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Why so few sensor towers?

Forum Index > StarCraft 2 Strategy
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bobucles
Profile Joined November 2010
410 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-11-27 15:05:25
November 27 2010 14:55 GMT
#1
I don't understand why sensor towers are so rarely used in gameplay. Isn't scouting information the most powerful resource? With the large range it can pick up drop ships from a mile away.

One of the recent Dreamhack matches took place on Metolopolis, with both players adjacent to each other. The match had a lot of drop ship harass causing a lot of trouble(which is fairly common for that situation). It seems one sensor tower could have shut that all down!
ltortoise
Profile Joined August 2010
633 Posts
November 27 2010 14:58 GMT
#2
They cost a ton of gas, and their vision ability can be replaced by spotter unit placement (IE 1 - 2 vikings)

Sensor towers can be good, but it's the kind of structure you don't WANT to make. If you can get the same vision from stuff you already have (units) then you don't need to spend your gas on a tower.

I actually think sensor towers would be best when you're NOT on close positions (air or ground) because a lot of the fighting will be pretty much assumed to be close to one of your two bases. You don't have *THAT* much spotting to do with your units.

However, on situations like Scrap Station or Shakuras, sensor towers can be better because it starts become a bit unrealistic to spot *everything* that could be coming at you and all the directions in which this can happen.
bobucles
Profile Joined November 2010
410 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-11-27 15:10:30
November 27 2010 15:09 GMT
#3
Is 100 gas really THAT expensive?

It just seems odd to see a good drop kill 5-15 workers, maybe wipe out an expansion every now and then, only to complain that catching it in advance would have been TOO expensive.

It's an instant xel-naga for 125/100, and we know how important those are.
Chma
Profile Joined September 2010
Sweden15 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-11-27 15:21:51
November 27 2010 15:16 GMT
#4
Because they are sooo expensive for a structure that does nothing else!
I think the reason you see it so rarely in high level games is because top players like to rely on their own scouting/map control/reaction capabilities, but it definitely has it's places, just feels somewhat forgotten to me sometimes.

I agree with Itortoise's post in whole, it's better to defend with stuff that has it's uses even after the drop, even if you don't know exactly from what angle the drop/banshee is coming and he kills 2-3 workers before you fend him off with units you still are on a smaller loss than if you had built one of the costly towers.

Also, if a drop is incoming whan you are pushing out, it's not loke a sensor tower will kill off the drop/banshee/whatever anyway.

I do very much think more lower/mid terrans should could make good use of it though.

@above: 1st. It most certainly is NOT a xel naga tower. If terran could build xelnaga's I would switch races asap.

2nd. If the enemy kills 15 workers or your whole expansion I think it's more a qustion of reaction time, you either missed the drop completely or you had your troops way far away to be able to do anything about it anyway OR he dropped a huge army instead of a harrass force, in which case we're already discussing something else(in this case you might be better off countering)

Sensor towers can buy time to position yourself, they dont magically defend anything, you still have to watch your mini map to make use of it and be able to react in time.
Snowfield
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
1289 Posts
November 27 2010 15:24 GMT
#5
Sensor towers cost alot of gas yo, and you're kinda low on gas as terran.

Maybe they should give detection like turrets aswell, would atleast justify their cost a bit more
Saechiis
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
Netherlands4989 Posts
November 27 2010 15:28 GMT
#6
Building sensor towers is like morphing all your bases into Planetary Fortresses. Sure, you can do it, and yes it will make defending your mineral lines easier. But most people would rather invest that money into a banshee that can be used for agression AND spotting AND overall army strength.

Sensor towers are also easily killed and your opponent is completely aware of it's existence and it's span once it goes up. It doesn't detect invisible units and it doesn't detect what units it detects. In short, most of the sensor towers' use can be substituted by good scouting, Xel'Naga Tower possesion and intelligent building placement.
I think esports is pretty nice.
wmd221
Profile Joined November 2010
40 Posts
November 27 2010 15:28 GMT
#7
the idea with things like sensor towers and to a lesser extent missile turrets is that you're spending resources on something you can shouldn't need with proper scouting and awareness.

sensor towers are something you'll generally see later in a game where the resources are easier to allocate into things aside from production facilities/units/upgrades.

obviously mistakes happen and there are situations where they would help, but to most 'top' players the mind set is "ok i should've been there to stop that drop" not "if I had sensor tower I would've known there was a drop coming "
HoMM
Profile Joined July 2010
Estonia635 Posts
November 27 2010 15:30 GMT
#8
I think they are underrated in low level play. Obviously for high level players every little bit matters and they are good enough to not need to spend the resources for it and instead get, say, 1 more tank.
In low level play, however, I've found that sensor towers can help out a lot.
I usually get my sensor towers when I'm on 3 or 4 bases to prevent any drops or banshees or suprise attacks from catching me off guard. They have definitely helped me out way more than the small resource investment has cost me.

I'm a silver T (HoMM.998), but with a relatively high win ratio counting that I've lost a high amount of my losses due to lag, the cute "You have been dropped" message if my computer takes too long to load the game.

Also if you really don't want sensor towers due to them being a permanent immobile investment, you can just place a marine at every expansion, corner and Xel'Naga on the map (not literally but use your game sense to decide where you need them).

But yeah, get sensor towers if you're playing a macro game and you feel that your opponent may catch you off guard without them.
SC2 Masters Protoss - LoL Diamond adc/support www.twitter.com/hommlol www.youtube.com/homm87
junemermaid
Profile Joined September 2006
United States981 Posts
November 27 2010 15:31 GMT
#9
On November 28 2010 00:24 Snowfield wrote:
Sensor towers cost alot of gas yo, and you're kinda low on gas as terran.

Maybe they should give detection like turrets aswell, would atleast justify their cost a bit more


100 gas is too expensive for knowledge of a muta harass about 5 seconds before it comes and safety from pretty much all drop play?

most people i've seen, even in gsl, are floating gas like a boss, anyways.
the UMP says YER OUT
optical630
Profile Joined August 2010
United Kingdom768 Posts
November 27 2010 15:35 GMT
#10
people saying high level players are good enough to spot



yet harassment is still sucessful in pro matches. 100 gas is nothing
Sm3agol
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
United States2055 Posts
November 27 2010 15:38 GMT
#11
While i agree that with perfect play, sensor towers shouldn't be needed, lets face it, noone is playing this game perfectly yet. I have seen countless high level matches decided because of an unscouted drop/harassment, that a sensor tower would have prevented. People just need to get off their high horse and realize that they aren't perfect, and go ahead and get some scouting. If "pros" like ttone, qxc, trump, etc can lose games fairly often to a drop coming in while their army is out of position. then random platinum level n00bies will too. Sure, those resources might technically be better placed in a viking or banshee, but if you're not making money at this game......go ahead and get the sensor tower. Gas isn't THAT hard to get.
iAmJeffReY
Profile Joined August 2010
United States4262 Posts
November 27 2010 15:45 GMT
#12
It's the same reason you see them go 100 food without combat shield. It slips your mind as you play. I do it near end of games, only vs zerg. Once I get my 3rd, I throw down 2-3 of em, and push naama style with sensor towers and a slow push with tanks in tow. It actually is kinda damn deadly to stop some flanks here and there.
Unbiased biased terran abuser Jeffrey. Sorry for the rage, friend!
Altsa
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
Finland990 Posts
November 27 2010 15:48 GMT
#13
I feel like 100 gas is a steal for being safe from surprise attacks
AoD
Seide
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
United States831 Posts
November 27 2010 15:50 GMT
#14
see it decently often in TvT on maps like delta. Most other maps/MUs a good player will have good enough map awareness to not need them
One fish, two fish, red fish, blue fish.
Sapphire.lux
Profile Joined July 2010
Romania2620 Posts
November 27 2010 15:59 GMT
#15
Once mech becomes viable, sensor towers will be key.
Head Coach Park: "They should buff tanks!"
Gudeldar
Profile Joined August 2010
United States1200 Posts
November 27 2010 16:11 GMT
#16
On November 28 2010 00:24 Snowfield wrote:
Sensor towers cost alot of gas yo, and you're kinda low on gas as terran.

Maybe they should give detection like turrets aswell, would atleast justify their cost a bit more


LOL Terran is low on gas? Try playing Protoss
Marksman
Profile Blog Joined May 2009
Malaysia523 Posts
November 27 2010 16:14 GMT
#17
I use it a lot on TvT and once in TvP (Diamond League).

Sensor towers are good both offensively and defensively if you use them correctly. TvT especially if you can get a tank viking contain. Sensor towers at other avenues of approach will deter him from moving there because TvT is very dependent on unit placement as compared to other matchups of Terrans. If he moves to kill the tower, you know his position and you can take the advantage that can be game winning.

Early game yes you should not use it but once you set up a good position or push slowly, a sensor tower can be really effective. It's akin to a glass telescope as to the void ray of a glass cannon.

I live by the LoL
DyEnasTy
Profile Blog Joined October 2009
United States3714 Posts
November 27 2010 16:18 GMT
#18
On November 28 2010 00:31 junemermaid wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 28 2010 00:24 Snowfield wrote:
Sensor towers cost alot of gas yo, and you're kinda low on gas as terran.

Maybe they should give detection like turrets aswell, would atleast justify their cost a bit more


100 gas is too expensive for knowledge of a muta harass about 5 seconds before it comes and safety from pretty much all drop play?

most people i've seen, even in gsl, are floating gas like a boss, anyways.




Yes. And I think Idra even said sensor towers are underused. I sometimes forget them. But I think in all matchups they can be quite effective.

vsZ: Muta Harass
vsT: Drops
vsP: Proxy pylons near your base that warp in DT's in the backdoor on the new ladder maps and kill you (sigh).
Much better to die an awesome Terran than to live as a magic wielding fairy or a mindless sac of biological goop. -Manifesto7
jrkirby
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
United States1510 Posts
November 27 2010 16:19 GMT
#19
Because no on thinks in the middle of the game "Oh, and I want a sensor tower." The just keep macroing regular style. Almost everyone could use a couple more sensors.
wmd221
Profile Joined November 2010
40 Posts
November 27 2010 16:31 GMT
#20
On November 28 2010 00:35 optical630 wrote:
people saying high level players are good enough to spot



yet harassment is still sucessful in pro matches. 100 gas is nothing


is this not the entire point of the game to increase your ability to control and be aware of the map?

pro players aren't perfect, if they were there would be no reason to even have tournaments to begin with.
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