort of a mass canon strategy fairly late into the game (shields apply to buildings) -Your army consists of a lot of air, esp. Carriers and Mothership (air units do not get ground upgrades except for shields, so it would be more beneficial than the ground armor upgrade) -You have excess money and are far ahead of your opponent production & economy-wise. (in which case, heck get everything) In all other cases (where you have mainly a ground army with not many archons), all other protoss units have at least as much hp as they do shields, so it is generally more beneficial to buff armor as it is the cheaper upgrade. Later on in the game, shields become an option after all the attack/armor upgrades. Despite all this, shields do apply to buildings, which means that it helps with drops that aim to snipe tech buildings. However, I think this helps so little that it's not worth it. Just get the armor upgrade. EDIT - I forgot to mention this but... Shields recharge quickly out of combat whereas HP does not, so for a mass blinkstalker strategy (or something along those lines), I suppose it is viable where your aim is to harass and lose only shields. | ||
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Presidenten
Sweden777 Posts
Though if you are in late game and you have a ground/air mixed up army, you might want to research shields as the upgrade affect all units with shields. | ||
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weltraumMonster
Germany62 Posts
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k43r
Poland112 Posts
Although i aways wonder why tosses who try to harrass with phoenixes\blink stalkers\dt's etc. etc. not make this upgrade. If one blink stalker get +1 shield and looses his whole shields 10 times it's obviously better to have shield upgraded not armor. | ||
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wherebugsgo
Japan10647 Posts
Usually air units take a lot more shield damage (like void rays for example) than armor damage. When I do a voidray build, I usually push with 3 rays and pressure with them, often letting one voidray get to 0 shields and then letting another take shield damage. Rarely do I actually lose a voidray in the harrass. Thus, since I see that I'll benefit from shields during the harrass, and my ground units and buildings benefit too, I often get shields doing stargate builds. In other builds, generally weapons 1 and then armor 1>2 is best, especially for robo builds. Oftentimes weapons 2 doesn't do anything, and armor 2 is really helpful for 175/175. After armor 2 you can get shields 1. | ||
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bobucles
410 Posts
Shield upgrades would be good, but the first upgrade has a painful "upgrade tax" from the first Starcraft that renders it very difficult to justify. In SC1, shields would regenerate in combat, giving double damage reduction every time a shield point regenerated. It caused a considerable issue at 3/3, where that one shield point could effectively neutralize a marine shot every second. This is no longer the case in SC2, as shields can not regenerate in combat. So there's really no reason for lvl 1 shields to cost 200/200. Perhaps with a cost reduction to 150/150, 250/250, 350/350, a shield upgrade would be more desirable. For reference, Terrans have 6 unit upgrade paths, Zerg have 5, and Protoss have 5. | ||
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Comma20
Australia138 Posts
That's a big if. | ||
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nalgene
Canada2153 Posts
Even with blink, they still take more hits than necessary due to the opposing player's units ( range 6 and above or quick MS and a lot of units focus firing. Although they could dodge the attack entirely if they blinked the moment the projectiles were still in the air (hydras/marines can't be dodged, they're instant). It's useful if you have a lot of archons... or some very good micro in combat while macroing costs 200/200 300/300 400/400 ( 900/900 total if you get level 3 ) it applies to everything, but most protoss units have more health than shields | ||
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GreEny K
Germany7312 Posts
On December 15 2010 21:10 zdarr wrote: that's what i thought, it's really a lame upgrade But it is useful, protoss shields regenerate quickly so it is like having another bar of hp that's constantly coming back. | ||
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Kerm
France467 Posts
On December 15 2010 21:26 weltraumMonster wrote: Here is the Liquipedia plasma shields article Is it me or does this says that Armor AND Shield upgrade actually do stacks a long as shields are up ? If this is the case, then i find it quite interesting to get.. Edit : on the other hand it means armor upgrade do works when shield is up and when shields are down ... Well never mind. | ||
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zdarr
France375 Posts
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Knee_of_Justice
United States388 Posts
If an attack is greater than 10 (ex: 50) and you have 3 shield upgrades, the shield upgrades are counted first, so it goes 50-3=47 which is greater than 10 so it gets reduced: no real benefit However, if it is, say a marine (6) and you have 3 shield ups, it would do only 3 damage to the shield: huge benefit If an attack does 12 damage, with 0 shield upgrades, it would normally do 10 damage, but with -3, it would do 9 damage: moderate benefit Immortals are pretty cool, but i dont think upgrading shields is really worth it. As a side note, ive always thought that archons should have a base shield armor of 1 or 2 to make them more tanky and unique. | ||
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quillian
United States318 Posts
On December 16 2010 00:40 Kerm wrote: Is it me or does this says that Armor AND Shield upgrade actually do stacks a long as shields are up ? If this is the case, then i find it quite interesting to get.. Edit : on the other hand it means armor upgrade do works when shield is up and when shields are down ... Well never mind. You misread. It only applies twice when a single attack hits both shields and hit points. "For example, a Zealot with full hit points and 5 shield remaining is attacked by a Roach. If the Zealot had no standard armor nor shield armor, the attack would do 16 damage, leaving the Zealot with 89 hit points and no shield. (5 damage to the shields, 11 to the hit points) If however the Zealot had 2 standard armor and 1 shield armor, both of these reductions are applied and the Zealot would be left with 92 hit points and 0 shields." Armor upgrade does NOT apply when shields are up, and Shield upgrade does NOT apply when shields are fully depleted. | ||
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Twitch89
Canada24 Posts
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Patriot.dlk
Sweden5462 Posts
You will need to dump minerals in cannons and zealots and your main stuff is air. Cannons, zealots and air all benefit from shields so it might be cool especially since you only stay as long as you have shields with the air before you pull away for a long time | ||
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Patriot.dlk
Sweden5462 Posts
One interesting detail: when an attack depletes a shield and starts removing hit points, both the shield armor and standard armor damage reductions are applied. | ||
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hitman133
United States1425 Posts
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Porneus
Poland68 Posts
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orotoss
United States298 Posts
The problem is the cost. The armor upgrade is much cheaper and can actually be more useful in certain situations. Against a Terran with any amount of ghosts, I would go with the shield upgrade. If you are planning an early all-in timing push, I would go with the armor, since you are only going to be having one battle and there won't be much regeneration going on. The money saved from doing armor instead of shields could go to reinforcing units. They are both useful upgrades, so ideally you will be getting both, but it seems that shields is a far more useful one, even considering the high price of the upgrade. | ||
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Tandoori
United States3 Posts
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gcoin
United States89 Posts
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McMonty
Canada379 Posts
1) They affect all units(and buildings too if im not mistaken?) 2) Shields regenerate fast in this game so while armour can only be reduced once, limiting the total number of damage reductions, shields can be reduced multiple times. This is especially important for units like stalkers that have a lot of shields, and lots of mobility to run away. especially blink stalkers! So if you fight a small army where they only can do enough damage to barely deplete your shields after you have an armour upgrade, then you avoided taking damage that you would have taken without the shield upgrade. 3) The upgrade takes the same time as an armour or weapon upgrade, so to get something that is more powerful than weapon or armour, only one structure is needed. Basically, if you are going something like a phoenix opening, or blink stalkers where you have to use either really mobile units, or air and ground units, then I recommend going shields instead of armour. For blink stalkers, go just sheilds instead of weapons, because the armour upgrade for stalkers is pitiful. | ||
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TheGiz
Canada708 Posts
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Markwerf
Netherlands3728 Posts
Almost every unit has more (or equal) amount of armor then shield. Archons are the only exception but because of their gas cost they are basically always mixed with lots of zealots who benefit from armor more. Either way a zealot and archon heavy army should focus on getting 3 attack before even considering lvl 2 armor or a shield upgrade. Stalkers and mixed ground / air armies benefit decently from shields but those armies don't benefit much from upgrades at all really (so you shouldn't even get a forge early) and they are gas heavy (so you shouldn't be upgrading much). Voidrays and phoenix both have alot more armor then shield so they don't even benefit much from it. Finally most protoss units have 1 base armor. Armor upgrades are better if they let you go from 1 to 2 instead of from 0 to 1. The only scenario where getting shield reasonably early is worth considering is when you're playing against mutaling. Muta's divide their damage by nature and do alot of hit and runs. Since their damage is 9 + 3 + 1 and your units most have 1 base armor already an additional armor upgrade will only decrease the damage by 2. A shield upgrade however decreases damage by 3 from muta. Also against muta you will often be using a gateway + phoenix mix so shield also affects your phoenix while armor only affects your ground. I'd still focus on getting 1 and probably 2 ground attack upgrades first in this case but afterwards shield is actually reasonable (if zerg continues to mass air). Cannons, pylons and probes also benefit relatively well from the shield upgrade which is relatively useful vs muta's. In every other scenario i'd go 3-2 attack & armor first before getting shield. imo shield should just be reduced to 150/150. In BW there was shield regeneration during combat making shield upgrades slightly better there, in sc2 however shield doesn't regenerate at all during most combat (it just regenerates MUCH faster out of combat) making the upgrade quite crap. | ||
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PhiliBiRD
United States2643 Posts
On December 15 2010 21:10 zdarr wrote: that's what i thought, it's really a lame upgrade its pretty good for units that have a high shield point value, definitely a little underused but its because attack and armor are 9/10 times better | ||
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Treemonkeys
United States2082 Posts
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Mystgun
Hong Kong311 Posts
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nalgene
Canada2153 Posts
Attack = 50 Shield Armor = 3 Shield HP = 20 HP Armor = 4 HP = 80 Remaining HP = 50 - 3 = 47 vs Shield HP 47 - 20 = 27 Remaining Damage 27 Remaining Damage - 4 HP Armor = 23 Remaining Damage 80 HP - 23 Remaining Damage = 57 Remaining HP HP Armor is applied if there's still damage, but not together. | ||
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stanik
Canada213 Posts
The fact that shield upgrades effect every single protoss unit and building seems to justify its cost. I would say shield level 1 research seems to be overlooked but from my analysis, in SC1 shield research at the pro level was rare and it seems as though that trend has spread to SC2. Then again the mechanic of shield regeneration differers between SC1 and SC2. In sc1 it was a steady tick whilst in SC2 there needs to be a pause of X seconds before shield regeneration starts, but the regeneartion process is orders of magnitude faster than in SC1. Said another way in SC1 shield regeneration would be akin to zerg auto heal but in SC2 shield regeneration is akin to SCV auto repair. | ||
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adius
United States249 Posts
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