EPT
[G] Build order timing calculator - Page 2
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ChThoniC
United States536 Posts
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Rastre
United States19 Posts
If you are interested, PM me and perhaps I we can investigate ways to collaborate in our efforts. For example, i could implement a web service to let you post builds into my site - or vice versa. I'll definitely add a link to your site somewhere tho, since you've obviously done a lot of work (and were apparently inspired by the same daily ; ) | ||
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Haploid
Netherlands89 Posts
On October 13 2010 05:54 pyjamads wrote: Just to note what someone else did during the beta: http://sc2tacop.site90.net/edition1/ A suggestion might be to use AJAX and make the timings "spawn" besides the build order, so that people have a chance to see where they're at mineral and gas wise.... Yeah, I saw that one and a few others around. That's definitely the most advanced one, and it's actually quite good calculation-wise, but I find it really hard to use, and it takes ages to get my build order set up in it. I could do the AJAXy thing, except I think it'd require a lot more processing power serverside. Many small things you change in the build order require pretty much all the timings to be recalculated, or at least all the timings after the point where you made the change. If I make it so that it recalculates any time you make a change, that's an awful lot of extra recalculations. If I make it so you have to press a button to recalculate, well, that's basically what it is now.  I'll consider making it wider, so you can put the build order and the calculated timings side-by side. I don't want to make it too wide, but maybe we can fit it in. On October 13 2010 06:06 ChThoniC wrote: Really cool idea, I could see it eventually turn into something like you put in the unit comp you want, and it will reverse-engineer the fastest build order to get that army out Whoa there, I get a headache just thinking about it, lol. That's really really really tough to make for all possible unit mixes. It's fairly easy to figure out for any one specific cocktail, but to make it work for every possibility, yikes. | ||
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noD
2151 Posts
According to it for 3 rax + 2 vikings and siege tanks u must be in exactly 2 saturated bases, this means im idling pretty much all the time btw very very nice tool, congratulations ... | ||
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Danglars
United States12079 Posts
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thundertoss
United States1160 Posts
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Lancette
China120 Posts
show the energy left in nexus at a time allow constant chrono selected unit producing structure | ||
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ylmson
United States9 Posts
For example: 10 Nexus 10 Pylon If you write these, the calculator will put the pylon down before the nexus. But if you do the following it puts down nexus after the pylon: 10 Nexus 10 Pylon 11 Probe* Not quite understanding the logic here. Isn't it nicer to just try to follow the order of the lines and give errors when a specific order can't be accomplished? Also if you write the above, it will start building 10th probe before the pylon is finished. Another example of the problem is that it never builds Assimilator when I want it to: 16 Assimilator builds it at 12 supply. 30 Assimilator builds it at 17 supply. Other buildings suffer the same problem sometimes. It might be useful to give a label to a building when you make it, so you can come back to refer to the building when you want to perform certain action. e.g. begin upgrade at two forges, then at a later time, select one of them to start chrono boost on. Finally, where is Transform to Gateway so I can do the trick where you build 3 zealots in 58 seconds from one gate, without chronoboost?  | ||
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Haploid
Netherlands89 Posts
On October 14 2010 09:45 ylmson wrote: I noticed it often rearranges the building order when supply counts are the same, or sometimes does not build things at the exact supply I gave it. The calculator doesn't actually keep track of the order in which you put things. It looks at supply count, prerequisites, and user-defined dependencies (such as 10 Gateway > Zealot, which means start the Zealot when this Gateway has been completed). I changed it, though. Now it keeps track of the order in which things appear in the build order, even if they have the same supply count. So 10 Nexus, 10 Pylon works as you'd expect now. On October 14 2010 09:45 ylmson wrote: Another example of the problem is that it never builds Assimilator when I want it to: 16 Assimilator builds it at 12 supply. 30 Assimilator builds it at 17 supply. Yeah, it does that. I put an explanation of that in the limitations section. If you write 16 Assimilator, it'll start by building probes up to 16 supply. Then it looks for the earliest moment you could build the Assimilator. Turns out that's long before you reach 16 supply. If you really want to start the Assimilator after the 16th probe has started building, write: 15 Probe & Assimilator I think the calculator is better off with this slight optimization technique in it, rather than taking it out. On October 14 2010 09:45 ylmson wrote: It might be useful to give a label to a building when you make it, so you can come back to refer to the building when you want to perform certain action. e.g. begin upgrade at two forges, then at a later time, select one of them to start chrono boost on. I've really thought about this a long time, and I couldn't think of any situation where the two methods of notating chronoboost differ. Your example would be: 16 Forge > Ground Weapons Level 1** 18 Forge > Ground Armor Level 1 Two chronoboosts on the first upgrade, none on the other. The chronoboosts are used as soon as they can be. On October 14 2010 09:45 ylmson wrote: Finally, where is Transform to Gateway so I can do the trick where you build 3 zealots in 58 seconds from one gate, without chronoboost? I thought they fixed that trick in the beta. But yeah, I'll add it, for completeness. | ||
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Phrencys
Canada270 Posts
I generated a Korean 4gates all-in: 10 Pylon 10 Probe* 10 Gateway 13 Assimilator > put 3 on gas 15 Cybernetics Core > Warpgate*** @50 gas take 3 off gas 18 Gateway [3] > Transform to Warpgate [4] 18 Pylon [3] Some interesting facts, assuming numbers are correct: - It gets Warpgates 40sec sooner than a standard 4gates (though I've seen faster 4gates than the one in your example). - Not chrono boosting Nexus on 10 supply results in 886 extra minerals at the moment your warp gates morph, instead of 836 (so that boost is estimated at 50minerals?) - You can actually make a 5gates all-in and be ready at the same time. Won't be able to support several full cycles, but your initial two waves will hit 20% harder.I'm going to test this when I get home tonight. | ||
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Haploid
Netherlands89 Posts
On October 14 2010 22:52 Phrencys wrote: Some interesting facts, assuming numbers are correct: - Not chrono boosting Nexus on 10 supply results in 886 extra minerals at the moment your warp gates morph, instead of 836 (so that boost is estimated at 50minerals?) I think you mean the other way around: Chronoboosting Nexus results in 50 extra minerals when the warpgate morphs have completed. Good show on that build order. But I think the main reason it's faster than the example from Liquipedia is because it builds no units until after the warpgates, which can be... risky. Update Version 0.2: - Terran support - Show Chrono Boost & MULE in timing - Updated to follow Patch 1.1.2 | ||
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ylmson
United States9 Posts
11 Supply Depot 11 Barracks 11 Refinery > put 3 on gas 11 Tech Lab on Barracks 11 Marine It says "No production queue of type Reactor attached to Barracks is available!" Only removing the tech lab will allow the marine to build. | ||
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Haploid
Netherlands89 Posts
On October 16 2010 04:21 ylmson wrote: Why can't I build a marine when I only have Barracks with Tech Lab? ... It says "No production queue of type Reactor attached to Barracks is available!" Only removing the tech lab will allow the marine to build. Oops, I forgot to add the "Barracks with Tech Lab attached" queue type to the Marine. Dito for Hellion, Viking and Medivac. Thanks for spotting this. It's fixed now. Also, I updated the error message to correctly say: No production queue of type Barracks, or Barracks with attached Reactor, or Reactor attached to Barracks, or Barracks with attached Tech Lab is available! | ||
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JMC4
United States259 Posts
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thesauceishot
Canada331 Posts
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ylmson
United States9 Posts
On October 16 2010 07:24 thesauceishot wrote: For some reason it shifted my build order 1 supply. I have it typed in as 10 gate, 14 pylon, but it only makes 3 probes after the 10 gate so under timings it has it as a 13 pylon. I believe that is because of the calculator optimizing the timing. Try "13 Probe & Pylon". Now, quick Terran question: Where is Tactical Nuke  | ||
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Haploid
Netherlands89 Posts
On October 16 2010 07:24 thesauceishot wrote: For some reason it shifted my build order 1 supply. I have it typed in as 10 gate, 14 pylon, but it only makes 3 probes after the 10 gate so under timings it has it as a 13 pylon. What thesauceisshot said. I'm working on an option to make the calculator take the build order as literally as possible. It's actually harder not to optimize. On October 16 2010 14:39 ylmson wrote: Now, quick Terran question: Where is Tactical Nuke Added it. It wasn't in the lists of Terran units, structures and upgrades on Liquipedia, so I kinda forgot about it. It's really a one-of-a-kind, the only expendable in the game. | ||
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ylmson
United States9 Posts
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Haploid
Netherlands89 Posts
On October 17 2010 02:14 ylmson wrote: Thanks. Should Salvage Bunker be added as well? It obviously has an effect on economy, refunding 100 minerals at an arbitrary point. Terran truely has many mechanics. OMG, that's so cute. For a second there, I thought: oh, Salvage Bunker, that's easy, it's just a morph that transforms a bunker into nothing. And then I realized it actually has a negative mineral cost.  I added it to the list, and I think it'll work fine, but I'm not quite sure if there isn't some part of the calculator that'll flip when it sees a negative cost.@thesauceisshot I've also added an option called Strict mode. In Strict mode, the calculator will never produce a building or unit before the indicated supply count is achieved. So it'll follow the supply count in your build order to the letter. | ||
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ylmson
United States9 Posts
Another feature I'm interested in: Would it be possible to fast advance to a future given time and see the resources I would have at that moment, assuming not building anything in the duration? Then I can punch in the timing of an enemy push and estimate how much I can build to defend it. Since you already have @mineral and @gas build command, it may be nice to have an @time build command as well, which could then also function as the feature to look at available resource at a given time. Right now, if I want to see how much minerals I have at 5:30, I would be trying @1000 mineral Pylon, @500 mineral Pylon until it gets me to 5:30, which is a bit inconvenient. Specifying the exact time for a command would also help manually factoring in the time of walking to build proxy barracks, etc. Finally, I was trying out strict mode a bit, seems like when strict mode is on, 9 Pylon builds the pylon after the 9th probe comes out, I think it might be more useful if it makes the pylon after the 9th probe starts. Usually when I use strict mode I just want a strict order of building things, not waiting for the last supply unit to finish before making a building. It would especially matter if a unit takes a long time to build, since with strict mode you can't put down any building before the unit is finished. Man, we can almost play the game on paper now. Props for such nice work! | ||
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