EPT[G] How To Stop A 6 Pool ZvP - Page 11
| Forum Index > StarCraft 2 Strategy |
|
Thurokiir
United States779 Posts
| ||
|
Darthturtle
United States718 Posts
On September 30 2010 11:07 Thurokiir wrote: I just scout off 6 every ladder game. People are trash. Have fun in silver. | ||
|
Partypants
Australia50 Posts
| ||
|
Darthturtle
United States718 Posts
On September 30 2010 13:14 Partypants wrote: 8 gate , problem solved lol You'd have to like, six pylon or something to eight gate. Way to lose against every gamer on the planet. | ||
|
Markwerf
Netherlands3728 Posts
If you make a guide it's better to make one about more difficult cases, for example when you scout a zerg last on LT and you started off with gateway. Making a guide that says forge first beats 6 pool is beyond obvious really.. The whole point about 6 pools is having a build that can beat it if you went with a normal build and scout it relatively in time. | ||
|
Skrag
United States643 Posts
On September 30 2010 21:12 Markwerf wrote: The whole point about 6 pools is having a build that can beat it if you went with a normal build and scout it relatively in time. And a 6pool fails at doing this unless the protoss player fucks up. It's seriously quite possibly the easiest cheese in the game to stop. | ||
|
Arcanefrost
Belgium1257 Posts
 | ||
|
PeT[uK]
United States412 Posts
the reason this is so successful is because this build is hard to scout. you wont know its coming. but still i would like to know if there is a clear cut normal build that will stop this on steppes. even if it was a blind counter. so i know what to look for so i can change up the build. if you need the build order i can PM it to you if you'd like | ||
|
Khaladas
United States223 Posts
Yesterday I scouted a 6 pool, he actually waited another cycle and brought like 10 zerglings into my base (with 2 more trailing after that ) and I was using the method where I block with 2GW + a pylon. Here is the replay: ![[image loading]](http://www.gamereplays.org/community/uploads/repimgs/repimg-33-153531.jpg) Here's some problems I ran into. The gateways are wide, so plenty of zerglings can attack them, making them go down fairly fast. If you try to rally your zealots outside the base 2 things can happen: 1. If they don't pop out 2 at a time, they just get eaten alive (maybe not if theres only 6 zerglings but 8-10 certainly) and sometimes don't even kill one zergling, especially if they micro them. 2. The zerglings actually block the 'pathing' of rallying outside the wall so even though you try to rally there, the zealots pop inside your base. Once a gateway goes down it's down to whether you cranked out enough zealots to chew through the zerglings. In my case I didn't quite have enough by the time the GW went down and the game went downhill from there. I dunno, I'm sure I could have done better in lots of areas, but i'm starting to just think build a forge/cannon and be done with it. | ||
|
Shikyo
Finland33997 Posts
I really think you can just defend vs this with workers only. | ||
|
Cyber_Cheese
Australia3615 Posts
| ||
|
Cheerio
Ukraine3178 Posts
On October 01 2010 03:27 Shikyo wrote: Meh just now I had a 14pool vs 6pool ZvZ. defended with 14 drones so that I killed 3 lings and got 3 to red HP while losing 6 workers, then got my own Zerglings out. I really think you can just defend vs this with workers only. Fruitdealer does not agree with you. I guess he is more trustworthy. | ||
|
LOLtex
United States148 Posts
On October 01 2010 03:27 Shikyo wrote: Meh just now I had a 14pool vs 6pool ZvZ. defended with 14 drones so that I killed 3 lings and got 3 to red HP while losing 6 workers, then got my own Zerglings out. I really think you can just defend vs this with workers only. It's a little different for protoss because any 6 pooler is going to go straight for the pylon to cut zealot production, and then to the probe line. Since our pool is literally a half second from our mineral line, or , whereas the pylon is going to be at the entrance ramp, the lost time in mining defending your pylon (or even worse, letting it fall) vs the 6 pool would ultimately kill the Protoss shortly thereafter. | ||
|
Skrag
United States643 Posts
On October 01 2010 03:23 Nasdrova wrote: I dunno, I'm sure I could have done better in lots of areas, but i'm starting to just think build a forge/cannon and be done with it. Your first probe wasn't rallied to minerals, your first pylon was late, you had probes sitting around doing nothing, you didn't continue probe production, and you blocked yourself completely in but rallied zealots to the outside, letting them die one at a time, which led to your wall going down without having enough zealots behind the wall when it fell. If you're going to completely block off, 2 gates and a pylon is the worst possible way to do so. | ||
|
Skrag
United States643 Posts
On October 01 2010 03:58 LOLtex wrote: It's a little different for protoss because any 6 pooler is going to go straight for the pylon to cut zealot production, and then to the probe line. Since our pool is literally a half second from our mineral line, or , whereas the pylon is going to be at the entrance ramp, the lost time in mining defending your pylon (or even worse, letting it fall) vs the 6 pool would ultimately kill the Protoss shortly thereafter. Watch my reps please. 6pool doesn't kill anything unless you screw something up. And yes, the pro players that are losing to this, in every high level 6pool loss I have seen so far (huk to machine, inca to fruitdealer, and kiwikaki to dimaga), lost because they screwed something up. | ||
|
johngalt90
United States357 Posts
| ||
|
Shikyo
Finland33997 Posts
On October 01 2010 03:53 Cheerio wrote: Fruitdealer does not agree with you. I guess he is more trustworthy. Oh, fruitdealer lost while defending with workers? On October 01 2010 03:58 LOLtex wrote: It's a little different for protoss because any 6 pooler is going to go straight for the pylon to cut zealot production, and then to the probe line. Since our pool is literally a half second from our mineral line, or , whereas the pylon is going to be at the entrance ramp, the lost time in mining defending your pylon (or even worse, letting it fall) vs the 6 pool would ultimately kill the Protoss shortly thereafter. Well building at ramp is awful vs 6pool in general, I think that the only option you have if you don't scout it is to clog your ramp up with all your probes and try to boost a zealot out. On October 01 2010 07:20 johngalt90 wrote: Do u guys think blocking the ramp of the Zerg would be an effective solution to buy time to get your zealots up? first impression says: absolutely | ||
|
Darthturtle
United States718 Posts
On October 01 2010 03:53 Cheerio wrote: Fruitdealer does not agree with you. I guess he is more trustworthy. Fruitdealer played one 6 pool on a map that was highly unfavored to zerg. Regardless of whether he won or not, he 6 pooled because he would've finished faster and gotten to the other maps sooner. Inca had piss-poor defense. Oh sure, his micro was cute, but his overall defensive plan was terribad. I can have perfect micro, but that doesn't mean a 6 worker all-in is some sort of good aggressive play, for example. There are other factors that contributed to Inca's loss that have nothing to do with the 6pool being hard to defend with standard. We all know that Spunky already stated that he planned out this elaborate strategy for Inca to PvZ on this map, so someone who's probably busy setting up for all sorts of awesome harass and timing attacks probably isn't ready for six lings to get crammed down his throat. Mentally, Inca might already have been defeated. Inca was forced to cancel his wall because he got himself broke and needed the minerals. But if he left half his probes mining while the other half took out the immediate zergling threat, he wouldn't have to cancel the core. Inca already made two bad plays at this point: 1 - Pulling probes to defend way too late. 2 - pulling too many probes. Then his probe defense was what lost him the game. He let zerg get the absolute best position possible there, managing somehow to use his own gateway and choke to forcehimself into a bad concave. Maybe I'm not giving Fruitdealer enough credit for forcing an engagement at the best possible spot for zerg, but to be honest, I don't feel that was forced at all. Just bad positioning by Inca. Two inches forward or two inches back, and Inca would have gotten a huge surround on the zerglings and easily killed them all without heavy losses. | ||
|
Skrag
United States643 Posts
On October 01 2010 07:43 Darthturtle wrote: Inca already made two bad plays at this point: 1 - Pulling probes to defend way too late. 2 - pulling too many probes. You forgot #3: not double-powering the gate. I have always double-powered my starting buildings ever since the first time a fast rush managed to take down my pylon leaving me dead in the water. Why pros seem to not do this as a simple matter of habit is completely beyond me. The third pylon can go wherever you need it to go, but the second should always be in proximity to the first. | ||
|
Skrag
United States643 Posts
On October 01 2010 07:24 Shikyo wrote: Well building at ramp is awful vs 6pool in general, I think that the only option you have if you don't scout it is to clog your ramp up with all your probes and try to boost a zealot out. Not building at the ramp if they don't 6 pool can be much worse than building on the ramp against a 6 pool. I always build at the top of the ramp against zerg or protoss, and the reps I've posted in this thread show me defending a 6pool (from a much much better player than me, even though he's not a zerg player) just fine with a 13gate at the ramp, even though I messed up quite a bit on micro and continuing to build zealots and probes. | ||
| ||
