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On September 27 2010 11:47 Artosis wrote:Show nested quote +On September 27 2010 11:00 Rahlekk wrote:
This is awesome, thanks a bunch. (Side note: I will never get why people mass click when it seems just one would suffice.) There are a lot of reasons, but keeping your speed up is the most important. An absolute must for top players.
Thanks for the OP Artosis, you are a gentleman and a scholar.
@ Rahlekk - I played DotA competitively for a few years and the reasoning behind it was that the second you might see a unit that you need to navitage around, ie, either towards or away from, you can just slide the mouse the tiniest bit and you are already right-clicking. So in essence it just allows you to control your units a touch more quickly. And of course makes us look like the APM buffs we are!
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Artosis
United States2140 Posts
On September 27 2010 12:12 Krayze wrote:No Game-clock?? L2p!! lol jk S2. In the first game, you saw the collosi and used roach/hydra to kill them. Was holding off the collosi until you got ultras your game plan the whole time? If you skip the spire stage, is it a good idea to sort of sacrafice your early army to keep his collosi numbers down? In the second game, you defended with mass speedlings. I've read some strats (originated from Dimaga?) that you expand, drone til about 32, then mass lings, sometimes with +1 melee. Does this work well against Protoss? One last general question, when do you get your gas at your expansions. It seems that you only get them when your fully saturated on the minerals, looking for confirmation. Thanks Mr. Artosis, great commentary on the GSL, maybe next time I go to Seoul I'll say hey 
Q1. I felt like i had enough units at that time to hurt his army before he had the critical mass, so i hit while expanding to kill sentries, colos, and whatever else i could. That allows me to skip spire units while i am low econ, which is nice.
Q2. Speedlings are nice if you start to engage them near their base to use ffs. I dont like fast +1 tho, theres no great timing for it, prefer ranged up first.
Q3. When going muta i will get them fast. Otherwise i wait till sat yes.
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in the ZvP on temple, is it standard for you to get so many spine crawlers, or was it a response to a suspected 4 gate?
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I was interested in the ZvZ because I run into the same problem where my opponent has built 3+ spine crawlers in their base and my planned baneling/ling attack isn't going to work. I saw that you responded to his roaches with your own and that makes sense. Even the expansion makes sense since the rush distances on blistering sands are long and roaches are slow. Why did the game end when it did? Edit: Probably a d/c
If he was going for lair/spire, what would you have done instead?
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First off thanks for the zerg fpvods, it will greatly help round out my zerg. And great job with the GSL commentary.
In the first game(terrible cliffhanger!):
1.Why did you opt for the double gas hydra build? Would you ever consider doing a speedling/or even modified oversky to follow up with the cannon break? I feel like it could be possible after seeing the 2 pylon+cannon commitment, and knowing xel has alot of ground to cover for the protoss, to safely cover his expo, and his ramp.
2. What was the point in the changeling drop in the middle of the micro battle at the P front door?
3. Do you think you were too aggressive with the last of your ultras in the tail end of battles? Would it have been a better decision of saving 1-2 ultras instead of hunting down the remaining units?
ZvP on Xel, in the first game you were forced to hydra, in the 2nd game you also choice hydra, is this a play style choice? Map dependent? Would muta openings be possible, and if so, why do you prefer hydras? Or was it just a "flavor of the day" sort of game.
In the ZvZ game, after seeing the roach warren, and no 2nd gas, and a spine, did you ever consider trying to open 1 base muta? Considering your map vision and 1 base mutas mineral-light build(meaning you could still have a roach warren just in case) What advantages or disadvantages did your choice to try to play mirror build but with an economy edge have?
Thanks again!
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Sweet thanks artosis, keep making zergs proud.
Edit: The ending of the first game is epic.
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Thanks a lot Artosis, really appreciate these. Eagerly awaiting a pack of ZvTs!
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Artosis, on your first video, at around 7:30, did you select all your mineral drones to get an idea of saturation level? I saw you changed your mineral rally point from the nat back to the main after eyeballing the # of drones
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Sigh...why does the Korean Zerg sound better than the American one? Must be the language.
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Artosis
United States2140 Posts
On September 27 2010 12:34 AnAngryDingo wrote:
in the ZvP on temple, is it standard for you to get so many spine crawlers, or was it a response to a suspected 4 gate?
I did a very mineral heavy build, and thus wouldnt have speed in time to make p waste ffs near his base. This makes ling based defences useless. Thus spines.
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Artosis was your nydus use on Lost Temple a standard, or were there specific things in-game that made you decide to do that?
If so, what?
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Thanks Artosis, this is pretty sweet.
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These are so helpful... no words.
Thank you.
Also, the Korean client sounds sooooo much better than English.
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On September 27 2010 13:29 ShaperofDreams wrote:
Artosis was your nydus use on Lost Temple a standard, or were there specific things in-game that made you decide to do that?
If so, what?
He saw that his opponent was 1) opposite side of the map and 2) fast expanding. I'm 100% sure that his game plan was to abuse the high ground at the opponents natural with nydus hydra while safely taking the islands for himself to pull way ahead in the macro game.
Anyways, I have my own question for you Artosis. In the ZvZ game you saw that he kinda sim city'd his base with a sunken and was going for roaches. At the time you were in his base you had a baneling nest but opted to cancel it. Is there any particular reason why you cancelled it instead of making 6 banelings on the spot and trying to micro them into his mineral line? Also, when is it a viable time to go roaches? I feel like whenever I open up with roaches, it just gives my opponent complete map control (like you had map control on bs). But then whenever I opt to speedling/baneling, I play against these roach users that hit some huge timed attack that own my speedlings even in huge numbers. Not sure if that last one was a question but would love to hear your insight on that.
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Anyways, I have my own question for you Artosis. In the ZvZ game you saw that he kinda sim city'd his base with a sunken and was going for roaches. At the time you were in his base you had a baneling nest but opted to cancel it. Is there any particular reason why you cancelled it instead of making 6 banelings on the spot and trying to micro them into his mineral line? Also, when is it a viable time to go roaches? I feel like whenever I open up with roaches, it just gives my opponent complete map control (like you had map control on bs). But then whenever I opt to speedling/baneling, I play against these roach users that hit some huge timed attack that own my speedlings even in huge numbers. Not sure if that last one was a question but would love to hear your insight on that.
I imagine it's because throwing your Banelings at Drones is often a risky play, especially with the sim city. He canceled the Baneling Nest knowing that he was ahead in macro (pulling guys off of gas as well), and kept pumping Drones. He continued to scout with his lings for a Lair, and possible expo. Managing to get an expo up himself, he found that his opponents only option was a roach all-in, getting Roaches out himself to compliment the Lings.
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Much fond thankings from a lowly ling. You are most certainly teh oarsome and the (insectoid denizens of the) internets bow(s) down in abject gratitude.
No seriously this is fantasic, at my level anyway this is definitely more helpful than just casts or bare replays. Thank you!
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Artosis
United States2140 Posts
On September 27 2010 12:56 ShazbotZerg wrote:
I was interested in the ZvZ because I run into the same problem where my opponent has built 3+ spine crawlers in their base and my planned baneling/ling attack isn't going to work. I saw that you responded to his roaches with your own and that makes sense. Even the expansion makes sense since the rush distances on blistering sands are long and roaches are slow. Why did the game end when it did? Edit: Probably a d/c
If he was going for lair/spire, what would you have done instead?
Yah it was a disc. Vs mutas i will o infestor or queens, depending on whats happened so far.
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so the patch is coming by the end of year (in Blizzard time) And it will probably just be a small change like this one. Assuming it keeps going at this rate how long would you say until the game becomes balanced? Also why don't you switch to terran because you played terran in sc1 and I think you would be great. Now back to the games. Why did you cancel your hatch when you saw he got a cannon up? It seems that you held it off well enough so that the cannons couldnt even reach it.
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Artosis
United States2140 Posts
On September 27 2010 12:56 zomgtossrush wrote:
First off thanks for the zerg fpvods, it will greatly help round out my zerg. And great job with the GSL commentary.
In the first game(terrible cliffhanger!):
1.Why did you opt for the double gas hydra build? Would you ever consider doing a speedling/or even modified oversky to follow up with the cannon break? I feel like it could be possible after seeing the 2 pylon+cannon commitment, and knowing xel has alot of ground to cover for the protoss, to safely cover his expo, and his ramp.
2. What was the point in the changeling drop in the middle of the micro battle at the P front door?
3. Do you think you were too aggressive with the last of your ultras in the tail end of battles? Would it have been a better decision of saving 1-2 ultras instead of hunting down the remaining units?
ZvP on Xel, in the first game you were forced to hydra, in the 2nd game you also choice hydra, is this a play style choice? Map dependent? Would muta openings be possible, and if so, why do you prefer hydras? Or was it just a "flavor of the day" sort of game.
In the ZvZ game, after seeing the roach warren, and no 2nd gas, and a spine, did you ever consider trying to open 1 base muta? Considering your map vision and 1 base mutas mineral-light build(meaning you could still have a roach warren just in case) What advantages or disadvantages did your choice to try to play mirror build but with an economy edge have?
Thanks again!
Q1. Hydra is pretty safe as a followup. Lings get kinda owned by lots of sentries, so i sometimes avoid them. Im still trying out new stuff vs cannon tho. Hydra just seems safest atm.
Q2. If you put a changeling in at that time, he may not see it and u will be able to watch him after the battle.
Q3. Ya, retarded of me to chase there.
Q4. Hydra is really safe early, it stops anything. Muta openings are gamble gamble.
Q5. 1 base muta, and muta overall, is bad if countered correctly. Mirror build with better eco is free win if played correctly.
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EPT
