I think many players that are terran are looking at this strategy a different way. for Terran it's a better advantage late to midgame because it allows for ur army to be mobile --thus giving u the ability to expand and protect your expos better without getting runned over by a protoss army of zealots or whatnot. also, i would say that for terran, players shouldn't think of this as an ALWAYS win situation but it's a great opener because it'll force the protoss to make units that almost do nothing in offense to their army which gives ur army the advantage because it'll be limiting -- 3 observers = 1 1/2 colossus or 3 immortals whichever ur opponent decides to get. this will buy us enough time to tech to tanks and start to lean towards what terran does best when in a good position; to contain.

ensis

Germany340 Posts

October 25 2010 18:12 GMT

#44

hmmm, so pvt really seems to develop into killing nexus with marauders and gateways with nukes, while 2 hellions destry the ecoline in 2 secs. dont like the way it goes.

0c3LoT

Canada162 Posts

October 25 2010 18:17 GMT

#45

On October 26 2010 01:48 Markwerf wrote:
This is the best way to use nuke's imo. It isn't really viable as a straight up build though but more as a gimmick you use when toss has his buildings clusted. The early investment in cloak and a 2nd ghost academy is simply too much if the game is any close and he pushes you.
Also there are a fair bit of ways for protoss to stop this. Observers and cannons are the most obvious ones and can really ruin your day but there are other tricks for toss to stop it as well. Double storm on the cloaked ghosts is one way for example, but it's also possible to interrupt a nuke launch with forcefield if the ghost is at (near) maximum range.

Lots of times you'll be able to get 3 gateways + 3 pylons max or so which isn't enough for it to really pay off. You need a extra ghost academy, 2 nukes and probably the sacrifice of 2 ghosts to pull if off.
3 gateways, 3 pylons = 750m. Extra ghost academy, 2 nukes and 2 ghosts = 700m 550g.

I only think this is worth it if you are notice at least 800 minerals of buildings bunched up and can do this relatively safely, ie. not losing your ghosts etc. I simply don't think any build that actively tries to do this is any good as in so many games it simply sucks, if they have a obs or cannon near their natural it is quite unlikely you walk in so easily for example.

3 gateways and 3 pylons actually does pay off in the time he needs to spend building them again and turning them into warpgates. Not to mention he may get supply blocked from those 3 pylons. That's when you attack and he won't be able to reinforce as well.

I've used similar builds before and it's not an all in, especially with the FE.

Phrencys

Canada270 Posts

October 25 2010 18:19 GMT

#46

On October 26 2010 03:02 ahcho00 wrote:
this will buy us enough time to tech to tanks and start to lean towards what terran does best when in a good position; to contain.

Or just be a d1ck and turtle on 2-3 bases while sending ghost commandos dump 4academies worth of nuclear load.

The power of the nukes is not even how they can 2shot buildings, it's how they will make your opponent freak the hell out. Playing against a skilled nuke user is like trying to fight against a god damn ninja in the dark. It's helluva frustrating, and you never actually feel safe enough to push. This will cause players to either to tilt and do stupid all-in pushes vs your turtled towns or to turtle themselves behind loads of detectors; giving you map control. Because let's face it. as long as you got ghost, with or without medvacs, you can gain map control even if most of your army stays at home.

avilo

United States4100 Posts

October 25 2010 18:31 GMT

#47

Used to do this alot when tanks were viable vs P...but yeah...too much gas needed for this now vs good Protoss.

It has some potential though

HeadLikeAHole

United States14 Posts

October 25 2010 20:03 GMT

#48

I updated the replays to show some more diverse Protoss builds. Looking through my replays, most of my losses are against 4 warpgate timing pushes. I'd recommend 1-2 extra bunkers to defend against those.

sOAvoid

Canada206 Posts

October 26 2010 08:00 GMT

#49

... i dont think your playing vs very many... whats a diplomatic term,,,, good toss ;?

Thezzy

Netherlands2117 Posts

October 26 2010 08:17 GMT

#50

Risky, as a solid gate push will probably kill you, getting the Ghost Academy, two nukes, two ghosts and Cloak is very gas heavy and you'll have atleast one Barracks unavailable for a bit to produce the Ghosts.

If you can keep up the nukes and stay alive I imagine it can be quite devastating, when I 2v2 with my Protoss ally, he always clumps his warp gates.

jacosajh

2919 Posts

October 26 2010 08:23 GMT

#51

Seems interesting and fun, but looks like it takes more work than playing standard :-/

Maybe I'll grind this out after I get bored with other builds.

Right now, it seems that while Nukes are alot more viable than in SC1, why not just implement them into your late game instead of planning your entire game around it?

woowoo

France164 Posts

October 26 2010 11:31 GMT

#52

When going nukes, I like to use a couple of reapers as bait, they shoot probes, enemy units come to protect probes, they don't notice the red dot in the fight, enemy army and probes toasted, you can also use 1 reaper to spot high ground for a nuke, you don't waste a scan the enemy will see.

Snowfield

1289 Posts

October 26 2010 12:05 GMT

#53

Loved the video lol, should try to use more nukes

HeadLikeAHole

United States14 Posts

October 26 2010 17:45 GMT

#54

Since people really liked the first video, I made a couple more:

Heresy TvP, Part II

FE Double Nuke Build Order

Prophecy3

Canada223 Posts

October 26 2010 18:16 GMT

#55

lol, #2 is awesome. Good music picks too.

.Aar

2177 Posts

October 26 2010 19:11 GMT

#56

On October 26 2010 03:12 ensis wrote:
hmmm, so pvt really seems to develop into killing nexus with marauders and gateways with nukes, while 2 hellions destry the ecoline in 2 secs. dont like the way it goes.

Or a Protoss player could, you know, stick a single cannon near their ramp, have an observer around, and have a few Stalkers to defend the line.

Just a suggestion.

Kryptix

United States138 Posts

October 26 2010 20:21 GMT

#57

Man I want to try this now, but it just seems like a blind 4 gate would crush you with that opening... I guess you can scout it but by then you have committed to the FE and you used your first rax to build 2 addons instead of units so your way behind on men if they hit you with a 5-6 minute proxy pylon 4 gate...

Khaladas

United States223 Posts

October 26 2010 20:32 GMT

#58

Love the videos.

You will pay for what you have done to the protoss!