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On September 15 2011 03:01 Juice! wrote:
Is there an ideal nr of drones to have in mid/late game?
People used to say get 70-80 drones, but lately i've seen many zergs (like idra and slayersmin and more) never go above 50-55 drones (no matter how long the game takes).
Is there a reason for this or is it just not good to have more then 50-55 drones? (since they "weaken" you max food army)
I'm also wondering how the infestor will play it's part in the army of Z after patch 1.4 (with the NP nerf) and the banelingdrop nerf (altho i'm still hoping that's a bug and will be fixed)
What I see idra get more then 55 drones most of the time he plays xD.
its still the game you want to try and get 70-80 drones in general. If you overmake drones its not a big deal as normally with your large amount of minerals you want to grab some drones and make spines to either delay his push while you are teching, or to defend easier from drop play.
I'm pretty sure the baneling drop thing was proven as false, and as for the infestor change no idea yet.
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On September 15 2011 03:01 Juice! wrote:
Is there an ideal nr of drones to have in mid/late game?
People used to say get 70-80 drones, but lately i've seen many zergs (like idra and slayersmin and more) never go above 50-55 drones (no matter how long the game takes).
Is there a reason for this or is it just not good to have more then 50-55 drones? (since they "weaken" you max food army)
I'm also wondering how the infestor will play it's part in the army of Z after patch 1.4 (with the NP nerf) and the banelingdrop nerf (altho i'm still hoping that's a bug and will be fixed)
Zerg is all about larva management and having large numbers for surrounds. I usually like to play with about 3 bases of 16 on mins and 3/gas so 60ish. If you have 70-80 that means you have a huge economy but probably wont have enough army to defend attacks early. I would also say that the drone count depends of the playstyle of your opponent, if they are passive and go for max then drone and tech like crazy, if they aggressive then you should probably hold it out on 2 base for a while. I'm just giving my opinions though because I play no where near the level of Idra or Min.
I have no real comment on the others but I did see a post about the baneling thing being false.
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Anyone who needs help with injects, I'm a high gold Zerg, however I have my injects down pat. It's real simple. Macro keyboard is one thing you need for my style. Put all your queens on one control group (mine is 3). Put 3+v+backspace on a macro key. When the notification of the larva spawning appears in the top left, immediately (I have a Logitech G110) hit (I have this on G9) G9+click, G9+click, etc. for each hatchery.
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How do you react to someone mixing in like 6 bfh's into their marine tank army mid game?
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On September 15 2011 07:43 iMMortaL.797 wrote:
Anyone who needs help with injects, I'm a high gold Zerg, however I have my injects down pat. It's real simple. Macro keyboard is one thing you need for my style. Put all your queens on one control group (mine is 3). Put 3+v+backspace on a macro key. When the notification of the larva spawning appears in the top left, immediately (I have a Logitech G110) hit (I have this on G9) G9+click, G9+click, etc. for each hatchery.
You do realize that this is against blizzard's terms of service, right? Here's an example thread talking about it: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=146760
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Also, in ZvZ 15 Hatch vs 15 Hatch, should you ever attack with your banelings?
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On September 15 2011 09:07 Cosmology wrote:
Also, in ZvZ 15 Hatch vs 15 Hatch, should you ever attack with your banelings?
If you want to commit to an all in ling/bane sure, but I would recommend being the defensive player.
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On September 15 2011 09:10 blade55555 wrote:Show nested quote +On September 15 2011 09:07 Cosmology wrote:
Also, in ZvZ 15 Hatch vs 15 Hatch, should you ever attack with your banelings? If you want to commit to an all in ling/bane sure, but I would recommend being the defensive player.
Okay thanks, when should I go on the offensive with Ling Bling then?
Also, should I make a spinecrawler?
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On September 15 2011 00:51 evanthebouncy! wrote:Show nested quote +On September 14 2011 22:57 KimJongChill wrote:
So with ZvZ, I'm comfortable with opening speedling expand to contain my opponent, but I'm not sure what to do when my opponent goes one base roach rush and just spams them to my base. Should I stay on one base as well, or try to hold my natural? I can't really counterattack since they will have some roaches idling around in base. It's generally tricky. You cannot over make zerglings and must get your economy up. His tech is ahead and a roach ball of larger size is more powerful, and his 1 base economy is not nessesarily worse than yours since he probably have good saturation on 1 base to your bad saturation over 2 base (since you made zerglings, your drone count will be low). You have to saturate your natural up, and either: 1) stay on zergling and get spines 2) go roach yourself I prefer going roach myself. The whole point of speedling is containment and map control, you are now playing a match not unlike ZvP and ZvT. You want to drone as much as possible until he moves out. He has to initiate the move out as he is 1 base behind. As soon as you contain him (i.e. you have 12 or so zerglings while he has 3,4 roaches blocking the ramp, you need to put down a roach warren right away and pump out drones / roaches. When you feel your main/nat is sufficiently saturated (i.e. you think your 2 base economy is better than his 1 base, start adding roaches off 2 or 3 gas, depend on your econ. When he moves out and if you played the economy right you should have a roach count comparable to his, add in a round of roach and spam speedlings to crush his push. edit: basically at some point speedling > roach, but after a certain point roach > zergling. The precise point where they are equal depends on flanking and his roach positioning greatly. If he push out early, it should not work because you can slam out 20 zerglings off 2 hatch and crush him. If he push out late it should not work because your good economy should have more roaches.
This is the kind of play that I generally perform, but I'm talking about a very fast roach rush. I guess it does still boil down to walking the fine line of droning/roaching.
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On September 15 2011 09:07 Cosmology wrote:
Also, in ZvZ 15 Hatch vs 15 Hatch, should you ever attack with your banelings?
If scout the front of his base and he has no spines or banelings you should move out with some blings. At worst you will force him to morph blings or spines, at best he wont react and you'll be able to hurt him.
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On September 15 2011 07:43 iMMortaL.797 wrote:
Anyone who needs help with injects, I'm a high gold Zerg, however I have my injects down pat. It's real simple. Macro keyboard is one thing you need for my style. Put all your queens on one control group (mine is 3). Put 3+v+backspace on a macro key. When the notification of the larva spawning appears in the top left, immediately (I have a Logitech G110) hit (I have this on G9) G9+click, G9+click, etc. for each hatchery.
Macros are actually considered cheating by the blizzard ToS so I don't recommend posting about this.
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On September 15 2011 07:38 blade55555 wrote:Show nested quote +On September 15 2011 03:01 Juice! wrote:
Is there an ideal nr of drones to have in mid/late game?
People used to say get 70-80 drones, but lately i've seen many zergs (like idra and slayersmin and more) never go above 50-55 drones (no matter how long the game takes).
Is there a reason for this or is it just not good to have more then 50-55 drones? (since they "weaken" you max food army)
I'm also wondering how the infestor will play it's part in the army of Z after patch 1.4 (with the NP nerf) and the banelingdrop nerf (altho i'm still hoping that's a bug and will be fixed) What I see idra get more then 55 drones most of the time he plays xD. its still the game you want to try and get 70-80 drones in general. If you overmake drones its not a big deal as normally with your large amount of minerals you want to grab some drones and make spines to either delay his push while you are teching, or to defend easier from drop play. I'm pretty sure the baneling drop thing was proven as false, and as for the infestor change no idea yet.
What is this baneling drop nerf??? Just curious becaues I'm already having trouble with unit compositions against protoss
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When a P goes stalker/colossus, and has like more than 4 colossi or more, is it better to go infestor/ling or roach/ling? Whenever I make roaches late game pvz, it feels like im literally giving free supply to the protoss...
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On September 16 2011 06:56 KimJongChill wrote:
When a P goes stalker/colossus, and has like more than 4 colossi or more, is it better to go infestor/ling or roach/ling? Whenever I make roaches late game pvz, it feels like im literally giving free supply to the protoss...
Neither of those seem too effective, you're just so far behind in tech if they have that many colossus out. My solution to large numbers of... anything from protoss is baneling bombs. This is especially strong vs. stalker/colossus because the huge strength of that composition comes from how compact the unit ball must be to have the damage density to be effective. Roach/infestor/bane is what you'll want in the midgame, but if your opponent has that many colossus then you should have hive tech at that point, infestor/roach/brood lord being the obvious response at that point.
On September 16 2011 02:44 Chinesewonder wrote:
What is this baneling drop nerf??? Just curious becaues I'm already having trouble with unit compositions against protoss
It was labeled as a bug fix, but was proven to do basically nothing significant. Here is the thread if you're curious.
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What's that "zerg deathball" composition vs Protoss late game? xD I remember seeing it somewhere but I don't remember through the 100000 threads I've read.
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Infestors and Brood Lords are the primary units of a Zerg late game deathball (it's not really any more unstoppable than a Protoss version.)
ZvT: Infestors Brood Lords, plenty of corruptors, ling/bling and whatever mutalisks you still may have left over.
ZvP: Infestors, Brood Lords, plenty of corruptors, roaches and hydralisks.
Or combination of both- really the only standard about it is Brood Lords to long range siege and infestors to fungal the units in place so they can't bum rush the Brood Lords and must fight through the support units and broodlings.
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United States2446 Posts
So I feel like the biggest noob, but I've been playing super bad lately and playing against diamonds again. This guy masses BC's/ravens/vikings/banshees on me. I don't know how to answer PDD's against that stuff though. They block muta, queen, hydra, corruptor, even spore crawler shots. How am I supposed to engage that? It makes the BC's completely untouchable.
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On September 16 2011 10:38 Dalguno wrote:
So I feel like the biggest noob, but I've been playing super bad lately and playing against diamonds again. This guy masses BC's/ravens/vikings/banshees on me. I don't know how to answer PDD's against that stuff though. They block muta, queen, hydra, corruptor, even spore crawler shots. How am I supposed to engage that? It makes the BC's completely untouchable.
The best thing to do is don't let it happen. What were you doing to the terran while they were pooling resources into BCs? What was your midgame plan? Did you just skip mutalisks entirely for infestors? Consistent mutalisk activeness should shut down sky terran, though I'd need to see a replay to be more specific.
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United States2446 Posts
On September 16 2011 11:21 Soluhwin wrote:Show nested quote +On September 16 2011 10:38 Dalguno wrote:
So I feel like the biggest noob, but I've been playing super bad lately and playing against diamonds again. This guy masses BC's/ravens/vikings/banshees on me. I don't know how to answer PDD's against that stuff though. They block muta, queen, hydra, corruptor, even spore crawler shots. How am I supposed to engage that? It makes the BC's completely untouchable. The best thing to do is don't let it happen. What were you doing to the terran while they were pooling resources into BCs? What was your midgame plan? Did you just skip mutalisks entirely for infestors? Consistent mutalisk activeness should shut down sky terran, though I'd need to see a replay to be more specific.
Yeah yeah, I know I could have done better for him not getting there. But, I see the transition a lot, from tank marine in super heavy macro games to the air units. What do I do when it gets there?
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Platinum Zerg here. I've made it a goal to stop using roaches as part of my main army composition in all matchups. I don't think they're a bad unit, but they're boring and supply inefficient and I just don't have a fun time playing the game when I use them.
The matchup this shakes up for me the most is ZvZ, where I almost always went 15 hatch into roach/infestor. I've noticed a number of zergs going muta/ling recently, which catches me off guard and beats me a lot of the time as I try to transition into hydras. Admittedly, my infestor control is terribad. I would love to try going muta/ling in ZvZ myself, and I remember NesTea mentioned that he thought mutas were the future of ZvZ.
Is this a viable strat at a high level (or even a low one; I am only in platinum after all)? Does it just lose to someone who has good infestor control and chain-Fungals the mutas? If it is a decent strat, does anyone know a good build order for it?
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EPT
