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itgl72
United States13 Posts
Here us one I've worked on. Please have a look and let me know if you feel the output is accurate as the syntax all seems to have gone through. The strategy is: http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft2/3_Barracks_(vs._Zerg) The direct link in SC2Calc is: http://tinyurl.com/386jvdr | ||
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gcoin
United States89 Posts
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darko
Sweden10 Posts
I think I've found a few things which seems like bugs to me. They may be intentional though, I'm not sure. 1. When building a second hatchery, the first hatchery starts to rally workers to the mineral line of the second hatchery. Those workers doesn't give any income until second hatchery finishes. I would prefer if the rally point was changed when the hatchery finishes, rather than when it starts building. http://tinyurl.com/2fh9hzt Look at income in steps 11 through 17. 2. If you give the command constant Zerglings, it will produce a drone every other zerling. http://tinyurl.com/32hpba7 Is there a way to stop the automatic drone production? 3. When scheduling something to be made at a certain amount of gas, no drones are made until the required gas has been harvested, thus piling up larvae and minerals. http://tinyurl.com/3x2yl5b | ||
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itgl72
United States13 Posts
Notice: Trying to get property of non-object in /home/vhosting/y/vhost0038687/domains/sc2calc.org/htdocs/www/build_order/timeline.php on line 362 Notice: Trying to get property of non-object in /home/vhosting/y/vhost0038687/domains/sc2calc.org/htdocs/www/build_order/timeline.php on line 362 http://tinyurl.com/2djr7of | ||
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Drae
70 Posts
Build Order There is a bug in the completion time for the second queen which is listed as having a 60 second production time, when it should be 50. The second queens first larvae spit is listed as 10 seconds before the completion time, which is actually on time for when it would be done. | ||
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Haploid
Netherlands89 Posts
On December 10 2010 08:42 itgl72 wrote: Here us one I've worked on. Please have a look and let me know if you feel the output is accurate as the syntax all seems to have gone through. Looks alright. For a bit of extra realism, you could add: 10 Supply Depot (send @60 minerals) and such. That puts on an additional few seconds; it's not possible to build all that in your mineral line.  On December 10 2010 20:56 darko wrote: Nice app! 1. When building a second hatchery, the first hatchery starts to rally workers to the mineral line of the second hatchery. Those workers doesn't give any income until second hatchery finishes. I would prefer if the rally point was changed when the hatchery finishes, rather than when it starts building. http://tinyurl.com/2fh9hzt Look at income in steps 11 through 17. 2. If you give the command constant Zerglings, it will produce a drone every other zerling. http://tinyurl.com/32hpba7 Is there a way to stop the automatic drone production? 3. When scheduling something to be made at a certain amount of gas, no drones are made until the required gas has been harvested, thus piling up larvae and minerals. http://tinyurl.com/3x2yl5b 1. Fixed that. It now sends workers only to completed hatcheries. Surprisingly, it really doesn't make much economical difference. About 80 minerals; I'd have thought the mining time lost would be more impactful. 2. Yes, you can write 18 Cancel Drone and it will do just that. 3. Fixed that too. It was a simple rounding error. On December 11 2010 06:40 itgl72 wrote: Notice: Trying to get property of non-object in /home/vhosting/y/vhost0038687/domains/sc2calc.org/htdocs/www/build_order/timeline.php on line 362 Fixed that also, didn't have any impact on the timings though. On December 11 2010 18:51 Drae wrote: There is a bug in the completion time for the second queen which is listed as having a 60 second production time, when it should be 50. The second queens first larvae spit is listed as 10 seconds before the completion time, which is actually on time for when it would be done. I see 50 seconds build time for both Queens. However, it did start using the second Queen for her abilities 10 seconds before it completed, and that's definitely a bug. I fixed that. | ||
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dakenho
United States6 Posts
comma delimited XML dump. It would be nice to have a link that spits out the build order as an xml document request: ^^^ above should be split into two sheets if possible, sheet 1 should build order, sheet 2 should be timings, money, ext | ||
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Kirushi
United States3 Posts
Additionally, does this take into account an SCV losing mining time while building a building? I realize this may have been overlooked as it was originally a protoss tool. Thanks for your work regardless, its awesome! | ||
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bruteMax
Canada317 Posts
On December 15 2010 09:31 Kirushi wrote: I've been using this as terran lately and I feel like I've just run into a fundamental discrepancy with the mining math. By doing nothing but building scvs to 11, sending the workers, and then having checkpoints at 0:30, 1:00, 1:30, and 2:00, i'm coming up a full 60 minerals shy if what your calculator suggests. I tested this on multiple speeds including slowest and still find this difference. As you might imagine a difference of 60 minerals cascades down through the build order, delaying various things in various ways making it rather unreliable since the purpose of the tool is very precise timings. Additionally, does this take into account an SCV losing mining time while building a building? I realize this may have been overlooked as it was originally a protoss tool. Thanks for your work regardless, its awesome! Do you add these two lines to the top of your build order? Probably will go some way to addressing the discrepancy you've noticed. # Startup build delay = 3 seconds Nothing is built in the first three seconds. # Startup mining delay = 3 seconds First line means you don't build anything for 3 seconds, including workers. The second line means it takes 3 seconds to split and rally your initial 6 workers to the mineral line. This pretty much accurately reflects what we do in the first few seconds of every game - rally all workers to a mineral patch, split some to another patch, then queue a worker. | ||
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Kirushi
United States3 Posts
On December 15 2010 10:15 bruteMax wrote: Do you add these two lines to the top of your build order? Probably will go some way to addressing the discrepancy you've noticed. First line means you don't build anything for 3 seconds, including workers. The second line means it takes 3 seconds to split and rally your initial 6 workers to the mineral line. This pretty much accurately reflects what we do in the first few seconds of every game - rally all workers to a mineral patch, split some to another patch, then queue a worker. I did in fact add those lines, i even upped the time to 5 seconds each even though playing on slowest both queuing the scv and sending the works happens within the first second easily, still a large difference (~40 minerals instead of 60 at 5 seconds) | ||
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Haploid
Netherlands89 Posts
On December 14 2010 04:21 dakenho wrote: comma delimited XML dump. Firstly, not to be nitpicking, but comma-delimited (CSV) and XML are two entirely different things. You would use either one, but not some freakish hybrid. If you just want to copy the data into a spreadsheet, that's really easy. Almost every spreadsheet editor (Excel, OpenOffice, Google Docs) will allow you to paste a HTML table into a spreadsheet. Just select the table, copy it and voila. Then save it as any file format you like. If you want to create a tool for common use that uses my calculator programmatically, we can discuss that further. On December 15 2010 09:31 Kirushi wrote: I've been using this as terran lately and I feel like I've just run into a fundamental discrepancy with the mining math. By doing nothing but building scvs to 11, sending the workers, and then having checkpoints at 0:30, 1:00, 1:30, and 2:00, i'm coming up a full 60 minerals shy if what your calculator suggests. I tested this on multiple speeds including slowest and still find this difference. As you might imagine a difference of 60 minerals cascades down through the build order, delaying various things in various ways making it rather unreliable since the purpose of the tool is very precise timings. Additionally, does this take into account an SCV losing mining time while building a building? I realize this may have been overlooked as it was originally a protoss tool. Thanks for your work regardless, its awesome! 60 minerals is about ... 7 seconds off. Yeah, that's not good. I'll run a few games, see what's wrong with this picture. Like bruteMax said, part of it is the initial delays; that'll take 3 seconds off the discrepancy. If you look at the income table, you'll see that SCV's are taken off minerals when you build something, and they return when it's done. So yeah, I took that into account. | ||
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DFarce
55 Posts
+ Show Spoiler + Warning: Missing argument 3 for Spellcasters::expend(), called in /home/vhosting/y/vhost0038687/domains/sc2calc.org/htdocs/www/build_order/timeline.php on line 783 and defined in /home/vhosting/y/vhost0038687/domains/sc2calc.org/htdocs/www/build_order/spellcaster.php on line 255 Notice: Undefined variable: time in /home/vhosting/y/vhost0038687/domains/sc2calc.org/htdocs/www/build_order/spellcaster.php on line 257 Warning: Missing argument 3 for Spellcasters::expend(), called in /home/vhosting/y/vhost0038687/domains/sc2calc.org/htdocs/www/build_order/timeline.php on line 783 and defined in /home/vhosting/y/vhost0038687/domains/sc2calc.org/htdocs/www/build_order/spellcaster.php on line 255 Notice: Undefined variable: time in /home/vhosting/y/vhost0038687/domains/sc2calc.org/htdocs/www/build_order/spellcaster.php on line 257 Warning: Missing argument 3 for Spellcasters::expend(), called in /home/vhosting/y/vhost0038687/domains/sc2calc.org/htdocs/www/build_order/timeline.php on line 783 and defined in /home/vhosting/y/vhost0038687/domains/sc2calc.org/htdocs/www/build_order/spellcaster.php on line 255 Notice: Undefined variable: time in /home/vhosting/y/vhost0038687/domains/sc2calc.org/htdocs/www/build_order/spellcaster.php on line 257 Warning: Missing argument 3 for Spellcasters::expend(), called in /home/vhosting/y/vhost0038687/domains/sc2calc.org/htdocs/www/build_order/timeline.php on line 783 and defined in /home/vhosting/y/vhost0038687/domains/sc2calc.org/htdocs/www/build_order/spellcaster.php on line 255 Notice: Undefined variable: time in /home/vhosting/y/vhost0038687/domains/sc2calc.org/htdocs/www/build_order/spellcaster.php on line 257 Warning: Missing argument 3 for Spellcasters::expend(), called in /home/vhosting/y/vhost0038687/domains/sc2calc.org/htdocs/www/build_order/timeline.php on line 783 and defined in /home/vhosting/y/vhost0038687/domains/sc2calc.org/htdocs/www/build_order/spellcaster.php on line 255 Notice: Undefined variable: time in /home/vhosting/y/vhost0038687/domains/sc2calc.org/htdocs/www/build_order/spellcaster.php on line 257 Warning: Missing argument 3 for Spellcasters::expend(), called in /home/vhosting/y/vhost0038687/domains/sc2calc.org/htdocs/www/build_order/timeline.php on line 783 and defined in /home/vhosting/y/vhost0038687/domains/sc2calc.org/htdocs/www/build_order/spellcaster.php on line 255 Notice: Undefined variable: time in /home/vhosting/y/vhost0038687/domains/sc2calc.org/htdocs/www/build_order/spellcaster.php on line 257 Warning: Missing argument 3 for Spellcasters::expend(), called in /home/vhosting/y/vhost0038687/domains/sc2calc.org/htdocs/www/build_order/timeline.php on line 783 and defined in /home/vhosting/y/vhost0038687/domains/sc2calc.org/htdocs/www/build_order/spellcaster.php on line 255 Notice: Undefined variable: time in /home/vhosting/y/vhost0038687/domains/sc2calc.org/htdocs/www/build_order/spellcaster.php on line 257 And as a side note, I also am getting an error that reads as follows: No spellcaster of type Nexus has enough energy. This error message should not occur. Please report this message with your build order on the thread linked at bottom of the page. And so here i am reporting. The build order is as follows. + Show Spoiler + 9 pylon 11 gateway & scout 11 probe* 13 probe* 15 probe* 16 Nexus 16 zealot > constant zealot 18 pylon 18 assimilator >+3 18 cybernetics core >warpgate**** Putting the realistic startup delay stops the odd message though (nexus error). All in all, a fantastic tool, as it greatly cuts down theorycrafting time. Keep it up  EDIT: Is there some sort of comment notation that can be used for your calculator? It would be much appreciated to put in timing or other personal notes, etc. EDIT2: I just found another, different bug, I'll spoiler it to keep this post short. + Show Spoiler + When using the @50 gas syntax, the calculator is placing the priority of it oddly. For instance, When placed higher up on the list (I am using an extension of the previous build, however removing the constant zealot production), such as 18 cybernetics core >warpgate**** 18 zealot @50 gas +3 probes on minerals 20 probe 22 zealot The calculator will place probes on gas, and then will not perform the following actions while waiting for the gas to mine. This ends up with there being >200 unspent minerals when the BOC removes the probes. The opposite is true for a code such as 18 cybernetics core >warpgate**** 18 zealot 20 probe 22 zealot @50 gas +3 probes on minerals The BOC will wait until the zealot has begun production to remove the probes from gas, meaning that a total of 60 gas has been mined when they are removed, which is not the desired effect. Thanks again | ||
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Haploid
Netherlands89 Posts
On January 03 2011 10:05 DFarce wrote: I have been getting very odd output in your tool for the past week or so. I am using the chrome browser, and any build I enter gives erroneous output before the actual build order (even when there are no errors). Got it. All those errors were caused by a single missing comma in my source code and have been fixed now. On January 03 2011 10:05 DFarce wrote: EDIT: Is there some sort of comment notation that can be used for your calculator? It would be much appreciated to put in timing or other personal notes, etc. Yeah, you can use the hash symbol (#) to add comments, like: 10 Pylon # don't forget to send the probe back 12 Gateway The other problem you mentioned, I'll have to dig a little deeper for it. Constant unit production should not be halted while waiting for a given amount of resources, unless building that unit uses up the resource in question. | ||
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DFarce
55 Posts
I copied a build made using the BOC into YABOT and tried doing it to see what the difference with theoretical and actual times is, and the results are impressive. + Show Spoiler + ![[image loading]](http://i830.photobucket.com/albums/zz224/DFarce/Starcraft%202/BOC_YabotComparison-1.png?t=1294099391) *Shrunk in size as to not break thread The BOC code I used was + Show Spoiler + # Startup build delay = 3 seconds # Startup mining delay = 3 seconds 9 pylon (Send @65 minerals) 10 probe* 12 gateway (Send @125 minerals) 12 scout 12 probe* 14 assimilator>+3 14 probe* 15 pylon 16 cybernetics core>warpgate***&gateway [2] 16 probe* @100 gas +3 on minerals 18 Nexus > transfer 6 probes (8 seconds lost) 18 Stalker* 22 gateway 24 Zealot 26 +3 on gas 26 assimilator>+3 I did a good probe split however, and still came up a few seconds short with the first two commands, which I think cascaded through the times. Because of this, I think that a 5 second startup and mining delay would be more realistic. As well, I sent my scout back to the minerals (at 12 after gateway) when I shouldn't have, so my results are a little closer than they would be otherwise. Either way, it is incredible that your tool can so accurately predict times within 10 seconds up to 5 game minutes. An export to YABOT button may be in order  Awesome stuff Haploid | ||
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anourkey
1 Post
http://sc2calc.org/build_order/?buildOrder=9 Pylon 9 Gateway 10 Probe* 12 Assimilator > +3 13 Cybernetics Core @50 gas Warpgate*** Thanks! | ||
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Haploid
Netherlands89 Posts
On January 03 2011 10:05 DFarce wrote: When using the @50 gas syntax, the calculator is placing the priority of it oddly. For instance, When placed higher up on the list (I am using an extension of the previous build, however removing the constant zealot production), such as 18 cybernetics core >warpgate**** 18 zealot @50 gas +3 probes on minerals 20 probe 22 zealot The calculator will place probes on gas, and then will not perform the following actions while waiting for the gas to mine. This ends up with there being >200 unspent minerals when the BOC removes the probes. This is actually correct, not a bug. The calculator picks up the fixed jobs (first job on each line) in the order in which they appear. Therefore it will execute the @50 gas job before the 20 probe job. And since you specified 20 as the supply count for that probe job, there is no room to squeeze in any constant unit production. You'll just need to change the order of the jobs: 18 zealot 20 probe @50 gas +3 probes on minerals 22 zealot On January 03 2011 10:05 DFarce wrote: [/spoiler]The opposite is true for a code such as 18 cybernetics core >warpgate**** 18 zealot 20 probe 22 zealot @50 gas +3 probes on minerals The BOC will wait until the zealot has begun production to remove the probes from gas, meaning that a total of 60 gas has been mined when they are removed, which is not the desired effect. Also here, the fixed jobs are picked up in the order in which they appear. The correct order here would be: 18 zealot 20 probe @50 gas +3 probes on minerals 22 zealot On January 05 2011 17:53 anourkey wrote: Great work so far! There does seem to be a small bug where Chronoboost-ing warpgate tech does not reduce the available energy from the Nexus. Even after 3 chronoboosts, the nexus has 100 energy left. Thanks, I fixed it. This bug caused the energy remaining to be misreported for chronoboosts that occur at the end of the timeline. It only misreported the remaining energy, but it has no effect on the timings. | ||
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Imalengrat
Australia364 Posts
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shingbi
58 Posts
Is there a way to chronoboost an upgrade at a later stage? Suppose I start warpgate, then want to spend my next two chronoboosts on gateways, and afterwards chrono warpgate research. Also, a comment syntax would be great, so you could annotate but still have the build order be accepted by the tool. | ||
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Ragwortshire
Ireland12 Posts
- "Put 3 on gas" gives an error (where "put 3 on gas" is fine). It seems like it reads "Put" as "take" for some reason. - The calculator says it takes 50 seconds to build a spore crawler; liquipedia says 30. - The efficiency calculations (which are really cool btw) are rather misleading because they include time spent morphing (eg to an Orbital Command) as "busy" time... but not as time in which the structure actually existed. So you get efficiencies of 200% or whatever from time to time. (e.g., you build a CC and morph it to an OC 5s after it finishes.) Also some feature requests: - A command to kill units you own would be good. Say for example you want to 8 pool and then transition into something else. At some point it would be nice to be able to assume that your initial lings are dead and so you have supply free to do other stuff. This could be as simple as "Free 3 Supply" or something like that. - Also for team play a command for giving resources to allies or receiving from them would be nice. Thanks! | ||
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Haploid
Netherlands89 Posts
On January 23 2011 20:20 shingbi wrote: Still working on this? Is there a way to chronoboost an upgrade at a later stage? Suppose I start warpgate, then want to spend my next two chronoboosts on gateways, and afterwards chrono warpgate research. Also, a comment syntax would be great, so you could annotate but still have the build order be accepted by the tool. I haven't abandoned the project, just working a lot more slowly since I accepted a new slightly-more-than-fulltime job. Chronoboosts are scheduled in the order in which they appear in the build order. So what you're describing may or may not be possible in the current implementation, depending on whether it is possible to write the chronoboostees in the desired order. Maybe you could suggest a nice way of writing what you want in a build order, and I'll see what I can do. Comment syntax is now documented. It was there already (any line that starts with a # is ignored), but undocumented. On January 27 2011 21:02 Ragwortshire wrote: - "Put 3 on gas" gives an error (where "put 3 on gas" is fine). It seems like it reads "Put" as "take" for some reason. - The calculator says it takes 50 seconds to build a spore crawler; liquipedia says 30. - The efficiency calculations (which are really cool btw) are rather misleading because they include time spent morphing (eg to an Orbital Command) as "busy" time... but not as time in which the structure actually existed. So you get efficiencies of 200% or whatever from time to time. (e.g., you build a CC and morph it to an OC 5s after it finishes.) Fixed all three of them. On January 27 2011 21:02 Ragwortshire wrote: A command to kill units you own would be good. Say for example you want to 8 pool and then transition into something else. At some point it would be nice to be able to assume that your initial lings are dead and so you have supply free to do other stuff. This could be as simple as "Free 3 Supply" or something like that. - Also for team play a command for giving resources to allies or receiving from them would be nice. I'll add a kill-command ("18 kill 3 marines, then marauder"). Not so sure about the team interplay stuff. I don't think you can view a team build order as two separate build orders with just resources being exchanged. It's a very different beast. | ||
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