Take IdrA for example. Harassing the terran player with about 9 mutalisks, stumbles upon one missile turret ...and backs off. I takes exactly 30hp off one of your mutas if you attack a turret with 9 mutas, yet that's apparently enough to scare him away?

This seems to be the trend in a lot of replays I see of pro-gamers. For some reason people on ladder are dumber/smarter and actually destroy the turret and continue to harass the fuck out of your workers anyway (and force your army to defend).

Don't get me wrong though, I would love to be able to defend my bases with just one turret, but on ladder, zerg just aren't buying it. :|

Cybren

United States206 Posts

October 17 2010 22:56 GMT

Because losing a muta if he stims some marines in to maybe take out a turret isn't that good a deal when you can find a spot with no turret.

Mutalisks are real sensitive. It's very easy to make them mad. And if a flock of mutalisks gets mad, they'll all fly into the enemies marines and thors

vyyye

Sweden3917 Posts

October 17 2010 22:58 GMT

If you have 9 mutas and attack a turret in the mineral line all your mutas will be dead due to repair. You need an absurd number of mutas to kill a turret that can be surrounded for repairs. You'll probably be better off picking off a supply depot than hoping you have enough time to take down the turret AND focus SCVs before his marines appear.

If you haven't noticed no one gives a rats arse about two cannons in the mineral line, Z users generally just kill them. They still do quite a bit of damage (not as much as turrets of course), but as they can't be repaired they're easy pickings. So yeah, the reason is summed up in the word "repair".

gr8ape

Canada302 Posts

October 17 2010 22:58 GMT

Turrets in sc2 are operated by clones of chuck norris

srsly it takes 9 mutas to make attacking a turret cost effective

storm44

1293 Posts

October 17 2010 22:59 GMT

turrets are ridiculously strong in sc2. I think like 3 hits kill an observer and they shoot pretty damn fast

iEchoic

United States1776 Posts

October 17 2010 23:00 GMT

I agree with you, and I've been saying this for a while. Zerg players have an irrational fear of anything that shoots air. I've played against high-level zerg players who will run 12 mutas from one lone, misplaced thor. As you said, they do the same with turrets.

Yuan

United States2 Posts

October 17 2010 23:01 GMT

The longer the zerg spends trying to take out the turret, the longer the terran has to get units over there and wreck his shit. Also, the turret can be repaired, which makes it last even longer and do more damage to the mutas.

Raislin

United States144 Posts

October 17 2010 23:04 GMT

I don't think the OP was referring specifically to Turrets in the mineral line. In the MLG finals, IdrA prevented a turret from going up by a fraction of a second (it actually looked finished) and backed off when the army came. Later on, he came across it again...undefended. He certainly could have killed it and then become even more annoying than he already was.

It's like iEchoic said, Zergs seem to run away from single, vulnerable things that shoot up.

Akuemon

Canada151 Posts

October 17 2010 23:09 GMT

I pick off lone turrets, but seriously 3 turrets near the mineral line takes so many mutalisks to mkae it a good trade it isnt worth it. Turrets in SC2 are so much more powerful than sc1, your much better off backing off.

skot

United States1 Post

October 17 2010 23:14 GMT

#10

If you have enough mutas to effectively kill a turret then you have enough mutas to effectively kill the SCVs trying to repair it and then flee. The turret will still be there but they handed you what you came for by piling their SCVs around it.

Multiple turrets are a different story. The main thing is you don't want to lose mutas to turrets while just giving them enough time to walk their army up and chase you away without achieving anything but killing a turret. In the example cited in the OP there was nothing nearby that would die in a hurry and the turret was fairly close to a ramp. At best IdrA would have killed the turret and flown off before getting anything else done.

pilsken

Germany441 Posts

October 17 2010 23:18 GMT

#11

I feel the biggest issues there are thors. Turrets and Thors require entirely different micro approaches, against turrets you want your mutas to be as stacked as possible to make them all attack at the same time, against Thors Mutas need to be spread out otherwise all your Mutas crumble instantly.

Now consider that Thors have a range of 10 against air. That is huge. What happens now when you attack a Turret that might even get repaired with all your mutas stacked and you don't see the Thor coming (or maybe a Thor just pops from a factory nearby) -> maybe 7 of your 9 mutas are instantly into yellow hp, which is far from economic for one measily turret.

That doesn't mean that you shouldn't just take down turrets when you have enough Mutas. But be damn sure that the Thors he almost certainly has are somewhere else, or you'll regret it. Rather look for another hole in the T's defense that can't shoot back if you're not completely sure.

Saechiis

Netherlands4989 Posts

October 17 2010 23:41 GMT

#12

IdrA just plays safe, he's confident enough in his macro that he doesn't feel he needs to push his luck by forcing muta's down the Terrans throat. Muta's are extremely effective at keeping the Terran at bay and forcing turrets, thors and marines whilst Zerg has map-control and defense against banshees and medivac drops.

Muta's do their job by just being there, any damage on the Terran's economy is an added benefit.

T.O.P.

Hong Kong4685 Posts

October 17 2010 23:46 GMT

#13

Killing a turret takes screen time, sometimes you're better of using that screentime to macro and lay creep tumors. If you attack a turret and not watch it die, there's a risk that all the scvs come repair which will result in dead mutalisk and a surviving turret.

Grebliv

Iceland800 Posts

October 17 2010 23:53 GMT

#14

Risk and incomplete information sometimes and just timidness at other.

Acritter

Syria7637 Posts

October 18 2010 00:01 GMT

#15

Risk/reward applies here. Turrets cost 100 mins and take 25 seconds to rebuild, a tiny investment. If you succeed in killing the turret, unless it's the only defense in the area and you can proceed to kill everything else, you have obtained a very small reward. If you fail in killing the turret or their army appears and does heavy damage to your Mutas, then you take a really hard hit. There's a huge risk there for very little reward, unless there's nothing around to defend with, in which case you go for the throat.

Ghost-z

United States1291 Posts

October 18 2010 00:04 GMT

#16

IdrA had the lead in that game on Xel'Naga Caverns where his mutas ran from that lonely turret. Not worth the small risk in his mind, 1 Turret = 100 mins, stim marines snipe 1 Muta = 100 gas. He is one guy who will definatly sit on an advantage, macro up even further ahead, then steam roll you.

As for me, I always rape their turrets if I have a critical mass of mutas! Although most of my opponents run scvs away and don't repair. I have sniped the repairing scvs and then finished the turret in some games, losing far too many mutas than I should but hey that was half of Terrans bases right.

blitzkrieger

United States512 Posts

October 18 2010 00:10 GMT

#17

Zerg needs Mutalisks. Mutalisk needs gas. Gas is invisible.Turrets... turrets detect gas. Tur. Ets. Tourettes. A disease. Infestors have disease. Disease makes Terran sick. And they have to call in to work sick. They can't play starcraft. Conserve gas is the answer!

+ Show Spoiler +

mikiao

United States161 Posts

October 18 2010 00:13 GMT

#18

I always figured it was because in the time it takes your mutas to take out the turret, the terran could stim his marines over and be in position to rape the rest of your mutas as they do the "woohoo we killed something" dance.

and while your mutas are taking out one structure, they're not being annoying somewhere else. Like picking off that tank at the end of my line....bastards