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Make sure you read the OP before asking a question. Asking a question already addressed in the OP will result in moderation action. Also, please put some effort into your questions. |
^ That's an issue where you have to work on larva injects. You also critically lacked upgrades.
I'd suggest you throw down a macro hatch and another queen for it when you get 2 bases going since your macro lacks. I'm Masters and I always throw a macro hatch down when I get 3 bases going (if there's pressure and I'm unable to take my third, I'll throw down a macro hatch without hesitation on 2 bases unless it's zvz, in which case I always go mutas). You will not have extra money when you're making drones, and then making units. I mean my point here is that, since your very low level, you need to throw down that macro hatch until your macro picks up. Just throw down a macro hatch anytime your minerals goes above 500 until you get your macro better.
Look up "backspace shift queen inject" and practice that. There's an android and iphone app that 'ding!' every 29.6 seconds to remind you to inject, I suggest you use it religiously until you hit diamond. That's what I did, I never miss injects now. I would say up until Platinum, your injects is your #1 macro issue (along with not getting supply blocked, you need to make the overlord 4 supply early until 36/444, in which case you need to make an overlord every time one comes out).
Once you get injects down, you will never float money though, even with 75 drones. Just rewatch that replay and imagine if all the minerals you were floating were zerglings at any point. You would've won easily.
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Thanks a lot. I really appreciate it.
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Cheers Belial88, those are some good tips for all of us low-level zergs in learning. I grabbed something similar to the iphone app you were talking about called Queen Inject, which is a program that plays a soundfile every 31s (or whatever time you set it up to).
My injects in the few games I tried with it have been miles better than before and I managed to up 200 v 96 supply in the first game I tried it on for example. That I still managed to lose that game due to being way way way too passive and then letting myself be funneled into mass-colossi is a different story however..
One thing I seem to be having major issues with is deciding when to do my first push (so I don't wait too long and let them catch up supply-wise) and when to expand further. I always grab an early expansion, and a quick third if I see them take an expo, but after that I usually wait too long. I'm sure this has been asked before, but when should I consider it time to take a 4th/5th etc?
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^ Your natural and third timings are something that kind of take a delicate balance (ie Terran who takes a fast third against Zerg who takes a fast third will get overrun and die, etc), but for Zerg the 4th+ bases should simply be taken when the other player takes their base-1 (ie take a 4th when they a take a third, take a 5th then they take a 4th).
Not knowing when to push with Zerg, or any race, was a major issue I had. Then I realized that with zerg, you never push. It's just how the race is designed right now 
However it the opponent has no or low sentries, colossi, or siege tanks (say after a big battle or because they are out of position) then you can definitely just bum rush them.
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On September 13 2011 22:40 Vond wrote:
Cheers Belial88, those are some good tips for all of us low-level zergs in learning. I grabbed something similar to the iphone app you were talking about called Queen Inject, which is a program that plays a soundfile every 31s (or whatever time you set it up to).
My injects in the few games I tried with it have been miles better than before and I managed to up 200 v 96 supply in the first game I tried it on for example. That I still managed to lose that game due to being way way way too passive and then letting myself be funneled into mass-colossi is a different story however..
One thing I seem to be having major issues with is deciding when to do my first push (so I don't wait too long and let them catch up supply-wise) and when to expand further. I always grab an early expansion, and a quick third if I see them take an expo, but after that I usually wait too long. I'm sure this has been asked before, but when should I consider it time to take a 4th/5th etc?
When maxed, just a-move to any of his expos, and then remax using your awesomely gained larva's from your injects! This should do until masters. Keep in mind that there is no reason to have a 200/200 army when you're not using it.
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On September 14 2011 04:52 Baseic wrote:
When maxed, just a-move to any of his expos, and then remax using your awesomely gained larva's from your injects! This should do until masters. Keep in mind that there is no reason to have a 200/200 army when you're not using it.
Even for ranks below master if you have a 200 control army attacking into a heavily defended choke point just because you hit 200 control is not a smart idea. Pick your battles wisely whenever possible. You're never so far ahead that you can completely throw away your army. If you have to just start doing small drops and other harrassment while building more spine crawlers and spreading creep. Don't throw the game away. There is life after 200 control!
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I go 14 gas, 14 pool against protoss and scout on 10. If I see the protoss is forge fast expanding I leave drones on gas and go for a baneling nest then bust which has won the game every time so far in my lowly plat level. I do drop a hatch for extra speedlings before the bust which the protoss usually scouts and assumes I am normal expanding. I try to make sure the protoss doesn't scout the nest by getting 2/4 lings out after pool but they also search for hidden pylons.
Is this considered an all in, cheese or normal response because I stop drones at about 20 or so and hide/misinform the protoss as to my intentions?
Also if the protoss does get a fast expansion up and I just expand instead of busting I find myself generally unable to handle the deathball afterwards. Is it better to focus on making the bust more effective or to forget it and try to learn the later game better?
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On September 14 2011 13:02 weishime wrote:
I go 14 gas, 14 pool against protoss and scout on 10. If I see the protoss is forge fast expanding I leave drones on gas and go for a baneling nest then bust which has won the game every time so far in my lowly plat level. I do drop a hatch for extra speedlings before the bust which the protoss usually scouts and assumes I am normal expanding. I try to make sure the protoss doesn't scout the nest by getting 2/4 lings out after pool but they also search for hidden pylons.
Is this considered an all in, cheese or normal response because I stop drones at about 20 or so and hide/misinform the protoss as to my intentions?
Also if the protoss does get a fast expansion up and I just expand instead of busting I find myself generally unable to handle the deathball afterwards. Is it better to focus on making the bust more effective or to forget it and try to learn the later game better?
Yes you are doing an all in if you are going for a baneling bust vs a forge FE. You should try to learn the game better and play it more. If you are so used to busting (which is all in/cheesy) you are not experienced enough in the later stages of the game and that is why you struggle so much.
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On September 14 2011 13:05 blade55555 wrote:Show nested quote +On September 14 2011 13:02 weishime wrote:
I go 14 gas, 14 pool against protoss and scout on 10. If I see the protoss is forge fast expanding I leave drones on gas and go for a baneling nest then bust which has won the game every time so far in my lowly plat level. I do drop a hatch for extra speedlings before the bust which the protoss usually scouts and assumes I am normal expanding. I try to make sure the protoss doesn't scout the nest by getting 2/4 lings out after pool but they also search for hidden pylons.
Is this considered an all in, cheese or normal response because I stop drones at about 20 or so and hide/misinform the protoss as to my intentions?
Also if the protoss does get a fast expansion up and I just expand instead of busting I find myself generally unable to handle the deathball afterwards. Is it better to focus on making the bust more effective or to forget it and try to learn the later game better? Yes you are doing an all in if you are going for a baneling bust vs a forge FE. You should try to learn the game better and play it more. If you are so used to busting (which is all in/cheesy) you are not experienced enough in the later stages of the game and that is why you struggle so much.
Thanks for that. To clarify I am not baneling busting every game, just did it in 3 consecutive games last night because it seemed like an idea to try punishing the protoss for fast expanding as seemed to be ok for terran/protoss to do to zerg if zerg FEs/plays too greedily. It worked the first time and found it effective enough to do to the other 2 protoss but was unsure of what to make of it.
What was meant by the handling the deathball was when protoss has colossus, stalker, etc and being chewed by that since I didn't get any corruptors out and am unable to handle infestors meaningfully but that is a unit composition/micro? problem.
Thanks again.
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http://drop.sc/34644
I do not understand the correct teching timing. What to do against collosus? I'm going zergling heavy build. Should I just make roach/corruptor and try to kill those guys first?
I'm going to quote myself since I have not been helped yet :/
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On September 14 2011 13:38 weishime wrote:Show nested quote +On September 14 2011 13:05 blade55555 wrote:On September 14 2011 13:02 weishime wrote:
I go 14 gas, 14 pool against protoss and scout on 10. If I see the protoss is forge fast expanding I leave drones on gas and go for a baneling nest then bust which has won the game every time so far in my lowly plat level. I do drop a hatch for extra speedlings before the bust which the protoss usually scouts and assumes I am normal expanding. I try to make sure the protoss doesn't scout the nest by getting 2/4 lings out after pool but they also search for hidden pylons.
Is this considered an all in, cheese or normal response because I stop drones at about 20 or so and hide/misinform the protoss as to my intentions?
Also if the protoss does get a fast expansion up and I just expand instead of busting I find myself generally unable to handle the deathball afterwards. Is it better to focus on making the bust more effective or to forget it and try to learn the later game better? Yes you are doing an all in if you are going for a baneling bust vs a forge FE. You should try to learn the game better and play it more. If you are so used to busting (which is all in/cheesy) you are not experienced enough in the later stages of the game and that is why you struggle so much. Thanks for that. To clarify I am not baneling busting every game, just did it in 3 consecutive games last night because it seemed like an idea to try punishing the protoss for fast expanding as seemed to be ok for terran/protoss to do to zerg if zerg FEs/plays too greedily. It worked the first time and found it effective enough to do to the other 2 protoss but was unsure of what to make of it. What was meant by the handling the deathball was when protoss has colossus, stalker, etc and being chewed by that since I didn't get any corruptors out and am unable to handle infestors meaningfully but that is a unit composition/micro? problem. Thanks again.
Yeah that sounds like a unit micro problem if you are struggling with infestors which just takes practice. I would recommend going infestors even if you can't control them good and just improve that way. You may lose kind of dumb but once you get used to it it will help you in the long run (assuming infestors don't become useless which i doubt they will  ).
Always glad to help but baneling busting isn't a guaranteed win though ever vs forge fe ^_^.
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Hello!
If you will recall the last time I posted in this thread I was silver, and have now progressed to gold and am now trying to pass the barrier to platinum. I'm now finding ZvT the easiest, ZvP quite easy because I learned to defend cheeses(which is what most gold/plat P tend do) but often lose macro games. I've accepted that ZvZ is a coinflip so T_T.
Here's a ZvP game I lost against a turtling platinum player:
http://www.speedyshare.com/files/30310618/download/protosslol.SC2Replay
I've never had any experienced player comment on my play, so it would be nice to have some feedback on this particular one. I think I played fairly well in the beginning to middle, but still lost to fully upgraded colossus/immortal/stalker mix. I know NP is one counter to colossi but I'd rather learn a more future proof way of winning considering the 1.4 patch. Thanks.
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So with ZvZ, I'm comfortable with opening speedling expand to contain my opponent, but I'm not sure what to do when my opponent goes one base roach rush and just spams them to my base. Should I stay on one base as well, or try to hold my natural? I can't really counterattack since they will have some roaches idling around in base.
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On September 14 2011 22:57 KimJongChill wrote:
So with ZvZ, I'm comfortable with opening speedling expand to contain my opponent, but I'm not sure what to do when my opponent goes one base roach rush and just spams them to my base. Should I stay on one base as well, or try to hold my natural? I can't really counterattack since they will have some roaches idling around in base.
It's generally tricky. You cannot over make zerglings and must get your economy up. His tech is ahead and a roach ball of larger size is more powerful, and his 1 base economy is not nessesarily worse than yours since he probably have good saturation on 1 base to your bad saturation over 2 base (since you made zerglings, your drone count will be low).
You have to saturate your natural up, and either:
1) stay on zergling and get spines
2) go roach yourself
I prefer going roach myself. The whole point of speedling is containment and map control, you are now playing a match not unlike ZvP and ZvT. You want to drone as much as possible until he moves out. He has to initiate the move out as he is 1 base behind.
As soon as you contain him (i.e. you have 12 or so zerglings while he has 3,4 roaches blocking the ramp, you need to put down a roach warren right away and pump out drones / roaches. When you feel your main/nat is sufficiently saturated (i.e. you think your 2 base economy is better than his 1 base, start adding roaches off 2 or 3 gas, depend on your econ.
When he moves out and if you played the economy right you should have a roach count comparable to his, add in a round of roach and spam speedlings to crush his push.
edit:
basically at some point speedling > roach, but after a certain point roach > zergling. The precise point where they are equal depends on flanking and his roach positioning greatly. If he push out early, it should not work because you can slam out 20 zerglings off 2 hatch and crush him. If he push out late it should not work because your good economy should have more roaches.
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So you see a lot of people doing ling drops to destroy opponent buildings/econ. Yesterday I had the thought of why don't people use Hydras this way? My reasoning is:
1.) They are too slow to really use with your army most of the time.
2.) Unlike Lings which most people use for drops Hydras can shoot up which means lifted buildings.
3.) 4 of them do 48 damage which is 2 less than 10 lings and once again can shoot up.
10 lings cost you 250 minerals 4 hydras is 600 but is the cost/reward ratio possibly good enough to justify it? Most people seem to drop 2 overlords of lings so why not just 1 overlord of hydras? My only way I can see why people don't do this more is many people get melee upgrades and not ranged and the 350 resource difference.
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I suppose this doenst need its own thread also there are milion threads with this problematic. But I think its different from case to case.
Im talking about defending bunker rush (yes again) for some time I was quite confident with defending bunker rush but today I played vs guy who rushed me twice in BO3 with complete succes and me loosing without any chance (at least thats what i feel).
So my question is not how to stop but what I could have done better this game.
Replay: http://www.gamereplays.org/starcraft2/replays.php?game=33&show=details&id=231500
Thanks for any feedback.
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Is there an ideal nr of drones to have in mid/late game?
People used to say get 70-80 drones, but lately i've seen many zergs (like idra and slayersmin and more) never go above 50-55 drones (no matter how long the game takes).
Is there a reason for this or is it just not good to have more then 50-55 drones? (since they "weaken" you max food army)
I'm also wondering how the infestor will play it's part in the army of Z after patch 1.4 (with the NP nerf) and the banelingdrop nerf (altho i'm still hoping that's a bug and will be fixed)
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On September 15 2011 02:13 thane wrote:
So you see a lot of people doing ling drops to destroy opponent buildings/econ. Yesterday I had the thought of why don't people use Hydras this way? My reasoning is:
1.) They are too slow to really use with your army most of the time.
2.) Unlike Lings which most people use for drops Hydras can shoot up which means lifted buildings.
3.) 4 of them do 48 damage which is 2 less than 10 lings and once again can shoot up.
10 lings cost you 250 minerals 4 hydras is 600 but is the cost/reward ratio possibly good enough to justify it? Most people seem to drop 2 overlords of lings so why not just 1 overlord of hydras? My only way I can see why people don't do this more is many people get melee upgrades and not ranged and the 350 resource difference.
I supposed you are talking about zvt?
In general, hydras are just really useless in zvt, you will never ever see it in zvt.
Getting hydras just for hydra drop is not that ideal, hydra is just an expensive investment. You need the dent, upgrade and hydras themselves. you can't really afford all these when producing your main ling/baneling/infestors or muta army.
I have seen it in zvp through, but I don't like it, they are so expensive and I just dislike hydra in general.
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On September 15 2011 04:25 ETisME wrote:Show nested quote +On September 15 2011 02:13 thane wrote:
So you see a lot of people doing ling drops to destroy opponent buildings/econ. Yesterday I had the thought of why don't people use Hydras this way? My reasoning is:
1.) They are too slow to really use with your army most of the time.
2.) Unlike Lings which most people use for drops Hydras can shoot up which means lifted buildings.
3.) 4 of them do 48 damage which is 2 less than 10 lings and once again can shoot up.
10 lings cost you 250 minerals 4 hydras is 600 but is the cost/reward ratio possibly good enough to justify it? Most people seem to drop 2 overlords of lings so why not just 1 overlord of hydras? My only way I can see why people don't do this more is many people get melee upgrades and not ranged and the 350 resource difference. I supposed you are talking about zvt? In general, hydras are just really useless in zvt, you will never ever see it in zvt. Getting hydras just for hydra drop is not that ideal, hydra is just an expensive investment. You need the dent, upgrade and hydras themselves. you can't really afford all these when producing your main ling/baneling/infestors or muta army. I have seen it in zvp through, but I don't like it, they are so expensive and I just dislike hydra in general.
I was kind of thinking mid game or like 3-4 bases when you have some money to spare to try and get a small edge. Early game I can see it not working well or even early in the mid game also.
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EPT
