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South Africa3627 Posts
the game is more complex like that you should be outmacro'ing him by a lot by expanding and preventing him from macroing. you should be able to make waaaay more corruptors than he has BCs. and, even if his BCs win the fight, you should be able to build tons more corruptors to reinforce, he wont be able to build more BCs. 2 player maps are huge, if he's heading out with BCs you should be counterattacking in his base, forcing him to go back with his big slow ass units. | ||
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happyness
United States2400 Posts
On October 26 2010 12:49 691175002 wrote: Take it into unit tester, One battlecruiser with any form of upgrade advantage trashes three corruptors and when you commit to mass BC you will have gotten the upgrades well in advance. Even when both sides have 3/3 the battlecruisers win alone and I have never used mass BC without going all in with repairing scvs. The difference becomes more pronounced in larger battles because corruptors are more likely to overkill (higher damage and more of them). Sure its theorycraft, but battlecruisers destroy equivalent value corruptors and if you throw in scvs become hilariously stronger. This is a bad example. 3 corruptors vs 1 BC is VERY different than say 12 corruptors vs 4 BC's. Even if the BC's get a yamato shot off and are 1 1 upgrades ahead, the corruptors will still win handily with focus fire and using corruption (tested in unit tester). The corruptors get better by the numbers and are the best option for fighting BC's. With scv's they are good but lings can pick off those easily and if I'm not mistaken BC's will attack priority the corruptors and not the lings. | ||
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FabledIntegral
United States9232 Posts
On October 26 2010 11:22 megagoten wrote: hydras perhaps? edit; i would like to congratulate everyone who proposed that he uses units that he can't make (e.g.: telling him to get p and t units when title says dealing bc's as z) He also clearly states it's team games so it's not farfetched to assume he could send resources to a teammate. | ||
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iPoLL
Germany30 Posts
I just counted the units of my last mass BC engagement ... 11 BCs vs 27 corrupters + 2 mutas. BCs were on +2/+1, corrupters & muta on +1/+1. Corruption was casted, but i almost instantly lost 11 corrupters to yamamoto. BCs won the fight with 3 BCs left. I rebuilded 9 corrupters but he had 3 new BCs coming as well ... guess who won the fight. If u just look at the resources spent ... corrupters lose against BCs Thx for the FG and NP advice i will try that one. FG to death sounds appealing to me :D. | ||
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Rassy
Netherlands2308 Posts
Imo corruptors are terrible against bc even in a direct fight due to yamato In real game corruptors are even worse imo due to the fact that they are vulnerable to ground fire (marines/tors though probably mainly marines) wich will support the terran army Also the corruptors only goal would be to counter the bc while unable to do damage against anny of the terran ground units You can end up with alot of corruptors wich are useless and transition to bl is risky Best counter imo is mass hydra with upgrade though hydra is not great against ground mech, with tons of bc,s there shouldnt be to much ground mech though Hydra outrange bc and bc wont use yamato on them Having a bc mind controlled is also a bit annoying when playing as terran but thats a counter for wich you need to be good with micro wich i am not:p are you sure 12 corruptors win vs 4 bc,s with yamato? basicly thats 8 corruptors vs 4 bc,s (wich i asume dont get repaired ?) to get all units firing dont a-move to the bc but first move all units in range of the bc then a | ||
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Genesis128
Norway103 Posts
What I instead would like to propose is mass infested terran. Sneak 8 BC's worth of infestors under the battlecruisers and while burrowed throw up a bajillion infested marines. They would all spawn within firing range and you would get 8 from each infestor. You could even throw down a fungal growth to prevent escaping just to be on the safe side. | ||
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bobcat
United States488 Posts
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DaemonX
545 Posts
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Kyhol
Canada2574 Posts
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Alphasquad
Austria505 Posts
im not even talking about costs or something but usually the T will make BC from 2 starports while you can get corruptors or hydras in large numbers quickly, the advantage of hydras is definitely that yamato guns arent pretty much of a waste | ||
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n3mo
United States298 Posts
if you must though, the things i am always wary of with BCS: -unburrow and hope you can NP faster than i can react (and yamato the other BCs once its under your control) -mass hydras. and i mean a LOT of them, since BCs do take down hydras pretty well. never engage off creep or with PDD around, if at all possible. since you're in a team game, some other options: -corruptor + medivacs; he can't yamato them all -blink stalkers in -unlikely, but if you can catch a few in a mothership vortex, and take care of the other half before they come back. oh, and also. BCs are slow as balls. if you don't have to, don't engage them, just destroy other parts of his base/other bases. | ||
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iPoLL
Germany30 Posts
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FabledIntegral
United States9232 Posts
Also you said "look at resources spent." 11 BC's also cost more than 27 corrupters and 2 mutas. 11 BC = 4400/3300 27 Corrupter + 2 mutas = 4250/2900 He also had better upgrades + later tech. And they take forever to make (reemphasizing) while you can get them asap. | ||
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sikyon
Canada1045 Posts
If he's spread out at all you can also chain FG him and use a hydra ball to kill him. The BC's will have to fight 2 at a time against however many hydras you can concave him with. | ||
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iPoLL
Germany30 Posts
On October 27 2010 02:53 FabledIntegral wrote: Corrupters are a good counter when you take into consideration they are faster than BC's. You can pick when you want to fight. BC's are also a capital ship which take a longass time to build (admittedly shorter in team games) and are slow as hell. And you can scout BC's and make a ton of corrupters to compensate. Also you said "look at resources spent." 11 BC's also cost more than 27 corrupters and 2 mutas. 11 BC = 4400/3300 27 Corrupter + 2 mutas = 4250/2900 He also had better upgrades + later tech. And they take forever to make (reemphasizing) while you can get them asap. Yeah i just tested them again ... corrupters are the best answer to BCs, but u have to catch up in the upgrades. BCs have a very high rate of fire so attack upgrades are really worth their money. Corrupters have to even out BC attack upgrades with their armor upgrades. With 8+ BCs on the field u roughly need about 2.5 corrupters per BC (Yamamoto was taken into consideration). Btw. infestors and hydras don't do very well against 8+ BCs. | ||
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hedgefund
45 Posts
a) Corruptors can "corrupt" the BCs, which are so few in number that you can imagine this being feasible. This increases the damage they take heavily. b) You can Fungal Growth them. c) Hydras are way more useful, generally, and with BCs we aren't worried about footspeed of Hydras really. Though at this point in the game you should have a creep highway. | ||
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happyness
United States2400 Posts
On October 27 2010 03:00 iPoLL wrote: Yeah i just tested them again ... corrupters are the best answer to BCs, but u have to catch up in the upgrades. BCs have a very high rate of fire so attack upgrades are really worth their money. Corrupters have to even out BC attack upgrades with their armor upgrades. With 8+ BCs on the field u roughly need about 2.5 corrupters per BC (Yamamoto was taken into consideration). Btw. infestors and hydras don't do very well against 8+ BCs. Also are you making sure to flank that big mass of BC's? They are really slow, so it would be hard for them to get in a good position. But hey, I don't play team games much, and from the sound of it sharing resources really messes up the balance. And yes, even with the ground damage nerf, Hydras are still awful against BC's | ||
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TheSambassador
United States186 Posts
Without Yamato cannon, 3 corruptors (which cost 50 more minerals than BCs and the same amount of gas) should be able to take out one BC without ANY losses with Micro and only 1 lost corruptor with attack-move. BCs = 450 health, 3(+1) armor, 400 minerals, 300 gas, Corruptors = 200 health 2(+1) armor, 150 minerals, 100 gas (3 corruptors = 450/300) BCs have a low-damage high speed attack of 6(+1) vs air with an attack cooldown of .225. Vs the corruptors' 2 armor, that's 4 / .224 = 17.85 DPS, taking 11.2 seconds to kill a corruptor. Corruptors do 20 damage per shot (to massive units) with an attack cooldown of 1.9. Vs the BC's 3 armor, that's 17/1.9 = 11.20 DPS, though if you add corruption it's (20*1.2 - 3) / 1.9 = 11.57 DPS, taking 38.89 seconds to kill a BC. If you have 3 corruptors and the BC is corrupted, it should take 12.96 seconds to kill the BC, which is only enough time for the BC to kill ONE corruptor. Given corruptor's faster speed, you could easily micro away a low-health corruptor before it dies and kill the BC with no losses. Obviously, with yamato cannon, things become a bit different. Assuming the Yamato cannon kills off one corruptor before the fight begins, it takes 2 corruptors 19.445 seconds to kill the battlecruiser. With micro this should be doable, but both corruptors would be in the red. If the terran player has even one or two SCVs repairing, it seems like corruptors suck. Attack upgrades for corruptors help a little bit, as each one gives +2 damage vs massive, making the armor of the BC a little less problematic. | ||
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DoubleReed
United States4130 Posts
Queens are superior to hydralisks against air units in almost every way. Especially against battlecruisers and carriers. The reason is that they have a lot more health and have transfusions. Hydralisks will die mighty fast to the battlecruisers and carriers because they no longer have roaches in front of them to take the hits. Obviously lots of battlecruisers you don't have a choice except for corruptors. Corruptor/Queens is the most cost effective way to beat it. Keep in mind that you can make corruptors much faster than he can make battlecruisers. So once you've beaten some, you can usually hold onto air control pretty definitively thereafter. Don't be afraid of getting too many corruptors. | ||
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