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On October 08 2010 03:20 dj_lil_sloan wrote:
Thanks for the replay packs dude!
Q1: Could you elaborate on why you don't like the +1 lings in ZvP? I found some success with it against the increasingly common phoenixes -> force hydra -> stomp with collosus builds.
Q2: Is there a reason you don't hatch first more often? At 1200 diamond I've found I can defend it pretty much everytime vs toss/terran.
Just bumping my questions... it looks like you may have missed them. If there is a reason you didn't answer, my apologies!
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Wow Artosis, the ZvZ replays in your 2nd replay pack have totally changed my outlook on ZvZ... in almost every one of those games I thought you were behind, then you pull off a few magic fungal growths and BAM game over! especially the one on metal where you're opponet was on 3 base to your 2 and he had like 25 hydras when you attacked, yet somehow you made out with minimal losses. also the game on xel naga where your opponet nydus'd to the front of your base and got his expo up way sooner, i really thought you were gonna lose that but you fungal OWNED him so hard.... it was insane watching it to me because ZvZ is probably my best matchup right now (1400D) and i pretty much always just win by mass muta/ling/bling. this strat seems awesome, cant wait to play with it!
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oh yeah, just wanted to mention that in one or two of the ZvP's that i watched, you had one/multiple observers sitting in your base for the entire game. just something for you to think about/clean up before the GSL!
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I was wondering how exactly does droning/making units translate into ZvZ ?
I find it complitly different compared to ZvP/T. Since both you and your opponent can slam out ~10 drones/20 lings instantly and complitly change the game if done at the wrong time.
You managed to win a few of those games even though it got to mid-game and your opponents were ahead of you in drones, just because of nice droning-timing. (i guess)
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Artosis
United States2140 Posts
On October 08 2010 16:50 dj_lil_sloan wrote:Show nested quote +On October 08 2010 03:20 dj_lil_sloan wrote:
Thanks for the replay packs dude!
Q1: Could you elaborate on why you don't like the +1 lings in ZvP? I found some success with it against the increasingly common phoenixes -> force hydra -> stomp with collosus builds.
Q2: Is there a reason you don't hatch first more often? At 1200 diamond I've found I can defend it pretty much everytime vs toss/terran. Just bumping my questions... it looks like you may have missed them. If there is a reason you didn't answer, my apologies!
oops!
Q1. Anyone who opens stargate tech, I always go mass speedling vs. They will be unit-light, especially light on sentries. The +1 build he was talking about, was rushing to +1 and using pure lings to hold stuff off. Its just terrible. FF owns it too hard.
Q2. I do 14 hatch sometimes and 15 hatch sometimes. The problem is, they are both gamble builds. If someone proxies you, you will lose unless he screws up ridiculously much.
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Hey Artosis!
Big fan, and thanks for the replay packs!
Q1: What do you find is the best way to deal with 3warpgate into expand and 4warpgate all-in?
I like to go mass muta/ling in ZvP, but I can't start droning/teching until I'm safe from this early pressure. What do you prefer to keep yourself alive? Mass spinecrawlers, mass speedlings, fast roach, or a combo of everything? Mass lings seem to hurt my drone count quite a bit. I've attempted 6 Spines + lings, but this still seems to get beat, especially when P goes all-in. I just can't start my muta tech until I have a good drone count, which is never the case when I'm constantly pumping speedlings to hold off the Protoss pressure. My biggest issue with ZvP right now is surviving the first 8 minutes.
Q2: As stated previously, I like to go muta/ling in ZvP; harassing the P constantly with mutas while I try to reach critical mass with them, meanwhile expanding/droning/getting upgrades. I always opt for this build when protoss FE's. However, I've encountered P's that like to go FE into 2 stargate. I can't break their wall-off with mass lings, and phoenixes are always out in large enough numbers to shut down my initial mutas. Now I'm in trouble. My mutas can't harass, overlords/drones are being picked off, and I'm forced to completely switch my tech to hydras. However, at this point I always feel too far behind; my third is constantly harassed by the ~10 phoenixes, and all my minerals are going into overlords/new queens/new drones. Protoss then pushes out once he has a couple of colossi and steamrolls me, as I never have enough roach/hydra in time. What do I do?
Q3: How do I stop a Protoss 200/200 push? Usually I contain them on their 2 bases while massing muta/ling and getting upgrades. They sit on their asses until they reach max; at this point they push out with 3-4 colossi, a couple immortals and a bunch of zealots/stalkers; basically a mix of everything. By this point I've been maxed myself on pure muta/ling for a few minutes, just waiting for them to push. I'm also at 5 base by this point. The issue is, my muta/ling army gets steam rolled, even if my lings are 2-2 and my mutas are 2-1, I've had my army decimated. The Protoss almost feels like he's at critical mass; there's nothing I can do to stop this army. This is especially frustrating because I know if I stop it the game is pretty much over and I win. Do I stop production at 150ish supply and get ultras?
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Thanks artosis for this.... going to be pretty helpful witha lot of zergs and thanks for asking all the questions . my question is a little off topic
Whats your favorite Korean Food? Im so jealous you get to live in korea and see the cute girls and eat food with side dishes that are yummy! I just made some fish cake sides today !
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Artosis,
First off great job casting the GSL tourny! Really made the experience that much more enjoyable.
1) Whats the deciding factor for you on whether you defend your natural vs T with a couple roaches or two well placed spine crawlers?
I personally am doing the spine crawler route with speedlings vs both reapers and spines...transitioning to roaches if i see him going all out reapers (a lot more rare lately I find).
2) If it he goes fast factory for hellions and you elect for 2 spine crawlers and a queen ramp block to combat..and then you see him going mass barracks for MMM - are roaches still a good idea with him now having a decent amount of maruaders?
Usually when I see this i'm tossing down a baneling nest and massing crazy speedlings to try and hold it off until i can get muta into play (though after watching your replays I'm thinking of going infestor first vs bio) Thoughts on that?
Greatly appreciated!
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On October 08 2010 18:00 FREEloss_ca wrote:
Q2: As stated previously, I like to go muta/ling in ZvP; harassing the P constantly with mutas while I try to reach critical mass with them, meanwhile expanding/droning/getting upgrades. I always opt for this build when protoss FE's. However, I've encountered P's that like to go FE into 2 stargate. I can't break their wall-off with mass lings, and phoenixes are always out in large enough numbers to shut down my initial mutas. Now I'm in trouble. My mutas can't harass, overlords/drones are being picked off, and I'm forced to completely switch my tech to hydras. However, at this point I always feel too far behind; my third is constantly harassed by the ~10 phoenixes, and all my minerals are going into overlords/new queens/new drones. Protoss then pushes out once he has a couple of colossi and steamrolls me, as I never have enough roach/hydra in time. What do I do?
I'm obviously not Artosis, but take my thoughts on this question for what they're worth as a 1300 zerg.
I too like to go 2nd/3rd expo+speedling into mutas vs a FE protoss, and when I see they've gone for 2 stargate pheonix I make my first round of larva into corruptors and just stalk his pheonix with them as much as I can while producing mutas normally. I then use the mutas as I usually would but i bring the corruptors along to prevent him from using pheonix shoot/scoot to rip apart the mutas. Worst case scenerio is you'll go even losses muta/pheonix with him, and he cant keep up with your production. If he goes voids I feel its a GG as they get torn apart by mutas..if he goes stalks that can delay you but also give you map control like crazy since if he moves out stalker heavy your lings will do a great job while your mutas chip in.
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then you just do what you can, defend what you can, add a few drones here and there. this is the learning part, where you find out what is doable in zvz.
Can you briefly describe your learning experience in zvz? what major realizations did you come to? what subtle timings have you discovered when opening ling bling?
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Artosis has the sexiest creep spread ever. It always makes me sad when some dumb terran scans the tumors and destroys all his hard work. 
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You said that you had some trouble with your connection. With that said, is most of your practice done with practice partners? your with TL and OGS right now right? How do you feel about mass ladder vs practice partners? Both necessary or ladder is because you can't always practice vs your partners?
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Artosis, I know I've said this already, but I don't think it can really be said enough.
Thanks thanks thanks for posting these rep-packs and answering our questions. It's so awesome to have a quality gamer like yourself teaching and helping other players learn to play better, and it makes us appreciate what you do even more, both as a teacher and as a competitor.
Best of luck in the GSL qualifiers!
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Artosis kicks ass ^^.
Loved the replay pack!
Can't wait for more!
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On October 08 2010 16:00 Artosis wrote:Show nested quote +On October 08 2010 15:55 Gene(S)is wrote:
seems like you're just posting games that you win, how fun is that? Thanks for bringing this up, Gene(S)is. If you weren't a retard, you would have read my post and put 2+2 together. I have been discing lately, and it dropped my ladder score. I have 3 types of games right now as i climb back up. 1. Wins - you see most of them here. I don't post ridiculous games that are over in a couple minutes. 2. Disconnects - still disconnecting in 1/5th of my games. 3. Losses - I think I lost a total of 2 games out of the last 30 or so. Didn't find the pylon, leave as soon as I see 5 zealots and a sentry at my hatch while I have 2 zerglings. Thanks for being a jackass though! Enjoy your time on the forums!
LOL!
This is seriously in contention for best post of the thread, and that quote is totally going into my sig.
Oh yeah, and you are totally awesome for doing this, and for being so active about answering questions. Much <3
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Hello.
I'm new to starcrft 2 and zerg. I have watched Artosis rep pack and noticed that he produced units in larvas simultaneously and units pop-out not one by one but at the same time from hatchery.
Is there any trick or you must order units very fast? And how to switch between larvas?
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On October 09 2010 07:47 zhendos wrote:
Hello.
I'm new to starcrft 2 and zerg. I have watched Artosis rep pack and noticed that he produced units in larvas simultaneously and units pop-out not one by one but at the same time from hatchery.
Is there any trick or you must order units very fast? And how to switch between larvas?
You have to hold a key for 1-2 seconds then all the selected larvae morph at the same time. For example when you're waiting for your ovie to pop just hit s + hold d and your all your larvae will morph into drones instantly.
EDIT : Oh and that works for all races & actions yo would want to queue.
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Butcherski, thank you very much =)
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Artosis
United States2140 Posts
On October 08 2010 17:12 Gotmog wrote:
I was wondering how exactly does droning/making units translate into ZvZ ?
I find it complitly different compared to ZvP/T. Since both you and your opponent can slam out ~10 drones/20 lings instantly and complitly change the game if done at the wrong time.
You managed to win a few of those games even though it got to mid-game and your opponents were ahead of you in drones, just because of nice droning-timing. (i guess)
Well, the thing is, banes, counters, and infestors all make it hard to attack your opponent. Therefore, u get more dromes than u would otherwise.
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EPT
