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Hello TL! My name is moonling and i am a 800 Diamond Zerg player and i have been tinkering around with this build since the latest patch. I thought to myself with going 15 gas 14 pool so much i have had excess minerals and this is where i came up with the following strategy. (actually i won't take full credit because i got it from a game done by MadFrog)
9 Ovie
15 (inbase hatch)
15 gas
14 pool
16 queen/ovie
2 zerglings and then at 20 FE to your natural
Basically here is the pro's of this build whenever i need to drone hard i can saturate my new base instantly since i already have 2 hatches and on top of that my army production is off the chart with 3 bases so early in the game I have 2 Replays atm 1 ZvP (Where i was 4 gated and just mass speedling until he couldn't keep up with my army production http://www.gamereplays.org/starcraft2/replays.php?game=33&show=details&id=151799
1 ZvZ against a 1k Zerg this one was close and i won just because of unit production and upgrades http://www.gamereplays.org/starcraft2/replays.php?game=33&show=details&id=151800
I'm working on a good replay right now for a ZvT which it defiantly works for as well just trying to get a good replay
EDIT: Its also all about scouting very important and please discuss flaws of my build or how i can improve it.
I'll try to update with more replays and respond to questions as much as possible tired so gonna go to bed 
Edit ZvT with Hellion Harrass and then he goes for a mech death army http://www.gamereplays.org/starcraft2/replays.php?game=33&show=details&id=151980 Here is a replay of a terran doing hellion harrass with drops and doing a significant drone damage but becasue i have so much larva i can drone up instantly while maintaining army and end up steam rolling his terran death mech army
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Dimaga hatched first inside base? you have a link to that replay?
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I think Madfrog did that build too against sjow in the go4sc2, don't have the replay though.
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i like this build. ive been tampering with it alot. had marginal success i will get some replays together. although im only silver
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I don't see a lot of pros going in base hatch early game. But here are some problems with a ZvZ since I play zerg. I am 900 Plat and used early in base hatches up to plat but they became ineffective at a higher level for me personally.
Main reason it fails is ZvZ is you really need those 300 minerals for zerglings or spines. I tend to run 5 fast banelings + zerglings into the a base early and without enough minerals dedicated to early aggressive defense I destroy their worker line. Then you have 2 hatches with no money to use on them.
This is why I stopped using the in base hatch. Also fails against reapers or hellions and a 2 gate zealot push.
EDIT: Removed 4 gate potential after watching the replay
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Russian Federation114 Posts
On September 25 2010 18:13 GeMan wrote:
Also fails against reapers or hellions and a 2 gate zealot push. This would set you back enough to fall to a 4 gate as well in my opinion.
The inbase hatch sure fails in ZvZ, but against reapers it is actually quite efffective if you delay your expand until you get roaches, you can then saturate your expand off two hatches. There was a post on TL describing this strategy a few weeks ago: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=151721.
The additional hatch can also be used to create a choke at the bottom of your ramp which can help to prevent helions from sneaking into your main.
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There is no reason in ZvT or ZvP not to 14 hatch or pool/hatch now. You can go pool/hatch/gas or hatch/pool/gas if you really need ling speed quickly.
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Why would you want such an early third hatch? it makes no sense to me.. you dont have the resources anyway
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Just a question cause i like that kind of build. In fact, i like every BO that don't include roaches or hydra ( they're so damn slow ). ^^
Do you think that it would be possible with that build to handle a 2 gate zealot push with queens ?
Let say you place your second in base hatch on the ramp, place a spine crawler maybe, and have like two queens. I'm not sure we can afford all of those in time, i guess i need a practice partner to find out, but maybe some of you here have an idea.
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On September 25 2010 17:53 TheMexican wrote:
I think Madfrog did that build too against sjow in the go4sc2, don't have the replay though.
That's who I copied the build from. It works very well. You can drone very hard off 2 hatches in main while protecting with 2 queens and scouting. If they get pretty heavy on reapers - build more queens put down roach warren while still dronning. If they try to go hellions u can expand a little sooner and defend with whatever you please (either spines or roaches or speedlings). By the time your natural is up you have enough drones to saturate it. You lair should be done around the time u maynard drones to natural (with gas already up so you can start ur spire and depending on his combo either get roach speed or baneling nest). It really catches one base terran off guard since your income is soooooo much better early on. =)
I tried it today for the first time. 3 out of 3 against ~1100 Terrans. =)
I can post the replays (I'm sure I saved them) but I can't promise they're VERY entertaining xD
On September 25 2010 18:35 DarKFoRcE wrote:
Why would you want such an early third hatch? it makes no sense to me.. you dont have the resources anyway
I thought you were pretty good! XD jk jk
You get 2 hatches in main to get 2 queens up very fast for defense and drone twice as hard. I mean I'm sure you can find a lot of holes in the build, especially on a higher level but it's worth giving it a try imo. Maybe you can get some higher level games going on EU servers and upload videos with the results XD
PS: I have not tried this build vs toss but it seems to work pretty well vs T. I'm sure it can work vs protoss as well. I mean lings aren't too bad vs toss. Ling+queens should be able to stop early zealot pressure (with spines later).
What this build allows u to do is have TONS of larva for drones and lings if needed. You get your lair very early while feeling pretty safe (imo). I'll post replays of my ZvT's.
Edit: One of the replays. More to come later.
![[image loading]](http://www.gamereplays.org/community/uploads/repimgs/repimg-33-151834.jpg)
I mean by the time he managed to push my income was tripling his? XD I think I overdid it.
Granted it's not the best Terran out there ~1100 I think. I'm not the best zerg either xP
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On September 25 2010 19:46 Darkn3ss wrote:Edit: One of the replays. More to come later. I mean by the time he managed to push my income was tripling his? XD I think I overdid it. Granted it's not the best Terran out there ~1100 I think. I'm not the best zerg either xP
Arg, i like this BO, don't get me wrong, but seriously this Terran is a good rated diamand ? He wasn't on that game, i don't know.
I'm low diamand, maybe 400/500 and i'm pretty sceptical when i see a player who stick on one base with less than 30 SCV for an entire game. Even i do better :p
This BO seems to counter early reaper quite well ( and with no gas needed which is why i love that ), but after that, that game was already over.
Also, i'd love to see some "sim city" with that second hatch. There is no reason i can see now to place it near the first hatch. It could be placed near the ramp, or the cliff on lost temple, also can be used to spread creep.
Still for the educational aspect, it's nice to see you saturate the expend and how the additional hatch helps.
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I find the 3rd hatch in my base helps with blowing excess queen energy once it's built up, because of micro issues during battles. 2 queens throwing down tons of spores doesn't make sense, but one queen supporting 2 hatches with her spew ability keeps her nice and low, while the other can blow off excess energy with spores.
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On September 25 2010 19:46 Darkn3ss wrote:Show nested quote +On September 25 2010 17:53 TheMexican wrote:
I think Madfrog did that build too against sjow in the go4sc2, don't have the replay though. That's who I copied the build from. It works very well.
I assume you mean this game?:
http://www.sc2rep.com/replays/show/id/1592
I think that was a result of not wanting to take the wide-open nat and instead taking the backyard a bit later. That build isn't really needed for any other map.
Anyway not sure what you mean by "works very well", as MaDFroG lost that match pretty badly. He was behind 20-30 supply almost all game, had 12+ larvae stockpiled by 11 minutes, took way too long to get drones, and had almost no army when SjoW attacked. The build is not good IMO.
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Normally i can handle 2 gate pressure by just getting 1 more queen and 2 spine crawlers and just pumping speedlings and to DarkForce its funny though i find i do have the resources this is a very aggressive build as zerg it lets you either Pump MANY units or A lot of Drones and either way its a win win.
To the Hellion Push person this build is not centered around going mass speedling if he is going hellions i just throw down a roach warren however if i can hold it off with just mass speedling i will until i tech to muta.
Scouting is still key and i'm about to upload several more Replays to show off how effective it is. Yes Madfrog lost the match but he also macro'd horribly didn't drone efficiently and just never built a army maybe he is still tinkering with the build but madfrog's build is not necessarily myn i just got the idea from him
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On September 25 2010 17:13 Toosneaky wrote:
Dimaga hatched first inside base? you have a link to that replay?
Sorry i meant Mad frog 
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On September 26 2010 01:29 BlasiuS wrote:Show nested quote +On September 25 2010 19:46 Darkn3ss wrote:On September 25 2010 17:53 TheMexican wrote:
I think Madfrog did that build too against sjow in the go4sc2, don't have the replay though. That's who I copied the build from. It works very well. I assume you mean this game?: http://www.sc2rep.com/replays/show/id/1592I think that was a result of not wanting to take the wide-open nat and instead taking the backyard a bit later. That build isn't really needed for any other map. Anyway not sure what you mean by "works very well", as MaDFroG lost that match pretty badly. He was behind 20-30 supply almost all game, had 12+ larvae stockpiled by 11 minutes, took way too long to get drones, and had almost no army when SjoW attacked. The build is not good IMO.
No that's actually not the game that inspired me. It's on HD's youtube channel. He didn't do THAT great in that game either (even tho he won) but it inspired me to try it either way. I did. Tweaked it to my liking and so far I'm pretty happy with it. Obviously it's not an unbeatable build. It also depends on the map... but I wouldn't just dismiss it as something useless... XP
On September 25 2010 22:30 Super_bricklayer wrote:Show nested quote +On September 25 2010 19:46 Darkn3ss wrote:Edit: One of the replays. More to come later. I mean by the time he managed to push my income was tripling his? XD I think I overdid it. Granted it's not the best Terran out there ~1100 I think. I'm not the best zerg either xP Arg, i like this BO, don't get me wrong, but seriously this Terran is a good rated diamand ? He wasn't on that game, i don't know. I'm low diamand, maybe 400/500 and i'm pretty sceptical when i see a player who stick on one base with less than 30 SCV for an entire game. Even i do better :p This BO seems to counter early reaper quite well ( and with no gas needed which is why i love that ), but after that, that game was already over. Also, i'd love to see some "sim city" with that second hatch. There is no reason i can see now to place it near the first hatch. It could be placed near the ramp, or the cliff on lost temple, also can be used to spread creep. Still for the educational aspect, it's nice to see you saturate the expend and how the additional hatch helps.
Well I did say he's not the BEST Terran out there... but, once again as I mentioned, I'm not a pro either... So it doesn't work too bad on ladder. xP
Here are replays against 2 more ~1200 Terrans. Both expand and both have different play styles/unit combos.
NOT the most entertaining games but once again... it did get me wins! XD
2 Hatch on Steppes.
![[image loading]](http://www.gamereplays.org/community/uploads/repimgs/repimg-33-151992.jpg)
Note that even after a pretty successful hellion harass I'm able to replenish my drones extremely fast. I didn't play my best since I'm not 100% comfortable with the build. If I'd played a bit better in terms of macro, etc I could have probably steamrolled him.
2 Hatch on Metal
![[image loading]](http://www.gamereplays.org/community/uploads/repimgs/repimg-33-151995.jpg)
This terran early expoes as well and I still stay ahead in econ throughout the whole game. I got pretty lucky when I was able to snipe his armory. It delayed thors quite a bit. As a result he ended up being more tank heavy when he pushed out. Since by that time I was almost on 4 bases (3 ~full bases vs 1.5) I just sac'd my ground army to take out his main push. With 5 hatcheries it was pretty easy to rebuild a big enough army to take him out.
Didn't see this replay but it sounds like my game on Steppes. Even if you get harassed you can still get right back up! XD
So there you have it people! You got 2 zerg scrubs telling you that this build is pretty successful on casual ladder. Take it however you want to take it =)
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Going off what darkforce said you shouldn't have extra resources to pop tons of larva at once. If you are macroing properly your resources will be low without the in base hatch and you should already have enough defense to stop the harassment mentioned above.
If you watch a large majority of pro zerg replays you will see their resources remain low and their larva count is just fine.
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On September 28 2010 14:09 GeMan wrote:
Going off what darkforce said you shouldn't have extra resources to pop tons of larva at once. If you are macroing properly your resources will be low without the in base hatch and you should already have enough defense to stop the harassment mentioned above.
If you watch a large majority of pro zerg replays you will see their resources remain low and their larva count is just fine.
Well if everyone were pro there wouldn't a problem, right? But for some reason a lot of zerg are having problems with early harass/defending main and expo at the same time.
What this build allows is 2 queens at the time you'd normally have one and A LOT of early drones. So basically you defend without spending any larva on units or drones on spines... By the time you expo you're so saturated in main that you can maynard drones and have fully saturated expo. Scout what T is doing and decide tech route from there.
I lost one game today with this build but I played like shit all day. It's 95 degrees right now and it's 11pm (Los Angeles) so you can imagine how hot it was during the day. I don't have an A/C in my room til tomorrow! =P
In that game the guy basically harassed the shit out of me with banshees. I had the means to defend easily but failed to control my queens properly. Macro slipped and when he pushed I wasn't able to stop him with what I had. If I'd controlled my queens a bit better or just got a spore or 2, I would've been sitting on 3 base NICELY with income tripling his.
I wouldn't dismiss this build because you don't see "pros" do it. If you have no trouble with zerg while doing what pros do - good for you!
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Another one vs ~1300 Terran.
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I tend to get my third hatch in-base vs. Protoss (need to spam units to match Warpgate spam), but I don't think it's needed that early. With the Reaper and Zealot build time nerfs I find it easier to just FE now, and then I can pop two Queens at the same time. A third hatch would help in saturating the nat faster, sure, but I think you can do it fast enough with just two Queens + two hatches.
I'll give it a try though, can't hurt.
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On October 02 2010 05:34 archon256 wrote:
I tend to get my third hatch in-base vs. Protoss (need to spam units to match Warpgate spam), but I don't think it's needed that early. With the Reaper and Zealot build time nerfs I find it easier to just FE now, and then I can pop two Queens at the same time. A third hatch would help in saturating the nat faster, sure, but I think you can do it fast enough with just two Queens + two hatches.
I'll give it a try though, can't hurt.
Well it doesn't make sense to in-base vs P because their means of early harass are completely different. You actually want to take your natural early and defend it with queens/spines/lings if you have to. It's better than being contained with zealots on ur ramp or something like that.
With terran it's a bit different. Due to high mobility/cliff jumping of their harass units, it's much harder to defend 2 different locations early game. (VS toss drop a spine or 2 and get some lings/queens and toss can't get into your main/nat but Terran can avoid static defense easily so you need actual units.)
I'm 5 out of 6 with this build. (I don't really count the game I lost because I just played like shit. If I'd played a bit better I would've won. Basically I had the means to win ezpz but just failed. It was like 100degrees in my room that day so I was a lil off. -.-)
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I'v increased up the ladder to 1k now not quite as high as Darkn3ss but still doing fairly well this build really does have its advantages your mid-game will EXPLODE and zerg late game is good enough as it is
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EPT![[image loading]](http://www.gamereplays.org/community/uploads/repimgs/repimg-33-153800.jpg)
