|
Hi,
i wonder if someone has a idea how to deal with 8+ BCs in team games.
In 1v1 its pretty easy since BCs count will never get that high, or at least u won't let your enemy get to 8 BCs. In team games, especially 4v4 and 3v3, its different since you share resources and a terran can be 'pushed' to get out an insane number of BCs with Yamamoto pretty fast.
The obv. choice is to get corrupters and use corruption, but the Yamamoto cannon can cut down your corrupter count pretty fast, even Void rays (the hard counter) will have a hard time dealing with BCs + Yamamoto at a critical number.
Ofc in team games every power unit (e.g. muta) can be mass produced with shared resources, but i wonder if there is a efficient 'hard' counter to 8+ BCs with Yamamoto as Z
|
hydras perhaps?
edit; i would like to congratulate everyone who proposed that he uses units that he can't make (e.g.: telling him to get p and t units when title says dealing bc's as z)
|
Once you hit the critical number of battlecruisers, it is straight up unstoppable.
I do a fast expand into battlecruisers on twilight fortress (It sounds retarded, but I have used it about 13 times without a single loss at high diamond in random 2v2).
The key is in micro. Void rays get smashed by yamatto, and when fights get that big they won't even get to charge. Pheonix are obviously useless (6 damage against 5 armor) and carriers have the same problem.
Mutalisks get smashed, corruptors are similar to void rays - get raped by yamatto and honestly just melt after the critical number.
Terran has the best counters - vikings can kite but I have not had a problem. Very rarely does a person commit to 100% viking and if they try to kite the dps is so slow you can repair instantly unless they focus, and every time they come in to attack you can yamatto half of them with proper micro.
Ghosts EMP and raven seeker missile can work, but you need to micro well. I haven't had problems with ravens since you can yamato them with insane range before they can land a missile. It really just comes down to the micro.
Ground isn't even worth mentioning since the air will stack up and only fight like 10% of your army at a time.
TL;DR don't expect to beat bcs without a massive economy advantage.
|
4v4 = getting basic units
|
Rush them before they have a stacked army. Teching is always useless in team games because the higher tier units aren't that much better.
|
Feedback is nice with Voidrays in the mix. Try Vortex to cut some BCs out of the picture.
Vikings/Turrets are good and cheap.
Corruptors get bonus vs Massive.
|
Corrupters. Make sure you cast corruption. Upgrade to hive and greater spire so you can upgrade your corrupters to brood lords in case they stop massing air units.
|
Try neural parasite with corruptors.
|
I would say get corruptors and use corruption. Make sure to get in a good position by flanking and FOCUS FIRE. I'm not sure about infestors because np is only 12 seconds, though combined with corruptors should win. You should have 3 corruptors for every BC so yamato cannon shouldn't be unstoppable.
|
Corruptors are the best option, you just didn't build enough of them.
|
Technically the best counter zerg has to anything air that's dangerous and isn't carrier is mass infestor. If they have nothing but BC, you can FG them to death. It's the same with voidrays and such. With voidrays and their 250 hp it's about 8 FGS to kill them, so if you have as much money as they're willing to spend in BC, you can kill the BC cost effectively and still have a mobile offensive army of infestors to continue fighting with.
But I feel like 8+ BC can be dealt with very well with hydras too, I'm not sure of the range of bcs, but hydra plus infestor should work especially well, and since you can always use NP to drag units away from their army and into a bad position, NP + Fungal are both viable counters.
I mean, once I beat 30+ voidrays thanks to a small force of infestors as a last ditch effort, I don't think zerg has anything else that can even compete with that.
|
Corruptors work fine, I'm always amused when people make Yamato cannon out to be this mythical counter-killer. It takes a ton of energy and you can really only use it once because regening the energy required takes a millenia. You either got out-macroed or out-upgraded.
|
Take it into unit tester, One battlecruiser with any form of upgrade advantage trashes three corruptors and when you commit to mass BC you will have gotten the upgrades well in advance. Even when both sides have 3/3 the battlecruisers win alone and I have never used mass BC without going all in with repairing scvs.
The difference becomes more pronounced in larger battles because corruptors are more likely to overkill (higher damage and more of them).
Sure its theorycraft, but battlecruisers destroy equivalent value corruptors and if you throw in scvs become hilariously stronger.
|
On October 26 2010 12:49 691175002 wrote:
Take it into unit tester, One battlecruiser with any form of upgrade advantage trashes three corruptors and when you commit to mass BC you will have gotten the upgrades well in advance. Even when both sides have 3/3 the battlecruisers win alone and I have never used mass BC without going all in with repairing scvs.
The difference becomes more pronounced in larger battles because corruptors are more likely to overkill (higher damage and more of them).
Sure its theorycraft, but battlecruisers destroy equivalent value corruptors and if you throw in scvs become hilariously stronger.
Sorry but this is just wrong in every possible way.
Not counting yamato Cannon one corrupter even beats one BC all by itself (beeing as good as dead after but who cares about that) thanks to his high base armor, so even if you count yamato in for every single BC (and its kinda unlikely that all of them have that much energy available) they will still be cost efficient. Every further point in flyer carapace will just increase that even more.
This applys to every amount of BCs be it one or two or the so called "critical mass". If he has 20 BCs to yamato your corrupts ... so what? By that time you should have more than enough money to build 50 corrupors (which would still be far lower in supply and cost) the remaining 30 will take care of the BCs easily (unless you outclasses you heavily in upgrades but you really just shouldnt let that happen)
|
On October 26 2010 13:09 Icemind wrote:
Sorry but this is just wrong in every possible way.
Not counting yamato Cannon one corrupter even beats one BC all by itself (beeing as good as dead after but who cares about that) thanks to his high base armor, so even if you count yamato in for every single BC (and its kinda unlikely that all of them have that much energy available) they will still be cost efficient. Every further point in flyer carapace will just increase that even more.
This applys to every amount of BCs be it one or two or the so called "critical mass". If he has 20 BCs to yamato your corrupts ... so what? By that time you should have more than enough money to build 50 corrupors (which would still be far lower in supply and cost) the remaining 30 will take care of the BCs easily (unless you outclasses you heavily in upgrades but you really just shouldnt let that happen)
Uhhh. What???
One Corruptor will barely even scratch a BC before it dies. You need at least 3x Corruptors to his BC count to "counter" them, and even then good Yamato makes it a pretty even exchange.
Edit: Just tested it in Unit Tester.
1 BC vs 1 Corruptor (no upgrades): BC wins with 414 HP
1 BC vs 1 Corruptor (level 1 upgrades): BC wins with 406 HP
1 BC vs 1 Corruptor (level 2 upgrades): BC wins with 398 HP
1 BC vs 1 Corruptor (level 3 upgrades): BC wins with 390 HP
1 BC vs 2 Corruptors (no upgrades): BC wins with 142 HP
1 BC vs 2 Corruptor (level 1 upgrades): BC wins with 128 HP
1 BC vs 2 Corruptor (level 2 upgrades): BC wins with 110 HP
1 BC vs 2 Corruptor (level 3 upgrades): BC wins with 90 HP
There are slight variations among the results for 2 Corruptors since sometimes they get an extra shot off. But this doesn't really change the results. The BC always wins against 2 Corruptors. If we add in Corruption, then 2 Corruptors can kill 1 BC when max upgraded and "sometimes" with level 2 upgrades assuming no Yamato cannon is used.
As pertaining to the OP's question, with all abilities in play (which is likely in a team game), you would need 3x the amount of Corruptors as he has BC's to safetly "counter" him. If he's top-notch at using Yamato cannon then you will basically trade armies but its okay for you since Zerg can rebuild much faster than Terran can remake BC's.
|
1. get air armor upgrades.
2. BC's are terribly immobile and only good in large groups. Mass turrets at your base while attacking his main with a sizable ground force. Focus on starports and the fusion core.
3. Scout, you should've seen him going for BC's, This probably will give you the opportunity to take extra expos.
|
The point is that you should be to get more corrupters then a terran can get BCs. If he is somehow outmacroing you by managing and getting that many BCs when you cant get more corrupters, you've already lost.
|
On October 26 2010 13:18 Sevenofnines wrote:Show nested quote +On October 26 2010 13:09 Icemind wrote:
Sorry but this is just wrong in every possible way.
Not counting yamato Cannon one corrupter even beats one BC all by itself (beeing as good as dead after but who cares about that) thanks to his high base armor, so even if you count yamato in for every single BC (and its kinda unlikely that all of them have that much energy available) they will still be cost efficient. Every further point in flyer carapace will just increase that even more.
This applys to every amount of BCs be it one or two or the so called "critical mass". If he has 20 BCs to yamato your corrupts ... so what? By that time you should have more than enough money to build 50 corrupors (which would still be far lower in supply and cost) the remaining 30 will take care of the BCs easily (unless you outclasses you heavily in upgrades but you really just shouldnt let that happen) Uhhh. What??? One Corruptor will barely even scratch a BC before it dies. You need at least 3x Corruptors to his BC count to "counter" them, and even then good Yamato makes it a pretty even exchange. Edit: Just tested it in Unit Tester. 1 BC vs 1 Corruptor (no upgrades): BC wins with 414 HP 1 BC vs 1 Corruptor (level 1 upgrades): BC wins with 406 HP 1 BC vs 1 Corruptor (level 2 upgrades): BC wins with 398 HP 1 BC vs 1 Corruptor (level 3 upgrades): BC wins with 390 HP 1 BC vs 2 Corruptors (no upgrades): BC wins with 142 HP 1 BC vs 2 Corruptor (level 1 upgrades): BC wins with 128 HP 1 BC vs 2 Corruptor (level 2 upgrades): BC wins with 110 HP 1 BC vs 2 Corruptor (level 3 upgrades): BC wins with 90 HP There are slight variations among the results for 2 Corruptors since sometimes they get an extra shot off. But this doesn't really change the results. The BC always wins against 2 Corruptors. If we add in Corruption, then 2 Corruptors can kill 1 BC when max upgraded and "sometimes" with level 2 upgrades assuming no Yamato cannon is used. As pertaining to the OP's question, with all abilities in play (which is likely in a team game), you would need 3x the amount of Corruptors as he has BC's to safetly "counter" him. If he's top-notch at using Yamato cannon then you will basically trade armies but its okay for you since Zerg can rebuild much faster than Terran can remake BC's.
Corruption is a pretty easy ability to use vs BCs, I don't think it should've been removed from the equation in the first place, nonetheless thanks for actually doing the leg work as opposed to just spouting falsehoods.
|
There isn't that much which really counters a mass of 3/3/3 Battlecruisers. To mass them he needs to be running off an early 2-3 base unharrassed so stop that.
Maybe massed 3/3 carriers with fb upgrade?
|
If you can manage the huge gas amounts, infestor and corruptor would seem the most effective choice with neurals. However, since you're talking about team games I doubt that you're fighting BCs in a vacuum. Talking about what works well against what becomes a lot more compicated when you throw resource sharing and teammates' armies into the mix. Since the nerf to ground damage it might make sense to mix hydras and corruptors. Make sure your corruptors are able to spit on the BCs and that the hydras are upgraded.
Not a big fan of team games because of these silly possibilities but that would be my best guess.
|
|
|
|
|
|
EPT
