It's nice to have plenty of cliffs and doodads to support Blink play, especially if the mains/naturals are surrounded by low ground like on Jungle Basin.

lao

United States33 Posts

November 16 2010 20:36 GMT

#22

On November 17 2010 04:27 Skyro wrote:
Extra geyers.

most accurate post in the thread. mains start with 3 geysers = big favor for toss.

the other thing is, almost anything that favors P in PvZ will favor T in PvT. anything that pertains to more easily defended bases to counter mutas or drops will just favor tanks and bunkers. anything that punishes zerg for trying to take extra bases will just favor drops and terran mobility.

i think if you give a toss enough gas to get comfortably to templar or colossi off 2 bases (and thus to grab harder-to-defend 3rds) would be good.

jungle basin with 3 geyers in the main and 3 in the natural would be the best thing i can think of.

P.S. toss doesnt like cliffs. colossi walking up cliffs is dumb. when do you ever want to walk colossi out of range of your gateway units? blinking stalkers into an enemy base is also a gimmick, because you'd need an observer, and by that time, terran can tank drop you already. no thanks. cliffs benefit T in PvT way more than it does P in PvZ.

Rob28

Canada705 Posts

November 16 2010 20:47 GMT

#23

long rush distances, small blink-over gaps, low space near mineral lines (to avoid drops/raven turrets, ling run-by), close expands

Randomaccount#77123

United States5003 Posts

November 16 2010 20:48 GMT

#24

--- Nuked ---

huyNh

Canada366 Posts

November 16 2010 20:49 GMT

#25

jungle basin is the best protoss map atm. easy 1gate FE, 2 small ramps that lead to natural and to base, can warpin units from the backdoor at the natural and can easily turtle on 2 base.

kcdc

United States2311 Posts

November 16 2010 21:00 GMT

#26

Short ground distance between main and nat. Protoss lacks good air/drop harass options in the mid-game and has difficulty defending air/drop harass. P happily trades reduced blink harass effectiveness for reduced muta/drop harass effectiveness.

Also, limited air space around mineral lines. On maps like DQ, it's annoying that banshees get a safe highway around your base that you can't hit with stalkers.

Magic1264

United States60 Posts

November 16 2010 21:04 GMT

#27

On November 17 2010 04:18 Jayrod wrote:

The only time protoss is favored at the start of a match is in PvP

Actually, protoss isn't even favored in that match-up

I love playing 4v4 as protoss, and I think its because the 4v4 maps have a lot of features that just let my protoss army feel "good." My most favorite map being Megalopolis; i think this is because it has extremely close 2nd and 3rd with no cliffs, yet are contained in very wide open spaces, so i can defend with large unit arcs. In addition, large open attack routes makes for easy interception of conga lines of units trying to move, limited, easily scoutable air space makes it hard to sneak in flying dts or mutas into the base, and lastly, the main is huge, allowing for probes to sneak in unnoticed.

So, in summation, a large map with very limited air space, tightly clustered yet wide open 2nd and 3rd, and large bases all seem, in my opinion, to give the protoss a "leg up."

mizU

United States12125 Posts

November 16 2010 21:04 GMT

#28

As a Protoss, basically any map without cliffs over a natural for tank/thor drops or really big tank turtling, and maps that don't have super wide open expos for Zerg.
So for me, any map that doesn't tip heavily toward Zerg or Terran, will be a map to my favor.

GoldenH

1115 Posts

November 16 2010 21:17 GMT

#29

One of the old ICCUP maps that were transferred to starcraft 2 was really too strong for protoss I think. Heartbreak Ridge. Warp gate is soooo abuseable on this map, and there are tons of places where protoss can get a surround. Lots of cliffs for Colossus to abuse too.

-{Cake}-

United States217 Posts

November 16 2010 21:26 GMT

#30

the problem is
Terran always likes closed spaces, Zerg always likes open spaces, Toss likes open spaces against terran (short of needing a narrow choke to stay alive), but closed spaces against zerg

I'd suggest maybe a closed off ring around a wide open middle

besides that, having xel'nagas in the main to spot drops and mutas more quickly would be handy

sikyon

Canada1045 Posts

November 16 2010 21:34 GMT

#31

I would put this in the map:

Short chasms to blink across.
Lots of small ramps, esp in the center to abuse force field.
Destructible rocks next to bases to help void ray charging.
Lots of small locations where tech and pylons can be hidden.
Low number of inaccessible cliffs to avoid drops from terran.
Well placed watchtowers to deter terran drops.
Tight nat but exposed third to help toss get to lategame where storm > everything.
Ramp close to mineral line to help cannon abuse.
Close positions to help allow for 2 gate pressure if needed but tight ramps to abuse forcefield.

If you really want to make the map broken, though, place watchtowers in a position so that they can overlook the ramp and just inside the interior of the bases. This lets toss mega abuse stalker range and takes away the fact that they can't get an early high ground observer to do that normally (overlords and floating rax/fact).

Darkstar_X

United States197 Posts

November 16 2010 21:35 GMT

#32

24 minerals and 6 gas in the main
narrow paths, easy FF, Storm, and Colossus aoe
no room around back from drops on minerals

if you don't put extra money in main, expos are close together

kcdc

United States2311 Posts

November 16 2010 21:37 GMT

#33

More gas geysers per base would definitely help P. I suspect that more mineral patches per base would also help P because I think P likely loses the most to saturation. T has lower worker count than P (chronoboost) but can supersaturate with MULEs. Z expands more aggressively than P and doesn't bang its head against saturation often. Allowing more workers per base before saturation seems like it'd be a plus for P.

freetgy

1720 Posts

November 16 2010 21:40 GMT

#34

Maps that are easier defendable against Harassment/Dropships.

mordk

Chile8385 Posts

November 16 2010 21:42 GMT

#35

The problem with protoss and maps is that since toss has so many "cool" features, like warping in anywhere, blinking, climbing cliffs and forcefields, any map that favors these abilities thus being protoss favored, is instantly insanely unbalanced, generally against zerg, and not only on PvZ but also on TvZ. Kulas Ravine is the prime example imo, this map was awesome for protoss for the most part, even proxy stargates had insanely cool hiding spots, xel'naga tower high grounds were great for pylons, etc.

Reborn8u

United States1761 Posts

November 16 2010 21:48 GMT

#36

I think making a map where it is difficult to harass, and easy to defend your mineral line would be my first thought. Because Muta harass and terran hellion/mm drops are so effective when there is "air only terrain" 2 steps from every mineral on the map. Phoenix and prism drops arn't standard or nearly as popular as the other races harass. Also, having plenty of chokes is a big deal for FF. Especially a natural that can be defended with them (so many natruals are wide open to ground and air harass!) Having places where pylons outside the base can warp into the base is good too. Or places where blink can be used to get in and out of a natural would be nice to (just don't put the cliff in siege range!)

Perhaps consider making it possible for cannons to cover the main and natural minerals at the same time. (like having them backed up to the same cliff. I get so annoyed in pvz when I semi wall in, and have to get my stalkers back and forth to defend my main and natural.
Maybe even some xelnaga watch towers that can actually see all the paths into your base by air.
After all terran gets sensor towers that does this.
Also, NO ISLAND EXPANSIONS!!! IMO they heavily favor terran.
Plenty of good places to hide proxies is great as well.

Another idea id like to see is a mineral only, like on Andromeda in bw. Maybe even a gold mineral only. I think it would be interesting and unique. Only concern is it might favor mules....

Cloak

United States816 Posts

November 16 2010 21:55 GMT

#37

Lots of chokes with 1-2 Forcefield widths. Naturals where you can Forcefield trap defending forces like Xel Naga Caverns having that hole right below/above the natural. Long air distances for all positions. Being able to easily get behind mineral patches against Zerg. Short ramp to natural distance. No cliff abuse. No huge air gaps behind all the mains. Nice tight map with ground being able to reach every neck of it. Useless land bridges that have a double cliff |--| like this so Blink Stalkers can have fun all day. More opportunities to Blink into bases from different points of the edge, or proxy pylon into their base akin to Delta Quadrant. Easy and close to take third but no positional advantage offered to it like Metalopolis.

Also, every expo should bring you closer to your opponent, and if you're being aggressive, you should be able to defend all your bases relatively well as long as you hold the front, like Destination.

PhilipJWitow

29 Posts

November 16 2010 23:39 GMT

#38

I didn't see this mentioned often, in fact, only once, but I think it's really critical for there to be no air/dead space around the mineral lines. Drops are a pain in the ass for Protoss, as well as defending against Banshees, whileas Protoss doesn't really benefit from the air space (I guess Void rays are the exception, but I think it's easier for others to abuse the airspace).

Maybe make it easy to see incoming drops and make it easy to defend the air space around that area?

papaHav

Australia14 Posts

November 17 2010 01:42 GMT

#39

Xelnaga towers that can see into mains

Mains on low ground OR with grass around the edges so you can't see proxy pylons (xel naga can still look in)

Enemy main so close that a pylon can reach across (!) but ground distance further

2nd in main... but no other expansions (zerg screwed)

Mains and 2nds adjacent, against edge of map, without an obstacle between (not LT cliff). So no fliers can fly around back and ground units can easily cover both bases from air attack