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[D/H] The end of Supply Depots? - Page 9

Forum Index > StarCraft 2 Strategy
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Fanciful
Profile Joined March 2010
United States59 Posts
December 02 2010 22:48 GMT
#161
This build is very intriguing,

We all know the power of Macro in a game. If you can out produce your enemy then you need not worry about micro, an even exchange will simply put them behind.

Also, If you continue to get your upgrades you will need less units for the exchanges, leaving some left over for your next army.

There was a style of play that zergs, July specifically, used during BW called Sauron Zerg. The basic idea was to just macro and rally your production buildings to your enemy base and this "hoard" would wear down the enemy and constantly keep them on the defensive while you macro macro macro.

could we possibly see a Sauron Terran?

that would be a neat idea.
zak
Profile Joined April 2010
Korea (South)1009 Posts
December 02 2010 22:51 GMT
#162
i want to see some replays!!!
You know how to gain a victory, but not use it - maharbal
Shlowpoke
Profile Joined August 2010
United States102 Posts
December 02 2010 22:52 GMT
#163
Here's Drewbie's version of Sauron Terran vs Huk: http://day9tv.blip.tv/file/4329066/

Constant aggression and an Orbital Command every 5 minutes or so. Imo Drewbie throws the game away by refusing to make anything except Marauders, but his economy and production becomes pretty insane pretty quickly.
eloist
Profile Joined September 2010
United States1017 Posts
December 02 2010 22:54 GMT
#164
Before the supply depot before barracks change, you could get to 34 food with nearly constant production with a single supply depot with a 9 rax. You just had to use supply calldown with your second 50 energy. Would have worked beautifully with this
Chronald
Profile Joined December 2009
United States619 Posts
December 02 2010 23:30 GMT
#165
Hey I just want to say that I have been running some numbers through build optimizers, and some of the results are kind of scary, however, one of the best builds that I have come up with (not tested yet) relies on 1 supply depot and a supply calldown. This may seem counter productive, but since you need at least 12 scvs to make this viable (most calcs will come up with around 13 for 4 OCs) you can maintain the low econ for the ~30 second it takes for the 3 extra CCs to finish and the OCs to start.
Those OCs finish around 7:30 minutes given 10 marines with stim for defense.

I don't play Terran, but I can run some more calculations if Terran players want to let me know how many marines are viable to defend with. This type of build could really change maps like LT where you can easily wall of your natural with 2 CCs or 1 CC and a bunker. Imagine a late game where the Terran has 10 OCs and is just mining out bases before the opponent can expand there. O_O

However, I am not sure if I am going to share these builds with the public until I test them with properly skilled Terran friends. Please do PM me with info, so that I can get some builds to really show off this style of play.
Got that.
30to1
Profile Joined November 2010
105 Posts
December 02 2010 23:40 GMT
#166
I'm gonna include your post at top - hopefully you will get more responses.
afirlortwo
Profile Joined April 2010
United States161 Posts
December 02 2010 23:42 GMT
#167
Really interesting idea, but what are the CC vs supply build times per supply offered? That is the primary pitfall I could see for this build; you may not be able to keep up w/ the production such an economy could sustain
Just a momentary diversion on the road to the grave
PaleBlueDot
Profile Joined January 2009
United States263 Posts
December 02 2010 23:52 GMT
#168
This sounds like an amazingly flashy way to lose your games.
Veteran of pre-Masters Medivac Alamo
TOXICsc2
Profile Joined December 2010
Canada6 Posts
December 02 2010 23:57 GMT
#169
Wait till the next sc2 chronicle, when all Terran buildings including the CC can be raised or lowered. Never have to worry about space again. Just stack the CC's!
You can get much further with a smile and a gun, than with just a smile alone....
kawazu
Profile Joined May 2010
United States111 Posts
December 03 2010 00:02 GMT
#170
This doesn't work.

Mules are good but you need far too many command centers to do this.
This is a terrible terrible idea in any form of decent play.

OC is 550 minerals. That isn't cheap and the numbers people are throwing out in build orders are terrible.

For instance,
On December 03 2010 08:30 Chronald wrote:
Those OCs finish around 7:30 minutes given 10 marines with stim for defense.
.


Having 10 marines at 7:30 is not acceptable in any match up. This is an economic build that puts you behind economically.
MMello
Profile Joined October 2010
279 Posts
December 03 2010 00:05 GMT
#171
So pretty much what your trying to say is that if we attack withen the 1st 5 - 7 minutes we win against this build?.. ty for posting this build order i hope loads of ppl try it out
٩(̾●̮̮̃̾•̃̾)۶ __̴ı̴̴̡̡̡ ̡͌l̡̡̡ ̡͌l̡*̡̡ ̴̡ı̴̴̡ ̡̡͡|̲̲̲͡͡͡ ̲▫̲͡ ̲̲̲͡͡π̲̲͡͡ ̲̲͡▫̲̲͡͡ ̲|̡̡̡ ̡ ̴̡ı̴̡̡ ̡͌l̡̡̡̡.__ <- FXO Gaming house
Xanczor
Profile Blog Joined July 2010
United States254 Posts
December 03 2010 00:05 GMT
#172
Oh my god.

This is insane.

The end of Starcraft 2!!!!! (until Blizzard nerfs MULEs (nooooo))
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=100673&currentpage=22
Homerclese
Profile Joined August 2010
Australia30 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-12-03 00:11:42
December 03 2010 00:09 GMT
#173
That is some excellent theorycrafting if I do say so myself. I'm more than happy to test some builds for you on the weekend.

As for build times, Supply depots are 30 seconds, and Command Centres are 100 seconds.

what that means is that early game, while building your ridiculous 'broken' economy, throwing down command centres as food isn't exactly a bad thing, because the money you would usually spend in order to supply cap yourself is being spent on the self sustaining CC.

For anyone whos interested, some quick reference guides.

Supply Depot

+ Show Spoiler +
Food: 8 (can be 16 IMPORTANT)
Build time: 30
Cost: 100
Abilities: None
HP: 400
Armour: 1


Command Centre

+ Show Spoiler +
Food: 11
Build time: 100
Cost 400
Abilities: Orbital Command (150, 35s), Planetary Fortress (150, 150g, 50s)
HP: 1500
Armour: 1


So, considering we are all still theorycrafting, If you were to wall off with a Command Centre, you basically have 4x the amount of time before they push into your base as you would walling off with depots, so for those of you who say that this can't work, and that CC's that early cripple you...
When life gives you lemons ... Say F*** the lemons and bail.
DoubleReed
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
United States4130 Posts
December 03 2010 00:14 GMT
#174
Personally I've always wondered why terrans in general don't aggressively expand. They can usually defend with a surprisingly small amount of units, plus they have Planetary Fortresses. Yet, Terran always likes to do 1basing stuff??

I want to see terrans doing insanely aggressive expanding like a zerg player. I think it would just be impossible to deal with. MorroW was doing it while he was a terran player. Now he's zerg, and aggressively expanding isn't anything special.
P00RKID
Profile Joined December 2009
United States424 Posts
December 03 2010 00:17 GMT
#175
With a few test runs in yabot I noticed that your going to have these huge HP buildings to create very strong wall offs to protect from busts and counterattacks, and you can also float OCs around to scout , just land them when they get energy. You can basically go from expo to expo with all your OC, land them to simcity some defense, pillage all the minerals for a while, then lift off and take another expo. You can do that on maps where you have to expand towards your enemy because your army is going to be in that direction anyway to help defend.

Imagine on a map like metal, you can float extra OC to wall off the ramps on the 3rd base, or the gold, or even wall off an entire lane, and since you don't need to use those to build extra scv, your not wasting anything when floating them. They turn into really big, high HP supply depot walls that lift instead of sinking.

After you have tons of OC, you can get away with very few SCVs, making a max 200/200 army less worker heavy, using only mules for minerals and using only scvs on gas and to build.
"Does your butt hurt? 'cause you fell from heaven once the cast was over?" Artosis
bobucles
Profile Joined November 2010
410 Posts
December 03 2010 00:26 GMT
#176
MULEs could gather 10-15 minerals per run and STILL BE GOOD.
Scanner sweep could only provide vision in the graphical area, and radar detection in the extended area, and STILL BE GOOD.

Call down: supplies sucks because the other two abilities are better by over 100%.
Prophecy3
Profile Joined March 2010
Canada223 Posts
December 03 2010 00:33 GMT
#177
This is crazy, Turtle Terran x10. Set up some Ebay charged defenses, setup the CC Farms, and roflstomp the other races with a max army (or all-in I suppose but I think this is more useful late game) with 20-35% more fighting units.

I love being Terran so much. Since the dawn of SC1 we have roflstomped many an alien.
Ignorance is Bliss? Indifferance is Atrocity.
JJEOS
Profile Joined September 2010
United States127 Posts
December 03 2010 00:43 GMT
#178
OP is so fucking overly dramatic. This might sound good in theory but it won't work at high levels of game play.
If at first you don't suceed, deny you were ever apart of it.
darmousseh
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
United States3437 Posts
December 03 2010 00:54 GMT
#179
Anyone else think idra is playing the wrong race? I think its time to see the 18,22,26 orbital build and then he can complain when his opponent has a huge army harassing his orbitals instead of just playing a macro game.
Developer for http://mtgfiddle.com
30to1
Profile Joined November 2010
105 Posts
December 03 2010 01:17 GMT
#180
So I've been running some builds. I think the strongest general opening so far is to target finishing your third OC at 5:30.

At around 6:45 you should have about 6-7 rax and 4 OC.

+ Show Spoiler +

0:02.00: 50M 0G 0E 6/ 11S - Build SCV
0:19.00: 73M 0G 0E 7/ 11S - Build SCV
0:36.00: 106M 0G 0E 8/ 11S - Build SCV
0:53.00: 150M 0G 0E 9/ 11S - Build SCV
0:53.03: 100M 0G 0E 10/ 11S - Build Supply Depot
1:10.00: 91M 0G 0E 10/ 11S - Build SCV
1:27.00: 147M 0G 0E 11/ 19S - Build SCV
1:44.00: 228M 0G 0E 12/ 19S - Build SCV
2:01.00: 323M 0G 0E 13/ 19S - Build SCV
2:18.00: 429M 0G 0E 14/ 19S - Build SCV
2:20.27: 400M 0G 0E 15/ 19S - Build Command Center
2:35.00: 127M 0G 0E 15/ 19S - Build SCV
2:52.00: 243M 0G 0E 16/ 19S - Build SCV
3:09.00: 372M 0G 0E 17/ 19S - Build SCV
3:16.12: 400M 0G 0E 18/ 19S - Build Command Center
3:26.00: 98M 0G 0E 18/ 19S - Build SCV
3:35.54: 150M 0G 0E 19/ 19S - Build Barracks (Naked)
4:00.27: 268M 0G 0E 19/ 30S - Build SCV
4:00.27: 218M 0G 0E 20/ 30S - Build SCV
4:19.78: 400M 0G 0E 21/ 30S - Build Command Center
4:23.97: 50M 0G 0E 21/ 30S - Build SCV
4:28.15: 50M 0G 0E 22/ 30S - Build SCV
4:40.97: 158M 0G 0E 23/ 30S - Build Orbital Command
4:50.87: 150M 0G 0E 23/ 30S - Build Orbital Command
5:00.81: 150M 0G 0E 23/ 41S - Build Orbital Command
5:15.97: 235M 0G 50E 23/ 41S - Build SCV
5:15.97: 185M 0G 50E 24/ 41S - Calldown MULE
5:25.87: 359M 0G 6E 24/ 41S - Build SCV
5:25.87: 309M 0G 6E 25/ 41S - Calldown MULE
5:32.97: 453M 0G 10E 25/ 41S - Build SCV
5:35.81: 464M 0G 11E 26/ 41S - Build SCV
5:35.81: 414M 0G 11E 27/ 41S - Build Barracks (Naked)
5:35.81: 264M 0G 11E 27/ 41S - Build Barracks (Naked)
5:35.81: 114M 0G 11E 27/ 41S - Calldown MULE
5:42.87: 267M 0G 15E 27/ 41S - Build SCV
5:42.87: 217M 0G 15E 28/ 41S - Build Barracks (Naked)
5:46.49: 150M 0G 17E 28/ 41S - Build Barracks (Naked)
5:59.87: 315M 0G 25E 28/ 52S - Build Orbital Command
5:59.87: 165M 0G 25E 28/ 52S - Build SCV
5:59.87: 115M 0G 25E 29/ 52S - Build SCV
5:59.87: 65M 0G 25E 30/ 52S - Build SCV
6:05.13: 150M 0G 28E 31/ 52S - Build Barracks (Naked)
6:11.13: 150M 0G 31E 31/ 52S - Build Barracks (Naked)



So according to this you should have just started your 7th rax at 6:11, with your fourth OC about to complete.

I think this is a good general benchmark to begin working forward on refining. Obviously this completely neglects defense to 6 minutes but again - as a foundation I think this is a good place to start.
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