EPTOne of the recent Dreamhack matches took place on Metolopolis, with both players adjacent to each other. The match had a lot of drop ship harass causing a lot of trouble(which is fairly common for that situation). It seems one sensor tower could have shut that all down!
Why so few sensor towers?
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bobucles
410 Posts
One of the recent Dreamhack matches took place on Metolopolis, with both players adjacent to each other. The match had a lot of drop ship harass causing a lot of trouble(which is fairly common for that situation). It seems one sensor tower could have shut that all down! | ||
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ltortoise
633 Posts
Sensor towers can be good, but it's the kind of structure you don't WANT to make. If you can get the same vision from stuff you already have (units) then you don't need to spend your gas on a tower. I actually think sensor towers would be best when you're NOT on close positions (air or ground) because a lot of the fighting will be pretty much assumed to be close to one of your two bases. You don't have *THAT* much spotting to do with your units. However, on situations like Scrap Station or Shakuras, sensor towers can be better because it starts become a bit unrealistic to spot *everything* that could be coming at you and all the directions in which this can happen. | ||
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bobucles
410 Posts
It just seems odd to see a good drop kill 5-15 workers, maybe wipe out an expansion every now and then, only to complain that catching it in advance would have been TOO expensive. It's an instant xel-naga for 125/100, and we know how important those are. | ||
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Chma
Sweden15 Posts
I think the reason you see it so rarely in high level games is because top players like to rely on their own scouting/map control/reaction capabilities, but it definitely has it's places, just feels somewhat forgotten to me sometimes. I agree with Itortoise's post in whole, it's better to defend with stuff that has it's uses even after the drop, even if you don't know exactly from what angle the drop/banshee is coming and he kills 2-3 workers before you fend him off with units you still are on a smaller loss than if you had built one of the costly towers. Also, if a drop is incoming whan you are pushing out, it's not loke a sensor tower will kill off the drop/banshee/whatever anyway. I do very much think more lower/mid terrans should could make good use of it though. @above: 1st. It most certainly is NOT a xel naga tower. If terran could build xelnaga's I would switch races asap. 2nd. If the enemy kills 15 workers or your whole expansion I think it's more a qustion of reaction time, you either missed the drop completely or you had your troops way far away to be able to do anything about it anyway OR he dropped a huge army instead of a harrass force, in which case we're already discussing something else(in this case you might be better off countering) Sensor towers can buy time to position yourself, they dont magically defend anything, you still have to watch your mini map to make use of it and be able to react in time. | ||
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Snowfield
1289 Posts
Maybe they should give detection like turrets aswell, would atleast justify their cost a bit more | ||
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Saechiis
Netherlands4989 Posts
Sensor towers are also easily killed and your opponent is completely aware of it's existence and it's span once it goes up. It doesn't detect invisible units and it doesn't detect what units it detects. In short, most of the sensor towers' use can be substituted by good scouting, Xel'Naga Tower possesion and intelligent building placement. | ||
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wmd221
40 Posts
sensor towers are something you'll generally see later in a game where the resources are easier to allocate into things aside from production facilities/units/upgrades. obviously mistakes happen and there are situations where they would help, but to most 'top' players the mind set is "ok i should've been there to stop that drop" not "if I had sensor tower I would've known there was a drop coming " | ||
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HoMM
Estonia635 Posts
In low level play, however, I've found that sensor towers can help out a lot. I usually get my sensor towers when I'm on 3 or 4 bases to prevent any drops or banshees or suprise attacks from catching me off guard. They have definitely helped me out way more than the small resource investment has cost me. I'm a silver T (HoMM.998), but with a relatively high win ratio counting that I've lost a high amount of my losses due to lag, the cute "You have been dropped" message if my computer takes too long to load the game. Also if you really don't want sensor towers due to them being a permanent immobile investment, you can just place a marine at every expansion, corner and Xel'Naga on the map (not literally but use your game sense to decide where you need them). But yeah, get sensor towers if you're playing a macro game and you feel that your opponent may catch you off guard without them. | ||
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junemermaid
United States981 Posts
On November 28 2010 00:24 Snowfield wrote: Sensor towers cost alot of gas yo, and you're kinda low on gas as terran. Maybe they should give detection like turrets aswell, would atleast justify their cost a bit more 100 gas is too expensive for knowledge of a muta harass about 5 seconds before it comes and safety from pretty much all drop play? most people i've seen, even in gsl, are floating gas like a boss, anyways. | ||
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optical630
United Kingdom768 Posts
yet harassment is still sucessful in pro matches. 100 gas is nothing | ||
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Sm3agol
United States2055 Posts
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iAmJeffReY
United States4262 Posts
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Altsa
Finland990 Posts
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Seide
United States831 Posts
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Sapphire.lux
Romania2620 Posts
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Gudeldar
United States1200 Posts
On November 28 2010 00:24 Snowfield wrote: Sensor towers cost alot of gas yo, and you're kinda low on gas as terran. Maybe they should give detection like turrets aswell, would atleast justify their cost a bit more LOL Terran is low on gas? Try playing Protoss | ||
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Marksman
Malaysia523 Posts
Sensor towers are good both offensively and defensively if you use them correctly. TvT especially if you can get a tank viking contain. Sensor towers at other avenues of approach will deter him from moving there because TvT is very dependent on unit placement as compared to other matchups of Terrans. If he moves to kill the tower, you know his position and you can take the advantage that can be game winning. Early game yes you should not use it but once you set up a good position or push slowly, a sensor tower can be really effective. It's akin to a glass telescope as to the void ray of a glass cannon. | ||
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DyEnasTy
United States3714 Posts
On November 28 2010 00:31 junemermaid wrote: 100 gas is too expensive for knowledge of a muta harass about 5 seconds before it comes and safety from pretty much all drop play? most people i've seen, even in gsl, are floating gas like a boss, anyways. Yes. And I think Idra even said sensor towers are underused. I sometimes forget them. But I think in all matchups they can be quite effective. vsZ: Muta Harass vsT: Drops vsP: Proxy pylons near your base that warp in DT's in the backdoor on the new ladder maps and kill you (sigh). | ||
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jrkirby
United States1510 Posts
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wmd221
40 Posts
On November 28 2010 00:35 optical630 wrote: people saying high level players are good enough to spot yet harassment is still sucessful in pro matches. 100 gas is nothing is this not the entire point of the game to increase your ability to control and be aware of the map? pro players aren't perfect, if they were there would be no reason to even have tournaments to begin with. | ||
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ROOTheognis
United States4482 Posts
the only reason they are not used currently to their full extent is because it is not currently in fashion. You only see it few and far between but I believe it will be essential in a few months to a year. Someone super famous needs to use em to great success in GSL before EVERY terran will start using them. 100 gas is nothing in mid to late game. It will be ESSENTIAL as people start to exploit the immobility of terran in the future. | ||
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Niguana
United States36 Posts
On November 28 2010 00:09 bobucles wrote: Is 100 gas really THAT expensive? It just seems odd to see a good drop kill 5-15 workers, maybe wipe out an expansion every now and then, only to complain that catching it in advance would have been TOO expensive. It's an instant xel-naga for 125/100, and we know how important those are. Early-Mid game it is. There is no reason at all to not get them when you have your main and natural saturated with 20+ workers and are preparing for a third, but any earlier than that and it's cutting into your unit count. You can easily, as others said, get the same amount done with a few SCV's at Towers or in pivotal parts of the map. When you start to hit late game is when you throw down sensor towers and when it becomes crucial, especially against mobile Zerg Muta armies or creeped up Roach armies. | ||
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ducis
Canada96 Posts
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Niguana
United States36 Posts
On November 28 2010 01:48 ducis wrote: i just forget about them, no excuse. As someone else said, it's just a simple fact of not many high players utilizing them. It's a FOTM kind of deal. I guarantee if SlayerSBoxer made a sensor tower in every game he played in the GSL for a few games, everybody in ladder will start inevitably using it and it will be the cool new revolutionary T building. | ||
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uAir
United States41 Posts
Beyond that though I find no real use for them. If harass is going to happen and you don't have units to defend then you don't have units to defend. A sensor tower isn't going to change that. You're often better off getting a viking and having it sit outside on a probable intercept point with an incoming drop or something, at least you'll take out a dropship or two that way. Or if it's mutas, at least you have something there to shoot back. Sensor tower in TvT does the trick for me though as I'm usually concentrating all of my forces against all of their forces and ends in a standstill of tanks pointing cannons at each other and marines loitering around keeping an eye out for banshees and vikings poking in. In that case, sensor tower = easy alert so I can cut down on the number of marines I spread around my tank/turret line if it's of any help to me. And more often than not, three sensor towers will fully encapsulate your tank line or even the whole map so the enemy can't make any kind of drop or surprise advance or troop movement without you knowing about it and moving your tanks into position as early as possible. Also cuts down on the number of scans you waste. I suggested a chance to which they make the tower detectors. ONLY WHILE the cloaked unit is moving though. Once the cloaked unit stops the tower no longer picks it up and only detects it again when it is moving. So if they see a stray red dot moving in from the side they still have to scan it to see what it is. And it does not reveal cloaked units. It only reveals cloaked units moving on the map. ie, you'll see the little red mark of where the unit is but as soon as it stops it disappears. Even when in range of your other unit's vision. A scan is still needed to know what is there, simply having the tower only tells you when something is moving there. If an observer stops cold you lose sight of it completely until a detector comes over or you scan. If they made this change I think sensor towers would quite a bit more use. Especially in TvT and even in TvP now. Still not so sure you'd get much use out of it in TvZ. | ||
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Bonham
Canada655 Posts
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Sv1
United States204 Posts
I suppose if you're truly terrified of burrowed roaches. I think TvT is really the biggest use as a drop is always a threat. 100 gas though, if you've got it why not. Though a 50 mins for a marine/scv to stand somewhere on patrol. | ||
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.Aar
2177 Posts
And greed is good. | ||
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PhiliBiRD
United States2643 Posts
in some cases players WILl get them because those zerg/toss players DO utilize multi harassment routes and forces them to. | ||
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Buddhalol
Canada109 Posts
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universalwill
United States654 Posts
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iAmJeffReY
United States4262 Posts
I didn't know until around 1500 diamond that the enemy knew you put up a sensor tower when you do. | ||
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FakeDouble
Australia676 Posts
I think they can be very useful, it's just that I forget they exist most of the time q_q | ||
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Enervate
United States1769 Posts
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Augury
United States758 Posts
They're also easily replaced by supply depots and units. | ||
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afirlortwo
United States161 Posts
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crescendo111
11 Posts
On November 28 2010 01:18 DyEnasTy wrote: Yes. And I think Idra even said sensor towers are underused. I sometimes forget them. But I think in all matchups they can be quite effective. vsZ: Muta Harass vsT: Drops vsP: Proxy pylons near your base that warp in DT's in the backdoor on the new ladder maps and kill you (sigh). I feel you on the DT's :/ | ||
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mvpAKAenvyME
Canada179 Posts
On November 28 2010 00:16 Chma wrote: Because they are sooo expensive for a structure that does nothing else! I think the reason you see it so rarely in high level games is because top players like to rely on their own scouting/map control/reaction capabilities, but it definitely has it's places, just feels somewhat forgotten to me sometimes. I agree with Itortoise's post in whole, it's better to defend with stuff that has it's uses even after the drop, even if you don't know exactly from what angle the drop/banshee is coming and he kills 2-3 workers before you fend him off with units you still are on a smaller loss than if you had built one of the costly towers. Also, if a drop is incoming whan you are pushing out, it's not loke a sensor tower will kill off the drop/banshee/whatever anyway. I do very much think more lower/mid terrans should could make good use of it though. @above: 1st. It most certainly is NOT a xel naga tower. If terran could build xelnaga's I would switch races asap. 2nd. If the enemy kills 15 workers or your whole expansion I think it's more a qustion of reaction time, you either missed the drop completely or you had your troops way far away to be able to do anything about it anyway OR he dropped a huge army instead of a harrass force, in which case we're already discussing something else(in this case you might be better off countering) Sensor towers can buy time to position yourself, they dont magically defend anything, you still have to watch your mini map to make use of it and be able to react in time. This is right, but it's also silly in a way. Saying that player wants to rely on their own abilities is just stupid, and if they actually WANT to do that, then they aswell, are stupid. It's like making seige tanks without seige mode, and being like, "oh whatever, I can micro like a god i dont need seige mode" If you want to be the best, you have to use anything and everything that is available, obviously the sensor tower is really good, and what is 125/100 mid-late game? Especially since you could save yourself "x" amount of workers, or an expansion. It might not neeed to be placed right in your base or whatever, it could be placed as a proxy or something, but doesn't the range of it show up for the enemy once they scout it? Edit: the enemy does know when you put one up...they should get rid of that, thats totally unfair, it'd be like being able to see the range observer or overseer can detect you.. | ||
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sas911
Canada113 Posts
On November 28 2010 00:16 Chma wrote: Edit: the enemy does know when you put one up...they should get rid of that, thats totally unfair, it'd be like being able to see the range observer or overseer can detect you.. Umm no that's op though lol. It's honestly fine as is, the range is totally awesome, and it's really not that much when you have such huge armies. And to explain why not showing when they're put up is op, because other wise, terran could just sneak watch towers everywhere, while the other player doesn't know, and just see the movement of everything. Forcing every race to go on a search for watch towers is retarded, and means that even if the terran DOESN'T use watch towers, they could abuse the fact that the other race has to look for them. And showing the range an overseer detects IS cheap, because then overseers are seen easier, as there's a circle following their general location. So if they're on a cliff or something, the other player knows. Again, watch towers are like this for a reason. Btw sensor tower and xelnaga actually isn't a hell lot of difference. They both don't offer detection. And if you're ANY good of a player you should already know composition, so the only thing that matters is location. | ||
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Saechiis
Netherlands4989 Posts
If sensor towers could detect invisible units I'd build them  | ||
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hizBALLIN
United States163 Posts
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hoovehand
United Kingdom542 Posts
i think it shouldn't even be in the game at all. it's too overpowered, like maphack. | ||
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Victim
United States188 Posts
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Niguana
United States36 Posts
On November 28 2010 08:40 hoovehand wrote: sensor tower = complacency = fail. i think it shouldn't even be in the game at all. it's too overpowered, like maphack. I dont think Overlords should be in the game. It's like their supply depots but they can scout and can carry units. It's like having drop ships and map hacks at the same time, that can also morph into detectors. They're pretty overpowered, like a maphack, they should be removed. | ||
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Vandal_heart
United Kingdom88 Posts
On November 28 2010 08:24 hizBALLIN wrote: I know this is a bit off-topic, but I really feel as though sensor towers have absolutely no place in multiplayer. They're really perfectly acceptable in the single player, really Terran don't need it in the least in multiplayer. If anything, I'd rather see it added to Protoss buildings. Agree. Never really thought it belongs to terran as they can react so quickly with stim. Zerg have creep, so their reaction time from any of their bases is pretty quick too. Toss, however, can warp in units to react quickly, and thats kind of a bitch, because it infers you have the supply, the minerals and the number of gateways. And you'd better hope you have a good many gateways with the cooldown ready, because otherwise healed, stimmed mm will shred your meager number of gateway troops. But thats ok, because we have sentry :p While i'm hilariously biased i WILL admit that amuleted ht warp rocks against drops. | ||
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sikyon
Canada1045 Posts
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bkrow
Australia8532 Posts
To claim that sensor towers make you complacent well then that's something you got to figure out with your own playstyle - not a reason for people to not use them. They are an extremely underused asset; i basically view them as a luxury item and therefore are not "crucial" to the build as such, but add a great deal of cushioning to your play. It's like the mercedes of sc2  i don't see to many negatives especially when you are beyond 1/2 base play. Now if you are a pro and you need every mineral/gas to harass, pump units, go bio, thor and banshee builds; sac and then rebuild; then i understand sensor towers may not cut it into your build order.. | ||
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cannavaro
Italy86 Posts
You can also try to force some scans in similar ways. | ||
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ghanjamon
22 Posts
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Touch
Canada475 Posts
On November 28 2010 09:12 Niguana wrote: I feel the same way about Observes. 50/100 for keeping tabs on the opponent's army throughout an entire game, absolutely overpowered.I dont think Overlords should be in the game. It's like their supply depots but they can scout and can carry units. It's like having drop ships and map hacks at the same time, that can also morph into detectors. They're pretty overpowered, like a maphack, they should be removed. On to the topic...Sensor Towers are great way to make up for Terran's lack of vision. Protoss have Observers, Zerg have Overlords. Yet thit usually involves Terran going 15 minutes or beyond, and taking a third expansion for the Sensor Tower to really be effective. If it's just two base play, decent vision can be easily maintained with Supply Depots / Xel'Naga Towers. Because of the metagame, Protoss/Zerg both have a huge advantage over Terran late game, so most Terrans would prefer to keep the games aggressive and short, 2 (occasionally 3) base play is the most common in these match ups. If the meta changes, maybe you will see more Sensor Towers. They are the absolute shit in TvT. | ||
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Sv1
United States204 Posts
TBH other than drops, what is it telling you other that the opponent has units? You already know your opponent is building an army. Most maps have XNTs and if they don't, you can easily put a marine on patrol and when it gets attacked, you look at what is attacking you. 100 gas early can be: combat shelds stim factory/starport gas towards tech labs (cause we all know tech labs are free right?) armor/weapons armory fast medivac part of investment of a planetary part investment for pre-ignitor. If our discussion is about early game, you can't justify spending it. Tell me what I'd be getting by building a sensor tower early and maybe I'll agree Midgame you can afford a marine or even a hellion to scout areas, and late game, depending on how you've expanded, you should already KNOW where attacks will be coming from. Late game, your opponent should really be trying to hit your expansions rather than your main, you don't need a sensor tower to tell you that an attack may come on that. I've gained incredible amounts of information by simply holding XNTs alone, far more than whenever I've build sensor towers. and to be honest, sensor towers are extremely limited to map you're playing on. Do you really need one on steppes or blistering sands? Even LT doesn't really need them if you can take the towers. Maybe if blizzard took out the towers you'd see them, but then everyone would complain about terrans having sensor towers. | ||
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TheWarbler
United States1659 Posts
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SwizzY
United States1549 Posts
2) Late game building 3) As far as I can tell, ALOT of high level players DO implement sensor towers into their play. If they don't it's either because they are trying to hit a precise timing push, are way ahead, or if I don't think they are that good in the first place. :DD | ||
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iAmJeffReY
United States4262 Posts
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SlapMySalami
United States1060 Posts
On November 28 2010 00:16 Chma wrote: Because they are sooo expensive for a structure that does nothing else! I think the reason you see it so rarely in high level games is because top players like to rely on their own scouting/map control/reaction capabilities, but it definitely has it's places, just feels somewhat forgotten to me sometimes. I agree with Itortoise's post in whole, it's better to defend with stuff that has it's uses even after the drop, even if you don't know exactly from what angle the drop/banshee is coming and he kills 2-3 workers before you fend him off with units you still are on a smaller loss than if you had built one of the costly towers. Also, if a drop is incoming whan you are pushing out, it's not loke a sensor tower will kill off the drop/banshee/whatever anyway. I do very much think more lower/mid terrans should could make good use of it though. @above: 1st. It most certainly is NOT a xel naga tower. If terran could build xelnaga's I would switch races asap. 2nd. If the enemy kills 15 workers or your whole expansion I think it's more a qustion of reaction time, you either missed the drop completely or you had your troops way far away to be able to do anything about it anyway OR he dropped a huge army instead of a harrass force, in which case we're already discussing something else(in this case you might be better off countering) Sensor towers can buy time to position yourself, they dont magically defend anything, you still have to watch your mini map to make use of it and be able to react in time. On November 29 2010 02:40 SwizzY wrote: 1) Maps are small, what can be spotted with a sensor tower can usually be spotted with a well placed marine or viking. 2) Late game building 3) As far as I can tell, ALOT of high level players DO implement sensor towers into their play. If they don't it's either because they are trying to hit a precise timing push, are way ahead, or if I don't think they are that good in the first place. :DD ![[image loading]](http://img262.imageshack.us/img262/6717/xelnaga.png) The vision range is LARGER than a xel'naga tower. The only deciding factor is the resources and that it is destructible, but yes they can essentially build destructible xel'naga towers with the downside of not being able to see little critters or cloaked units should you have ungodly map sense. A well placed marine does not give the vision of a xel'naga tower. | ||
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Arcanewinds
United Kingdom197 Posts
Very useful to spot flanks, mutas, drops, banshees, vikings ANYTHING. You can cover pretty much any map lengthways with 3 sensor towers, and you never have to worry about being caught unawares again. (I usually put 2 turrets next to the tower vs zerg) | ||
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Genome852
United States979 Posts
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klauz619
453 Posts
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Cyber_Cheese
Australia3615 Posts
On November 28 2010 01:11 Gudeldar wrote: LOL Terran is low on gas? Try playing Protoss gas issues arent race specific, rather an indication of the amount a race is teching as for sensor towers; lurkers were removed for underuse, it amazes me blizz didnt take sensors out for underuse yet too | ||
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Parra
United States152 Posts
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PartyBiscuit
Canada4525 Posts
On November 28 2010 00:24 Snowfield wrote: Sensor towers cost alot of gas yo, and you're kinda low on gas as terran. Maybe they should give detection like turrets aswell, would atleast justify their cost a bit more Terran is probably the least gas intensive race if you're just going MMM with sprinkling some tanks here and there. | ||
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Somnolence
Lithuania127 Posts
On November 28 2010 12:12 bkrow wrote: Lol it seems that until Maka drops a sensor tower or BoxeR wins a GSL because he thwarted muta harass with sensor towers 100 gas is going to be to "expensive". If your floating the gas - drop a sensor tower, i really don't see any reason NOT to. Maka did build sensor towers when he was contained by LittleBoy. | ||
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Synneby
Sweden61 Posts
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Yoshi Kirishima
United States10325 Posts
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Koshi
Belgium38799 Posts
Atm it is only viable in TvT and TvP. | ||
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Sv1
United States204 Posts
I think it's important to understand that "underused" is due to "situational". And for people who say terran don't need gas, look at how just about every unit needs upgrades that require gas, as well as production buildings, as well as attachments, as well as 3 different trees of weapons/armory upgrades. They require as much as anyone else does. No one questions building obs because they are mobile, cloaked, and can be kept alive (within reason), and tbh provide a lot more information for their cost. A sensor tower is no different than placing a marine. Seeing the red blips on the map, is no different than hearing a "forces are underattack" and minimap ping at the location. People keep bringing up idra and his comment about it. Not to discredit him but I don't exactly go to Idra for the latest opinions of terran strategy. | ||
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TheRealDJ
United States124 Posts
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TheRealDJ
United States124 Posts
On November 29 2010 04:02 Somnolence wrote: Maka did build sensor towers when he was contained by LittleBoy. Yeah sensor towers were the reason why Maka was able to win. He was able to successfully make drops, while preventing the enemy from advancing on his expos. And this was a game he was losing early on. | ||
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Deleted User 47542
1484 Posts
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DarkPlasmaBall
United States44210 Posts
Some of the Terran strategies don't even utilize their second gas until later anyway (marine marauder?), so why not pick it up a little earlier and throw down the sensor tower when you're able to afford it? You're not going to have 3-5 units patrolling the entire radius of the sensor tower, and it does a great job of psychologically throwing off your opponents. I love warping in dts to harrass Terran mineral lines (to great success), but I'm immediately deterred if the Terran knows that the drop is coming even before I get anywhere close! | ||
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Chicane
United States7875 Posts
On November 28 2010 00:35 optical630 wrote: people saying high level players are good enough to spot yet harassment is still sucessful in pro matches. 100 gas is nothing Ya... I feel like this is the case though I'm obviously no pro. | ||
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Tyrannon
Germany113 Posts
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bobucles
410 Posts
On November 29 2010 04:40 Sv1 wrote:People keep bringing up idra and his comment about it. Not to discredit him but I don't exactly go to Idra for the latest opinions of terran strategy. I bet Idra never heard of mutalisks or nydus worms, huh?Since Protoss Stargates are so underused right now, there's no fear about some sort of Protoss ambush or drop. But like many trends, someone will find a way. | ||
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30to1
105 Posts
honestly, that people even debate against building them is ridiculous. its -incredibly- powerful. EDIT: i'm sort of drooling about how i would abuse it. i would throw one down in the middle of the map on temple or delta and force people to come to me to shut it down, so fucking good. maybe i should switch to terran - they have so many options they cant even pick one. | ||
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Bonkerz
United States831 Posts
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Holgerius
Sweden16951 Posts
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0mar
United States567 Posts
On November 29 2010 07:25 Tyrannon wrote: It dies to fast. Hp are to low to actually defend it in Keylocations or its save but doesn´t cover important area. how the hell can you kill it when it can see any incoming strike force save for cloaked units? | ||
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Lockindal
United States73 Posts
 i have started using a trick from bratOk though -- spreading out my supply depots and building a lot of turrets in late game. very useful. | ||
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Greth
Belgium318 Posts
When used properly it shuts down aerial harass, you'd have to force some kind of diversion or wait until he takes out an expansion to attack his main because otherwise the giant red flashing dots will tell him exactly how much time is left to stroll back into base and make that 800/800 muta investment pointless. Even if he doesn't, that scenario is still hopping around your brain when you enter the 'danger zone'. I might not be spot on with this, but I do know it's very naive to compare it to a normal scouting unit. If you compare it to anything, compare it to an observer with x10 the range, those are 100 gas too. | ||
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Black Gun
Germany4482 Posts
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emc
United States3088 Posts
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Malhavoc
Italy308 Posts
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yarkO
Canada810 Posts
Maybe vs other races, it's not as good. In TvP, they are quite strong. | ||
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FirstQT
United States115 Posts
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ZDuke
Australia6 Posts
ie. If you are going drop play and you opponent puts up a sensor tower, do you drop in a place where they will see it coming? or look for an other opportunity? The fact that you opponent can see its range is something you can use to your advantage, in one game I played (TvT on Lost temple) I scanned my oppoent to see a couple of medivacs, so threw up a tower which covered all of my base except the back corner, of corse thats where he tried to drop, and my vikings were ready. I didn't have to try and cover the whole base because i had a pretty good idea where the drop would come from. Towers can be very useful at "funneling" enemy forces. The reason imo that they are more common in TvT is that other races generally use drop less often. I definatly agree that early game 100gas is much better spent on a fact, starport, addons, tank, etc. but that doesn't mean that you shouldn't build them. | ||
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CHOChi
Germany73 Posts
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Dante08
Singapore4126 Posts
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Tonyoh
France218 Posts
So it still have a use, but it's obviously for late game, if you reacher 200/200 or not far from it. (because having the main destroyed for a terran means gg, very usefull to prevent drop or void/muta) | ||
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Geovu
Estonia1344 Posts
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Klishu
Malta83 Posts
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ScythedBlade
308 Posts
Also, sensor towers always tell your opponent their location, so they can just easily go in really fast (if they can of course) and snipe it ... which means you lose a very important 100 gas. Most terrans have gas cheap units (compared to Protoss), so you can imagine what those gas could've been better used for. | ||
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SoftSoap
United States170 Posts
On November 28 2010 00:28 Saechiis wrote: Building sensor towers is like morphing all your bases into Planetary Fortresses. Sure, you can do it, and yes it will make defending your mineral lines easier. But most people would rather invest that money into a banshee that can be used for agression AND spotting AND overall army strength. Sensor towers are also easily killed and your opponent is completely aware of it's existence and it's span once it goes up. It doesn't detect invisible units and it doesn't detect what units it detects. In short, most of the sensor towers' use can be substituted by good scouting, Xel'Naga Tower possesion and intelligent building placement. Well put, I agree | ||
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telfire
United States415 Posts
If Zerg had this unit I would build one or two every game. It would be completely invaluable and not making one would be really really dumb. Terran isn't Zerg, and the unit has a different place than it would, but still. It's very good, and the people complaining about how expensive it is are probably part of the reason there's absolutely no one in the world that is any good at Terran Macro games. | ||
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Psiven
United States148 Posts
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DiracMonopole
United States1555 Posts
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SCdinner
Canada516 Posts
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