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[D] Scouting cues for Zerg

Forum Index > StarCraft 2 Strategy
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Arisen
Profile Blog Joined October 2010
United States2382 Posts
November 22 2010 02:46 GMT
#1
So I looked for this with the search function but didn't find a whole lot, so I wanted to throw it to you guys. What are some cues you look for when you're scouting as zerg?

For instance, some are obvious, I.E. 4 very fast WG's means a rush is probably going to be coming, Forge first will be a FE, Really early rax w/ reactor and factory probably means hellion harass, etc.

So what are some cues you've found that will give you insight into your opponents play?
"If you're not angry, you're not paying attention"
Cyber_Cheese
Profile Blog Joined July 2010
Australia3615 Posts
November 22 2010 02:47 GMT
#2
fast rax no gas is a rax fe
The moment you lose confidence in yourself, is the moment the world loses it's confidence in you.
Eknoid4
Profile Joined October 2010
United States902 Posts
November 22 2010 03:03 GMT
#3
On November 22 2010 11:47 Cyber_Cheese wrote:
fast rax no gas is a rax fe

...or it's someone trying to be foxer.

or at lower level play it's someone with a bad build order.
If you're mad that someone else is brazenly trumpeting their beliefs with ignorance, perhaps you should be mad that you are doing it too.
theorybiscuit
Profile Joined May 2010
Canada117 Posts
November 22 2010 03:11 GMT
#4
WORKING Tech lab on factory means blue flame into thor or siege tanks. It's almost always blue flame, in my experience.

NOT WORKING Tech lab on factory means a starport swap, which could be 1 port or 2 port banshees. It could also mean he forgot about his blue flame or siege tech, in which case you'll need to scout again, either via a ramp zergling or overlord suicide.

2 rax usually means an early stim push without medivacs. Engage on creep with speedlings and a few banelings.

1 gate core with chronoboost on the core is either
a. 4 warpgate all-in (steal his gas and you'll cut down on the stalkers / sentries, allowing you to prison rape his zealots with crawlers behind evo chambers)
b. 3 warpgate expand

1 gate core with no chronoboost on the core is stargate play (or alternatively your opponent forgot chrono boost and is bad). Crank out queens and get fast hydras to deal with VR's or Phoenix.

2 gateways before core means lots of early chronoboosted zealot pressure

Hatchery first means you need to hatch first too, unless you're already going 10 pool or less. Lings arriving any later will do minimal damage to his hatch before being chased off / killed by his own lings. Now he has an expo up and you don't, which is the worst possible position to be in.

Gas before pool usually means speedling / baneling opener. Mirror to counter unless you want to block your ramp with roaches, in which case you're giving him map control until roach speed is finished.

Pool before gas usually means a roach opening. Again, mirror to counter with 1 or 2 fewer roaches blocking your ramp, or go speedling / baneling and try to abuse map control with a threatened runby if he moves out. Expo early if you went speed/bane, or when you have roach speed and burrow if you went roaches. Make an overseer when your lair finishes, keep scouting for a spire, get infestors and upgrades.

GL!
An opinion should be the result of thought, not a substitute for it. ~Jef Mallett
vlaric
Profile Blog Joined July 2007
United States412 Posts
November 22 2010 04:07 GMT
#5
i usually check to see if my opponent is building workers or not. while in the lower levels of play this is typically bad macro, once u get higher it denotes a worker cut and therefore a probable powerful allin incoming or hidden tech (esp. if there's gas but u dont see any tech buildings).

zvz scouting tells are really easy imo, because by the time the first lings+queen comes out ur opponent has to have built their tech unless they want to be behind in order to hide it.

zvt is the hardest to scout out imo, but if u can keep ur drone alive long enough to see wat they do with their next 175 or so gas (addons? factory? etc) u can get a general idea of wat to expect. early 2gas vs t is pretty much always some sort of starport play based on wat ive encountered in the past. it never hurts to send a ling to the front door to check the t's army comp or to get an overseer to scout it out as well.
Wannabe zerg player
Silidons
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
United States2813 Posts
November 22 2010 04:13 GMT
#6
1 gate core with chrono on the gate also can mean blink stalker play if you see a stalker pop out first...
"God fights on the side with the best artillery." - Napoleon Bonaparte
eth3n
Profile Joined August 2010
718 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-11-22 08:02:01
November 22 2010 08:01 GMT
#7
When do you guys think it is best to sac ovies? usually send the first around ~24, but after that i just kinda wing it and sometimes im too late
Idra Potter: I don't use avada kedavra because i have self-respect.
SteveNick
Profile Joined November 2008
United States304 Posts
November 22 2010 08:05 GMT
#8
Protoss usually has all their gateways/tech buildings up around 25-35 supply, which is a good time to sacrifice an overlord.
It's all fun and games until somebody gets 4gated.
vaLentine88
Profile Joined August 2010
United States61 Posts
November 22 2010 08:43 GMT
#9
Some good early examples:

vs. Protoss
- Check to see if he is using multiple chrono boosts on his core at the beginning (signals 4 gate)
- Sacrificial overlord ~5:45 to scout tech path

vs. Terran
- Poke lings up ramp to see marine count (low = factory, banshee tech)
- Poke lings up ramp to check for reactor vs. tech lab hellions


Go Celtics!
Lobotomist
Profile Joined May 2010
United States1541 Posts
November 22 2010 08:52 GMT
#10
+ Show Spoiler +
On November 22 2010 12:11 theorybiscuit wrote:
WORKING Tech lab on factory means blue flame into thor or siege tanks. It's almost always blue flame, in my experience.

NOT WORKING Tech lab on factory means a starport swap, which could be 1 port or 2 port banshees. It could also mean he forgot about his blue flame or siege tech, in which case you'll need to scout again, either via a ramp zergling or overlord suicide.

2 rax usually means an early stim push without medivacs. Engage on creep with speedlings and a few banelings.

1 gate core with chronoboost on the core is either
a. 4 warpgate all-in (steal his gas and you'll cut down on the stalkers / sentries, allowing you to prison rape his zealots with crawlers behind evo chambers)
b. 3 warpgate expand

1 gate core with no chronoboost on the core is stargate play (or alternatively your opponent forgot chrono boost and is bad). Crank out queens and get fast hydras to deal with VR's or Phoenix.

2 gateways before core means lots of early chronoboosted zealot pressure

Hatchery first means you need to hatch first too, unless you're already going 10 pool or less. Lings arriving any later will do minimal damage to his hatch before being chased off / killed by his own lings. Now he has an expo up and you don't, which is the worst possible position to be in.

Gas before pool usually means speedling / baneling opener. Mirror to counter unless you want to block your ramp with roaches, in which case you're giving him map control until roach speed is finished.

Pool before gas usually means a roach opening. Again, mirror to counter with 1 or 2 fewer roaches blocking your ramp, or go speedling / baneling and try to abuse map control with a threatened runby if he moves out. Expo early if you went speed/bane, or when you have roach speed and burrow if you went roaches. Make an overseer when your lair finishes, keep scouting for a spire, get infestors and upgrades.

GL!


Oh my god. That is brilliant. I totally did not think about the working tech lab on a factory vs non-working tech lab on the factory. Wow. I think I'll go through my reps to check this out.
Teching to hive too quickly isn't just a risk: it's an ultrarisk
Jumbled
Profile Joined September 2010
1543 Posts
November 22 2010 13:06 GMT
#11
Is there actually an animation difference for a tech lab that's researching? I can't remember off-hand.
DImported
Profile Joined October 2010
Australia149 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-11-22 13:47:58
November 22 2010 13:39 GMT
#12
On November 22 2010 22:06 Jumbled wrote:
Is there actually an animation difference for a tech lab that's researching? I can't remember off-hand.

Yes, the tech lab glows. If a tech lab is researching something without the building producing any units, only the tech lab glows. However, if a building with a tech lab is producing a unit, the tech lab will glow regardless of whether it is researching something. This means you won't be able to tell for certain whether a glowing starport with tech lab is making a banshee, banshee with cloak, medivac, viking, or a raven.
Cheshyr
Profile Joined November 2010
United States78 Posts
November 22 2010 15:42 GMT
#13
These are great, guys. I scout, but I'm pretty fail at turning that data into knowledge, so I'd love to see a concise list for Zerg. Are these in the Wiki?
BlasiuS
Profile Blog Joined September 2007
United States2405 Posts
November 22 2010 15:46 GMT
#14
I made a list of things to look for in zvp:

http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=169576
next week on Everybody Loves HypnoToad:
Phrencys
Profile Joined August 2010
Canada270 Posts
November 22 2010 17:50 GMT
#15
@ what time should a Zerg sac an overlord to see if opponent is going phoenix/VR or banshee?
ChickenLips
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
2912 Posts
November 22 2010 17:58 GMT
#16
See the foxer style 2 rax marine play?

Go to lair, get bane speed and +1 melee and +1 carapace if you feel like it.

Baneling bust him with a shitton of sling/bling off 3 hatch.

Collect free win.

I have yet to lose to this marine/medivac garbage lol
❤Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ✿
Arisen
Profile Blog Joined October 2010
United States2382 Posts
November 22 2010 18:04 GMT
#17
I thought I'd add a few more. Scouting a few mins into the game (20-30 food), if there are very few rines or zealots/stalkers, this probably should alert you that your opponent is going some kind of hidden tech...cloaked banshees, DT's, or Void Rays.

Vs. Zerg, allot of crawlers usually indicates the player is feeling vulnerable to aggression because he's fast teching to something (hydras, mutas).
"If you're not angry, you're not paying attention"
Arisen
Profile Blog Joined October 2010
United States2382 Posts
November 22 2010 18:11 GMT
#18
On November 23 2010 02:50 Phrencys wrote:
@ what time should a Zerg sac an overlord to see if opponent is going phoenix/VR or banshee?

Think it was stated a few times, but 5:45 is generally when his tech path will be revealed
"If you're not angry, you're not paying attention"
iheartsc2
Profile Joined November 2010
13 Posts
November 22 2010 18:13 GMT
#19
On November 23 2010 02:50 Phrencys wrote:
@ what time should a Zerg sac an overlord to see if opponent is going phoenix/VR or banshee?


Usually first banshee get starts around 5:30 so around 5mins will tell you for sure banshee or not if thats what you are worried about (will probably see starport being build close to fact w/tech lab if fact hasnt floated off yet)

If they 1gate/core->stargate for phoenix or vr harass, i noticed that i will have 4 phoenix's around 9mins. I dont know if this is slow or not (still working on my protoss) but I get a sentry before i start my stargate (so I dont die to cheese), so around 8 mins will probably show the stargate.
CookieMaker
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
Canada880 Posts
December 02 2010 21:03 GMT
#20
this is one of the most helpful things i've ever read. As a player with less experience I often have to go by feel and instinct i.e. forge-first I see where they drop the cannons and determine if they're a noob and turtling to rush voids or if they drop actual effective cannons and are early expo. Super helpful.
Micro your Macro
ishboh
Profile Joined October 2010
United States954 Posts
December 02 2010 21:09 GMT
#21
or at lower level play it's someone with a bad build order.

this can apply to anything really, no reason to mention it for low level play because those people are easy to steamroll anyway...
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