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On September 28 2011 05:04 CaptainPlatypus wrote:Show nested quote +On September 28 2011 04:51 zerker2strong wrote:
can someone please help me by watching this replay against a protoss and give me some tips and pointers of what im doing wrong.
because since patch 1.4 i try to play without infestors the more roach hydra corrupter style but i just cant seem to win when he got more then 5 colossus out :/ I'll watch this when I'm home from work and try to give replay/specific tips on winning with this composition, but I was having a lot of trouble with the same thing until recently. I just could never seem to beat deathballs once the colossus count got too high. The best solution I found was just going muta/ling/bling instead of roach. Map control from a super mobile, threatening, harass-friendly army means a bigger macro advantage, and protoss doesn't really have a straight-up counter other than phoenixes (storms and archons are both a LOT worse against muta than in bw, in my experience). You can more or less control the entire game with an upgraded muta/ling force, and if you see 2+ stargate phoenix, that's a good excuse to transition into a corruptor/broodlord force, which you'll have more than enough gas to clean up with thanks to the map control you got with muta/ling. Show nested quote +On September 28 2011 05:02 Soluhwin wrote:Honestly, there is no reason to change your playstyle after 1.4. If you look at the actual critical values changed by the fungal damage... quite honestly nothing has changed. In addition, nothing was done to buff roach/hydra/corruptor, it's still just bad. In my play since then (and that of most zergs I've talked to) it's a lot harder to get off neural on colossi than before, which means it's really, really hard to keep your army alive. The only real options are having a different way to kill colossi (corruptors, mutas) or being a lot better at using infestors than I am. Since, well, I can't do the latter by definition, I choose to go for the former.
did u watch it yet ?
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On September 28 2011 06:11 Monkeyballs25 wrote:
Any tips on holding off a 4rax attack in close positions on Shattered Temple when you go hatch first?
I saw the 3 rax at his ramp at 5:46 with the fourth out of sight, and the earliest I could have seen them is 4:25. He had 23 workers and sent out 10 marines at 6:10, they reached my natural at 6:40. I only had 1 spine, 3 slow lings and 2 queens plus 21 drones, with 2 more spines just halfway done. So I obviously got wrecked.
This seems kind of odd to me, at 5:30 i usually have 2 spines and 3 Queens rdy for the hellion harras! Maybe add a replay and I can tell you what went wrong.
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On September 28 2011 04:51 zerker2strong wrote:can someone please help me by watching this replay against a protoss and give me some tips and pointers of what im doing wrong. because since patch 1.4 i try to play without infestors the more roach hydra corrupter style but i just cant seem to win when he got more then 5 colossus out :/ ![[image loading]](http://www.gamereplays.org/community/uploads/repimgs/repimg-33-234634.jpg)
This map is bad for roach/hydra timings.
You missed a huge opportunity to kill him when he took his third with only sentries, a few stalkers and only 4 gateways to reinforce from.
Corruptor/Roach/Hydra is extremely supply inefficient. You need a significant lead for it to work. You didn't have corruptors out for the first fight, you didn't fight on creep and you didn't completely surround him to focus fire colossus so you lost.
You had no infestors or banelings or zerglings in the final fight. You didn't even have a banelings nest. Either make banelings or infested terrans and fungal. You need some dps. Roaches just don't cut it alone and hydras are only good for anti air.
Other then that your macro was good and so was your creep spread you just aren't responding properly to the protoss.
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On September 28 2011 21:12 ManiacTheZealot wrote:Show nested quote +On September 28 2011 04:51 zerker2strong wrote:can someone please help me by watching this replay against a protoss and give me some tips and pointers of what im doing wrong. because since patch 1.4 i try to play without infestors the more roach hydra corrupter style but i just cant seem to win when he got more then 5 colossus out :/ This map is bad for roach/hydra timings. You missed a huge opportunity to kill him when he took his third with only sentries, a few stalkers and only 4 gateways to reinforce from. Corruptor/Roach/Hydra is extremely supply inefficient. You need a significant lead for it to work. You didn't have corruptors out for the first fight, you didn't fight on creep and you didn't completely surround him to focus fire colossus so you lost. You had no infestors or banelings or zerglings in the final fight. You didn't even have a banelings nest. Either make banelings or infested terrans and fungal. You need some dps. Roaches just don't cut it alone and hydras are only good for anti air. Other then that your macro was good and so was your creep spread you just aren't responding properly to the protoss.
thanks for watching and giving some feedback il try to pay more attention to those things and see if i can punish it better and yeah i really gave him his third for free
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On September 28 2011 06:11 Monkeyballs25 wrote:
Any tips on holding off a 4rax attack in close positions on Shattered Temple when you go hatch first?
I saw the 3 rax at his ramp at 5:46 with the fourth out of sight, and the earliest I could have seen them is 4:25. He had 23 workers and sent out 10 marines at 6:10, they reached my natural at 6:40. I only had 1 spine, 3 slow lings and 2 queens plus 21 drones, with 2 more spines just halfway done. So I obviously got wrecked.
Well I've never faced it on close positions but it should be the exact same except hit earlier. I useally hold it off with pure Lings and Queens doing the aXas "Lets start the agression" build. But on close positions getting enough Lings to deal with it would be difficult so I would throw down a few Spines if its just Marines 1-3 Spines will do just to defend all the areas the Marines can walk into. If they pull SCVs more Spines would be needed. Try to target the Marines with the Spines as the SCVs aren't the DPS. Keep 2 guys on gas and throw down a Evo chamber around 70~ gas and get +1 Melee. Note if he pulls everything cancel the upgrade its just to put you in the lead if you hold off the attack and makes you strong against any further pushes.
Some say carapace but I like to have Melee. if you have to sac the expansion I useally don't have to but if its a Marine/SCV allin I sac the expo kill the push in my main or chase it down with Speedlings afterwards. Just play it safe if you haven't scouted him and if you do happen to scout it play heavy on defense. Getting speed out as early as possible is never a bad thing to do. I have had problems holding off mass Marine builds with Roaches only so I stick to Lings in ZvT.
Spines really do destroy Marines though, 2 hits per Marine, they can easily target them down with alot of Marines with ease but if they do that your Lings can get free hits on his Marines just be sure not to engage away from the Crawlers. But Lost Temple is hard to cover your expo with Crawlers. Do not tech to Baneling any good Terran will be able to crush you when you have Banelings.
Be sure to block the Marines from coming into your main or you have just lost the game.(If you invested in crawlers) making a extra Queen for transfuse isn't a bad idea either. Also if you scout it lay down a tumor, Spread it whenever you get the chance. But close position vs Terran on Lost Temple is hard anyways
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On September 28 2011 06:11 Monkeyballs25 wrote:
Any tips on holding off a 4rax attack in close positions on Shattered Temple when you go hatch first?
I saw the 3 rax at his ramp at 5:46 with the fourth out of sight, and the earliest I could have seen them is 4:25. He had 23 workers and sent out 10 marines at 6:10, they reached my natural at 6:40. I only had 1 spine, 3 slow lings and 2 queens plus 21 drones, with 2 more spines just halfway done. So I obviously got wrecked.
I really hate to tell you this but you're not going to win against a semi competent terran close positions on shattered temple. Its extremely likely you'll lose to a fast 2 rax with a lot of scv's and if you don't you're eventually going to lose when he puts a planetary at the gold base right in front of you. So you should plan to do some sort of all in or thumbs down the map and hope blizzard takes the hint.
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On September 28 2011 21:03 M1cha84 wrote:Show nested quote +On September 28 2011 06:11 Monkeyballs25 wrote:
Any tips on holding off a 4rax attack in close positions on Shattered Temple when you go hatch first?
I saw the 3 rax at his ramp at 5:46 with the fourth out of sight, and the earliest I could have seen them is 4:25. He had 23 workers and sent out 10 marines at 6:10, they reached my natural at 6:40. I only had 1 spine, 3 slow lings and 2 queens plus 21 drones, with 2 more spines just halfway done. So I obviously got wrecked.
This seems kind of odd to me, at 5:30 i usually have 2 spines and 3 Queens rdy for the hellion harras! Maybe add a replay and I can tell you what went wrong.
Well when I watched the replay again I noticed some awful macro mistakes due to spending too long babysitting the scouting drone in his base. I suupose the main question would be what I *should* have had by then
From your and the other replies I gather the answer is
-2 spines, which can also cover against hellion harass if he goes that route. Maybe a third in close positions
-1 more queen at the natural, which can block the ramp if he goes hellions, help defend against banshees and spread creep otherwise
Just one more question, should I be getting gas and lingspeed right after the pool? I normally delay it a bit more and this is the first time I've been caught out.
Also I gather that roaches and banelings are not a viable option that early in the matchup when he's aggressive. Is this correct?
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I've got a question about the 7 Roach Rush opening. Is this considered an antiqued opener, because I never hear about it any more? Secondly, is this considered cheese or a standard opener?
I'm considering using this as my standard opener in vP to eventually transition into roach/corruptor (which I never hear anything about either). If the protoss makes the natural switch to Immortals I should be able to easily go roach/ling or even a total switch to muta/ling.
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On September 30 2011 23:21 Molten-elmnt wrote:
I've got a question about the 7 Roach Rush opening. Is this considered an antiqued opener, because I never hear about it any more? Secondly, is this considered cheese or a standard opener?
I'm considering using this as my standard opener in vP to eventually transition into roach/corruptor (which I never hear anything about either). If the protoss makes the natural switch to Immortals I should be able to easily go roach/ling or even a total switch to muta/ling.
7rr is both std/cheese- Std as after 7 roaches you will have enuff gold for a hatch , cheese as well its next to 6 pool ^^ but a lot depends on good OL placement at the ramp and probe not scouting the warren..
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Hi, I'm a gold level zerg (top 8 rank) yet in a zvz I cannot for the life of me defend against a muta harrass. I usually use hydras to try to defend but they just dont cut it, so I was wondering how do I defend against a early muta tech (either 1 base or early 2 base) while expanding to get my 3rd? (I'm never able to get my third safely cuz the person usually goes so many mutas.
This would help immensely as every zvz I do they always go early muta (which seems pretty retarded only i cant stop it  )
btw, getting 7 zvz's and losing every one of them sucks.
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So, I go Spanishiwa style where I go 13 hatch 15 pool.
Then I make spines at my natural.
At 40 I take all 4 gases.
If this is ZvZ I most likely get muta rushed.
How can I fend this off?
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Canada20 Posts
I have a couple of builds against toss, my favorite being baneling bombs, speedling and roach with melee/carapace upgrades. I find myself winning most of my games with this, however if an opponent ever opens with any stargate play, I always lose 100% of the time. I simply dont know how to deal with it. Stargate play is effective at stopping me from expanding and hydras are a bit of a waste of gas that I'd rather spend on banelings and upgrades. Thanks a lot
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On October 01 2011 08:39 Flossy wrote:
So, I go Spanishiwa style where I go 13 hatch 15 pool.
Then I make spines at my natural.
At 40 I take all 4 gases.
If this is ZvZ I most likely get muta rushed.
How can I fend this off?
You can't go Ice Fisher in ZvZ. It just doesn't work. You have NO map control at all, and you're right, you SHOULD get muta rushed. You then have to put down a TON of spores and just sit in your base, then mutas force you to sit in your base even more until you have like 4 spores at both bases + hydras + infestor tech coming, THEN you have to push before Ultras come out (mind you, your opponent can essentially triple expand while you're sitting in your base.
tldr - Don't Ice Fisher.
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I'm looking for the exact build order (opening) for a pool first zvp build that gets queen injects perfectly aligned with eachother (and gets 2-6 lings after pool incase of pylon block)
Presumably one queen would spend 25 energy on a creep tumour whilst walking down to the expo. I've tried fiddling around in game and with build order calculators/testers but no luck. I dont mind if its gasless or gets ling speed early i just want my injects synchronised ><
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ZvZ.
He opens speedling expand then banes.
I open roach expand. Who is behind in econ? Can I defend all-ins with my roaches w/o losing the expansion?
I feel like if he opens lings I'll not have enough roaches to defend my hatch.
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On October 01 2011 12:57 DW-Unrec wrote:
ZvZ.
He opens speedling expand then banes.
I open roach expand. Who is behind in econ? Can I defend all-ins with my roaches w/o losing the expansion?
I feel like if he opens lings I'll not have enough roaches to defend my hatch.
How many roaches do you make initially?
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dunno, if he makes many lings, i make more roaches.
If not, drones then
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Hello, longtime lurker here, so frustated that he needs a quick fix, heres the replay of me playing half an hour with a gold "noob". I made almost more than twice the workers and well just watch it, i raged at the end but thats only natural.
Please help =D, and thanks
![[image loading]](http://www.gamereplays.org/community/uploads/repimgs/repimg-33-235077.jpg)
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On October 01 2011 02:07 charleeislegend wrote:Hi, I'm a gold level zerg (top 8 rank) yet in a zvz I cannot for the life of me defend against a muta harrass. I usually use hydras to try to defend but they just dont cut it, so I was wondering how do I defend against a early muta tech (either 1 base or early 2 base) while expanding to get my 3rd? (I'm never able to get my third safely cuz the person usually goes so many mutas. This would help immensely as every zvz I do they always go early muta (which seems pretty retarded only i cant stop it ) btw, getting 7 zvz's and losing every one of them sucks.
I'm on a silver level zerg so I won't go into too much detail, but have you tried pressuring him with a mass roach push and Lair tech? If he's going for early mutas he's throwing a lot of resources at that which isn't going into army and defenses. And roaches with speed and +1 range are really strong, and mutas take ages to kill them.
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Silver Zerg here. Recently i've been losing to a roach/hydra mix in ZvZ. What would be a good response to this mix? I don't feel safe going only roach/infestors in the mid game as I can never trade evenly with him
Would going for roach/hydra myself be a good choice? Please advise.
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EPT
