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United States17423 Posts
On September 11 2011 14:52 TheRabidDeer wrote:
wtf do you do against late game terran drops... ive been having to resort to broodlords, which are EXTREMELY slow... so then i get my bases dropped and i lose all my resources/tech to a cheap drop of 8 marines and a medivac, even with 5 spine crawlers at each base.
EDIT: This was cross map tal darim, I was at his base with about 7 broods and 10 corruptors, 3 infestors and the rest in roaches/lings, and I had spines at every base. Should I dedicate like 6 roaches to defend purely against drops at this point?
Well having ling/bane staying back is good but you should have muta's as well to deal with it. Spine crawlers as well ^_^
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On September 11 2011 15:03 blade55555 wrote:Show nested quote +On September 11 2011 14:52 TheRabidDeer wrote:
wtf do you do against late game terran drops... ive been having to resort to broodlords, which are EXTREMELY slow... so then i get my bases dropped and i lose all my resources/tech to a cheap drop of 8 marines and a medivac, even with 5 spine crawlers at each base.
EDIT: This was cross map tal darim, I was at his base with about 7 broods and 10 corruptors, 3 infestors and the rest in roaches/lings, and I had spines at every base. Should I dedicate like 6 roaches to defend purely against drops at this point? Well having ling/bane staying back is good but you should have muta's as well to deal with it. Spine crawlers as well ^_^
Yea, I had spines but 3-3 marines take out spine crawlers with no problem at all when backed by a medivac... 8 marines can take out 2 spines and not lose a single marine, which makes them kinda worthless late game except for delaying... but it generally feels like i need my entire army to even break the terran defensive line.
As of late, every terran I face pushes out with tanks/marines around the time I start to get mutas, which means I have to dedicate my mutas to defending instead of harassing his base. I have no problems at all beating the traditional old style terran where they turtle a bit longer and just defend, its this aggressive terran that leaves you no opportunity to harass while taking a reasonably fast third since he contains you with marine tank.
I mean, a few weeks ago I was destroying terrans, to the point where I had a 70% win rate vs them... now I cant beat them if my life depended on it.
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How do you play against Muta ZvZ style if you are behind in Muta production? When should I scout to see if I should go Hydra or Muta when Lair finishes. How much defense should I get before I start Lair when doing the Muta based play?
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On September 12 2011 02:21 raybasto wrote:
How do you play against Muta ZvZ style if you are behind in Muta production? When should I scout to see if I should go Hydra or Muta when Lair finishes. How much defense should I get before I start Lair when doing the Muta based play?
Now, I'm speaking as someone who belives that you should always go mutalisks in mid-game ZvZ, so I'd say never go hydras.
As for if you're behind in the muta count, you need to make something happen with lings. When muta vs. muta breaks out in ZvZ, it becomes all about who can take the 5th/6th gas first and pull waaay ahead, so if you can use some sort of ling advantage to constantly deny the other player's third while taking your own and cover it with spores, then you'll catch up and pull ahead eventually. This is very difficult to pull off, though, and for the most part you want to just have as much of an early game advantage as possible.
When doing mutalisk mid-game against a heavy roach-ing opponent, all of your excess minerals should be dumped into spines for the base that is closer to your opponent, because your third should be far away. The farther away base is protected by counter attack advantage, because you should always win a base trade situation.
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Hi guys, I am seriously having trouble with a few things against protoss.
One is the cannon rush before your natural's mineral lines, it appears that if he "lock" his probe with two pylon, he can safely put up a cannon since there is not enough surface area for the drones to break it down.
Secondly, how to deal with mass chargelot/archon style.
even with mass roaches and infestors, I feel that it is extremely difficult to break because each roaches and infestors eat up gas while only archons for protoss takes up the gas.
Is there a different way to deal with it? I had been thinking to use baneling bombs, has anyone got experience on that?
Please if you do have a replay beating this style, sent me a replay because I am struggling heavily in this style
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On September 12 2011 05:14 ETisME wrote:
Hi guys, I am seriously having trouble with a few things against protoss.
One is the cannon rush before your natural's mineral lines, it appears that if he "lock" his probe with two pylon, he can safely put up a cannon since there is not enough surface area for the drones to break it down.
Are you going hatch first or pool first? If you're going hatch first then you should always have a drone chasing the probe, and constantly manage it to block possible pylons if the probe moves to a suspicious location. If you're going pool first, then it's okay to pull a rather liberal number of drones to delay until lings come out, just leave 6 drones mining until the cannons are dead.
Secondly, how to deal with mass chargelot/archon style.
even with mass roaches and infestors, I feel that it is extremely difficult to break because each roaches and infestors eat up gas while only archons for protoss takes up the gas.
Is there a different way to deal with it? I had been thinking to use baneling bombs, has anyone got experience on that?
Please if you do have a replay beating this style, sent me a replay because I am struggling heavily in this style
Roach/baneling has been my preferred method of dealing with this. I really don't use infestors as a core unit in my ZvP, I rely on banes for splash and I never have trouble with this kind of push.
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On September 12 2011 05:19 Soluhwin wrote:Show nested quote +On September 12 2011 05:14 ETisME wrote:
Hi guys, I am seriously having trouble with a few things against protoss.
One is the cannon rush before your natural's mineral lines, it appears that if he "lock" his probe with two pylon, he can safely put up a cannon since there is not enough surface area for the drones to break it down. Are you going hatch first or pool first? If you're going hatch first then you should always have a drone chasing the probe, and constantly manage it to block possible pylons if the probe moves to a suspicious location. If you're going pool first, then it's okay to pull a rather liberal number of drones to delay until lings come out, just leave 6 drones mining until the cannons are dead. Show nested quote +
Secondly, how to deal with mass chargelot/archon style.
even with mass roaches and infestors, I feel that it is extremely difficult to break because each roaches and infestors eat up gas while only archons for protoss takes up the gas.
Is there a different way to deal with it? I had been thinking to use baneling bombs, has anyone got experience on that?
Please if you do have a replay beating this style, sent me a replay because I am struggling heavily in this style Roach/baneling has been my preferred method of dealing with this. I really don't use infestors as a core unit in my ZvP, I rely on banes for splash and I never have trouble with this kind of push.
I always go pool first against toss, I actually pulled my drones as soon as I didn't see his scout worker after a second moving in my natural. But his position just make it so that only three of my drones can hit the pylons.
By the time my lings arrived, the cannons are already in place and so I just cancelled the hatch.
Does baneling do very well against it? I remember it takes quite a high number to bring down one archon and so I never really used banelings. Thanks anyway
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On September 12 2011 05:28 ETisME wrote:
Does baneling do very well against it? I remember it takes quite a high number to bring down one archon and so I never really used banelings. Thanks anyway
The banes are more focused at taking down the massive number of zealots that inherently come with archon builds, leaving naked archons for your roaches to deal with. It does take a balance of units to pull it off, though. You can't just make banes and win.
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On September 12 2011 05:14 ETisME wrote:
Hi guys, I am seriously having trouble with a few things against protoss.
One is the cannon rush before your natural's mineral lines, it appears that if he "lock" his probe with two pylon, he can safely put up a cannon since there is not enough surface area for the drones to break it down.
Secondly, how to deal with mass chargelot/archon style.
even with mass roaches and infestors, I feel that it is extremely difficult to break because each roaches and infestors eat up gas while only archons for protoss takes up the gas.
Is there a different way to deal with it? I had been thinking to use baneling bombs, has anyone got experience on that?
Please if you do have a replay beating this style, sent me a replay because I am struggling heavily in this style
Roach/Bane drop/ Infestor into BL/Infestor is the only way to beat this style. Roach/Infestor used to work but with the NP change, you HAVE to now use baneling drops to clear out the zealots so your roaches can actually be shooting the Archons. Before you could just NP as many archons as possible then win with mass roach.
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On September 11 2011 15:48 TheRabidDeer wrote:Show nested quote +On September 11 2011 15:03 blade55555 wrote:On September 11 2011 14:52 TheRabidDeer wrote:
wtf do you do against late game terran drops... ive been having to resort to broodlords, which are EXTREMELY slow... so then i get my bases dropped and i lose all my resources/tech to a cheap drop of 8 marines and a medivac, even with 5 spine crawlers at each base.
EDIT: This was cross map tal darim, I was at his base with about 7 broods and 10 corruptors, 3 infestors and the rest in roaches/lings, and I had spines at every base. Should I dedicate like 6 roaches to defend purely against drops at this point? Well having ling/bane staying back is good but you should have muta's as well to deal with it. Spine crawlers as well ^_^ Yea, I had spines but 3-3 marines take out spine crawlers with no problem at all when backed by a medivac... 8 marines can take out 2 spines and not lose a single marine, which makes them kinda worthless late game except for delaying... but it generally feels like i need my entire army to even break the terran defensive line. As of late, every terran I face pushes out with tanks/marines around the time I start to get mutas, which means I have to dedicate my mutas to defending instead of harassing his base. I have no problems at all beating the traditional old style terran where they turtle a bit longer and just defend, its this aggressive terran that leaves you no opportunity to harass while taking a reasonably fast third since he contains you with marine tank. I mean, a few weeks ago I was destroying terrans, to the point where I had a 70% win rate vs them... now I cant beat them if my life depended on it.
get spores instead. no terran uses air armor upgrades, and 1 medivac not being repped is easier to kill than 8 marines being healed. 2 spores on a side. This will usually force them to land farther away or lose their medivac and be easy pickings for lings or roaches.
also, if you're floating minerals, its easiy to take half the workers on an expo mineral line and just mass spine crawler around your hatch, and replace them near instantly with 10 eggs out of the 30 or so larva you should have late game, meaning its a tiny hiccup in the road to prevent your hatch going down and/or losing all your drones and causing a bigger hiccup later. If you don't like this idea, double hatch each expo so that he cant take out your expo completely with a drop. defending rampant drops is one part scouting OLs info, one part saving drones, and one part protecting the hatch from going down.
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How do you hold elevator pushes on Shakuras plateau (and I suppose in general)?
It's so fucking annoying. What I do is mass spines in anticipation on maps like that and when Terran opens macro (ie if he did 1 rax expand on shakuras, I'll creep it up and get spines there in anticipation). I generally go 2 base upgraded lings and speedbane and take spire/third at same time, but I think faster spire wouldn't really help against marines anyways.
I usually just do horribly and take a third at the same time, and then be behind Terran but come out ahead because they're macro usually suffers in their elevator push, and well, I'm better than most Terran at macro (lol so many games I lost and I think to myself "i only have 6 drones, but I know this guy is probably terribad if he's only diamond/low master)
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On September 12 2011 14:08 Belial88 wrote:
How do you hold elevator pushes on Shakuras plateau (and I suppose in general)?
It's so fucking annoying. What I do is mass spines in anticipation on maps like that and when Terran opens macro (ie if he did 1 rax expand on shakuras, I'll creep it up and get spines there in anticipation). I generally go 2 base upgraded lings and speedbane and take spire/third at same time, but I think faster spire wouldn't really help against marines anyways.
I usually just do horribly and take a third at the same time, and then be behind Terran but come out ahead because they're macro usually suffers in their elevator push, and well, I'm better than most Terran at macro (lol so many games I lost and I think to myself "i only have 6 drones, but I know this guy is probably terribad if he's only diamond/low master)
Diamond Zerg here.
Elevator pushes can be a pain in the ass, and can come at any time. My personal preference for elevator pushes is burrowed roach/infestor. There's no greater annoyance to terran than having roaches unburrow under your siege line whilst infestors fungal the marines to death.
One of the biggest flaws to this is the mentality that spines will save you. With siege, and the medivac sighting, they will straight-out kill your spines. Don't overmake spines, because they won't be your friend here.
Of course, you should have maybe 15-20 slings sitting outside his base before he pushes out, so you can run in and counter-attack while he is trying to dedicate his forces to the push. If you harrass while he is doing the push, he won't be able to reinforce, and you will really damage his economy.
I hope this helps, man. Roaches are the key!!!
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How do you muta stack in sc2?
bw style (overlord with mutas) or just constant clicking?
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I have a question, if anyone is willing to answer it.
In ZvP, I normally go destiny-style sling/mass infestor, just because I favour the added control of having infestors.
My question is, if the protoss is going mass-collossus, when is the point where you should stop relying on neural parasite on the collossus, and instead make corruptors to deal with them? I keep being very overconfident with my infestors and engaging the army, only to find that they just target my infestors and I instantly lose.
tl;dr at what point do I stop relying on neural parasite, and more oan corruptor when going against Collossus armies?
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On September 12 2011 22:25 OdiousTea wrote:
How do you muta stack in sc2?
bw style (overlord with mutas) or just constant clicking?
constant clicking, you can't keep them stacked like in bw though
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On September 12 2011 22:25 OdiousTea wrote:
How do you muta stack in sc2?
bw style (overlord with mutas) or just constant clicking?
Constant clicking, man. Mutas will drift apart after a very short time of being clumped together. There's no trick unfortunately 
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On September 12 2011 22:28 BearPack wrote:
I have a question, if anyone is willing to answer it.
In ZvP, I normally go destiny-style sling/mass infestor, just because I favour the added control of having infestors.
My question is, if the protoss is going mass-collossus, when is the point where you should stop relying on neural parasite on the collossus, and instead make corruptors to deal with them? I keep being very overconfident with my infestors and engaging the army, only to find that they just target my infestors and I instantly lose.
tl;dr at what point do I stop relying on neural parasite, and more oan corruptor when going against Collossus armies?
three colossi with +1 attack will one-shot an infestor if i'm not mistaken (maybe I am). Any more than 1-2 colossi and I would be worried about relying on NP without a great engage.
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High master zerg here. How to hard counter terran's 3 fast CC in main opening? They usually take their third really early with a couple siege tanks and very good marine micro. Should I just early 2hatch muta and try to kill him or try to outmacro him by taking a fast third early?
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On September 12 2011 23:12 Days wrote:
High master zerg here. How to hard counter terran's 3 fast CC in main opening? They usually take their third really early with a couple siege tanks and very good marine micro. Should I just early 2hatch muta and try to kill him or try to outmacro him by taking a fast third early?
Fellow high master zerg here. I dont think i've ever played against this build, but it sounds extremely inefficient. Especially when going quick tanks. You cant reasonably get 3+ tanks out and a large group of marines with stim. It sounds like the ramp up time for such a thing would be quite lengthy. Furthermore a reasonable timing push to kill the zerg third seems like a stretch.
How I would respond to this build would depend on the map I think. I'd go light on units at first in all situations upon scouting. Id also keep an eye on his gas timings and tank count the best I could. As well as number of rax. For the most part a quick third and a macro hatch would be a good choice. If the gold base is reasonable ie:shattered id go for that as my third. Get upgrades etc. My composition would depend a lot on the terran composition. If it was barracks heavy id stick with more ling bling and some infestors obviously, and mutas for 2+ factory tank production. From there Id make an estimation on terrans big push timing. If i think ill have time ill grab a 4th, otherwise id produce only units once my 3 bases were saturated, while teching up as I see fit.
I assume the terran turtles up for a big 3 base push with such build, that makes the most sense to me anyway. When a Terran is turtling notably long, spine crawlers are always a good decision.
To summarize: I'd play against it passively, droning in a crazed manner. I'd get a reasonably quick overseer for scouting purposes and see what the Terran is doing. From there i'd outline possible timings the T could utilize, and prepare accordingly. If he turtles I hold back on 4th base till I wipe his push, if he gets aggressive early i'd expo more quickly as long as the engagements are efficient for me. And of course, lots of tech, upgrades, and map control.
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United States17423 Posts
On September 12 2011 23:12 Days wrote:
High master zerg here. How to hard counter terran's 3 fast CC in main opening? They usually take their third really early with a couple siege tanks and very good marine micro. Should I just early 2hatch muta and try to kill him or try to outmacro him by taking a fast third early?
Well you can do a roach/ling/bane all in vs it and try to kill him. If he's taking it super fast do notice he will not have very many units a couple tanks and marines (more then a couple marines obv). The problem would be is seeing it in time to be able to punish it.
To be clear i'm not misreading this is a fast third CC like bomber/major do correct where they take the third with that CC on maps like shattered/meta, and maps with easy to secure thirds? If he's just making a macro CC then just play it out normally you won't really be able to punish it unless he does it super greedily.
If you see he's making a macro CC in his base just play normal, if you see him taking a super fast third (which should be done at about the time your third is almost done) either take a fourth or you can try to bust him. I personally always choose the take a 4'th and keep macroing.
I wasn't sure if you were meaning a macro CC or taking it as a third so I just posted what you can do vs both 
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EPT
