Make sure you read the OP before asking a question. Asking a question already addressed in the OP will result in moderation action. Also, please put some effort into your questions.
hi everyone i don't post much on TL but i've got some troubles with committed cannon rushes
it seems as though theres no economical way for the zerg to break the contain.
my usual response for cannon rushes are 1. if toss does a aggressive cannon rush (ie, 3 pylon to block the ramp on the low ground w/ cannons at places to hit your structures from the low ground with visioning probe) but if they lose their visioning probe i tend to go for spines and slow push it out
2. if toss does a expo delay cannon rush (ie, 3 pylon block the ramp and cannon placed far back so spines can't touch it) i'll go for quick banes nest and bust the ramp open, 5/6 banes are needed.
which leads to my question what do i do against toss's who drop pylons/cannons in abusive locations at your nat so that your drones can't get surface area on it and they proceed to cannon up to your high ground
and even after i break any sort of contain, im always so far behind, as im on 1 hatch w/ 1/2 queens and i don't have the larvae to make drones.
While the toss is either with a finished nexus if he doesn't overcommit to a cannon rush or with a wall in at the nat where he can expo safely while i just started my expo, not to mention with way less economy
is the only way to have a drone constantly following the probe in your base/nat ?
On September 07 2011 23:17 B o A wrote: hi everyone i don't post much on TL but i've got some troubles with committed cannon rushes
it seems as though theres no economical way for the zerg to break the contain.
my usual response for cannon rushes are 1. if toss does a aggressive cannon rush (ie, 3 pylon to block the ramp on the low ground w/ cannons at places to hit your structures from the low ground with visioning probe) but if they lose their visioning probe i tend to go for spines and slow push it out
2. if toss does a expo delay cannon rush (ie, 3 pylon block the ramp and cannon placed far back so spines can't touch it) i'll go for quick banes nest and bust the ramp open, 5/6 banes are needed.
which leads to my question what do i do against toss's who drop pylons/cannons in abusive locations at your nat so that your drones can't get surface area on it and they proceed to cannon up to your high ground
and even after i break any sort of contain, im always so far behind, as im on 1 hatch w/ 1/2 queens and i don't have the larvae to make drones.
While the toss is either with a finished nexus if he doesn't overcommit to a cannon rush or with a wall in at the nat where he can expo safely while i just started my expo, not to mention with way less economy
is the only way to have a drone constantly following the probe in your base/nat ?
any thoughts ? master kr server z
Just make sure your 2nd overlord is giving you vision of the natural's minerals.
Broodlord/Infestors seems to be the ideal lategame comp in late game ZvT on splittable maps (ie. XNC, Metal, Shakura ...). But at a decent level of play, terran will make preemptive vikings and the transition will not outright win the game. So I experienced game situations where I had 6-10 broods with infestors support (8-15) against a massive amount of vikings (over 10) guarding the regular mass siege tanks. And it become really difficult to engage effectively because of the range superiority of sieged tanks over brood lords. Agressive broods having 9.5 range will be in range of the vikings (9r) while infestors (9r) can't protect the broods without beeing destroyed by siege tanks (13r !). Corrupters are not really good against viking as they can be kitted to death.
Is ultra transition with a giant a-move the only way to defeat such a turtly terran ?
The answer to pretty much all of your [B o A] questions is as follows: 1. Place your second [and other following overlords] in [a] good position(s) so that you can see common places where protoss players like to hide pylons. Your second overlord should go near your ramp so you can see a probe coming in (should be paying attention to your mini-map).
2. When you see a probe entering your base, address it immediately with a drone. They are less likely to throw down pylons and cannons if they know you are aware of their presence.
3. If they do throw pylon(s)/cannon(s) down, pull drones to deal with it (zerglings too if you have them). Target the cannons first, they go down quicker and they're the ones that deal damage.
4. You should be able to stop all cannon rushes if you follow this.
On September 08 2011 02:35 Monkeyballs25 wrote: Silver/gold Zerg here. What should I use as a mineral dump against a mech Terran? I'm wary of making too many lings because of how nasty BFHs are.
Zerglings are the best, but if you're worried about BFH then you can get extra queens and spines. Queens are only minerals, they don't cost larvae, they spread creep, and they can transfuse themselves and everything else you own.
Thought I'd leave a little tip for us lower lower level zergies since I don't see them doing this on ladder often! A problem i see a lot of people do is have their overlords clump around their rally point only to die a helpless painful death One good way to prevent that is when you build your overlords, assign the eggs rally points first before building the rest of your units. This can also help with spreading out your overlords since you can do before they're even hatched! This is probably really obvious, but almost everyone i meet on ladder doesn't do this (plat-gold).
Need help with my ZvP, just cant seem to wrap my head around it. I have two main concerns.
1. If I macro well, I usually max around 16-17 minutes. I go ling infestor with some roach support as well. When I do max before the protoss I have a few mindsets, establish 4th base, tech to broods, and trade with the protoss so they don't get their deathball rolling before I get infestors and broodlords. However for some reason my army seems so weak compared to the protoss. No matter how much I fungal it seems my lings and roaches get melted away by forcefields and colossus and all I'm left with is my infestors which get picked off. I'm not really sure how to engage effectively so that my lings and roaches last long enough for the fungal to take full effect.
2. If the protoss just turtles in his main on 2-3 base, then there are a few problems for me. If I want to trade then I have to go through some narrow chokes which is uber horrible combined with force fields. I can establish 4th and 5th bases and tech to broods, but this means I'll have to get rid of some supply. What is the response here?
On September 08 2011 02:35 Monkeyballs25 wrote: Silver/gold Zerg here. What should I use as a mineral dump against a mech Terran? I'm wary of making too many lings because of how nasty BFHs are.
making lings and roaches. I don't know what composition you are going but do make sure you are making roaches with it.
In opening in zvz, I'm having trouble if what i'm doing is actually detrimental to my economy and am just playing far behind or what i'm doing is actually a viable, decent option to choose.
What I open as in ZvZ, is 14 pool, 15 overlord, and then when my pool is halfway done, i take my gas. When the pool finishes, my gas finishes as well and I immediately put 3 drones in gas. Also, I have enough to get a queen and a roach warren at the same time.
When my pool is finished, however, this is when i send my first drone scout. If i see heavy ling counts, an early pool, and sometimes a 14 hatch, I will 7 rr. If not, Right when my roach warren finishes i make a hatchery around 20 food. I find that, although zerg's sometimes get map control by going sling/bling as an opener (they usually always seem to open like this again me-or just mass slings), they may try to contain me with a ton of slings and deny my expo. I find that if i keep blocking my ramp and shooing them away I can get ahead of them in drone counts.
Yet, If they make A LOT of slings, I just mass roach and attack with around ~20 roaches and block my ramp with a few roaches so none can get up. I stay against a wall and even by pass spine crawlers if they are building and usually win this way. If there are too many slings i will just get a banelings nest and make like 3 banelings.
My ZvZ's don't always end this way, but about 40% of them seem to.
My question is:
• What is wrong with what I am doing? • Is this an okay way to open? • Do you know of any other pro zerg players that open fast roach? anything else you can tell me about my build would be greatly appreciated.
I also open similarly against protoss and terran but i transition into spellings pretty fast, its mainly just dealing with other zerg players. I fear that I am just playing against bad zerg players. I am masters zerg, but I still feel like i'm playing terrible zerg players.
On September 08 2011 01:11 Brodre wrote: Is a 6 pool macro opening viable? (with regards to getting a good economy, not early pressure)
and when would you expand from it? (optimally)
No. The only way to win after 6 pooling is by doing substantial damage with your lings. There's no set time to expand after it. It's all very situational. Deal as much damage as you can, and if you don't feel like you've ended the game, start droning and expand when you can afford it.
On September 09 2011 05:38 Bronzeanteater wrote: In opening in zvz, I'm having trouble if what i'm doing is actually detrimental to my economy and am just playing far behind or what i'm doing is actually a viable, decent option to choose.
What I open as in ZvZ, is 14 pool, 15 overlord, and then when my pool is halfway done, i take my gas. When the pool finishes, my gas finishes as well and I immediately put 3 drones in gas. Also, I have enough to get a queen and a roach warren at the same time.
When my pool is finished, however, this is when i send my first drone scout. If i see heavy ling counts, an early pool, and sometimes a 14 hatch, I will 7 rr. If not, Right when my roach warren finishes i make a hatchery around 20 food. I find that, although zerg's sometimes get map control by going sling/bling as an opener (they usually always seem to open like this again me-or just mass slings), they may try to contain me with a ton of slings and deny my expo. I find that if i keep blocking my ramp and shooing them away I can get ahead of them in drone counts.
Yet, If they make A LOT of slings, I just mass roach and attack with around ~20 roaches and block my ramp with a few roaches so none can get up. I stay against a wall and even by pass spine crawlers if they are building and usually win this way. If there are too many slings i will just get a banelings nest and make like 3 banelings.
My ZvZ's don't always end this way, but about 40% of them seem to.
My question is:
• What is wrong with what I am doing? • Is this an okay way to open? • Do you know of any other pro zerg players that open fast roach? anything else you can tell me about my build would be greatly appreciated.
I also open similarly against protoss and terran but i transition into spellings pretty fast, its mainly just dealing with other zerg players. I fear that I am just playing against bad zerg players. I am masters zerg, but I still feel like i'm playing terrible zerg players.
Your build is very close to being good...
1.) Drone scouting: Why drone scout after the pool is finished? If you're going to drone scout at all (and you should when opening 14 pool) send it around 13-14 supply before starting your pool. This let's you get into his base and make a good read on his build.
1a.) Your drone sees an early pool: Make lings. Win game. 1b.) Your drone sees a fast expand: Get speed, use lings to maintain map control, and win with appropriate resposive play 1c.) Your drone sees pool before gas: all signs point to roaches. You can expand, you can go for +1 slings, you can go mass lings without upgrades, you can go roach/ling... It's a pretty even game 1d.) You see gas before pool: This is a speedling opening. You need to see if he mines more than 100 gas. If he does, its most likely banelings. You should make roaches. If he stops at 100, he's going speedling expand. You should make banelings.
Your drone scout opens all of this up to you. If you don't send the drone, then you'll be sending your first lings, and there's no guarantee that they will get into his base at all. Scouting is everything in ZvZ
2.) Your build order: 14 pool, 15 overlord, 15 (ish?) gas: This is very close to how Nerchio plays, and Nerchio has, in my opinion, the best ZvZ in Europe. His build is 14 pool, 15 gas, 15 overlord. Get gas as soon as possible, because you need to have it available so that you can be appropriately responsive. If you need banes, but you don't have the gas for it, you've just thrown away a chance to win the game.
3.) Opening "fast roach" is the wrong way to think about ZvZ. There is a little bit of "build order warring" that happens in ZvZ.
In general, banes > lings > roaches > banes
You want to make the most informed choice possible based on what you think your opponent is doing. Good scouting means that your guess is more likely to be correct.
In general, though, opening roach is always going to be safe. It's going to put you behind if the other guy goes for a eco heavy build, but there's virtually nothing that the other guy can do to kill you when you open up that way.
On September 08 2011 02:35 Monkeyballs25 wrote: Silver/gold Zerg here. What should I use as a mineral dump against a mech Terran? I'm wary of making too many lings because of how nasty BFHs are.
Often times. hatcheries make good mineral dumps. Just take more expos for the additional gas to balance out your income, what's a meching terran going to do about it?
I'm low diamond purely by working on macro. I have never used infestors, blings, or overseers' contaminate before and I need some tips on how to use them before trying them out on the ladder.
infestors: What are some good units to NP and when should I research it? How can I judge how many infestors I should build?
blings: How many lings should I morph into banelings? How do I use them? I hear A-attacking is bad.
overseers: How many overseers should I have contaminating? Which buildings should I prioritize contaminating?
On September 09 2011 10:28 alihgean wrote: I'm low diamond purely by working on macro. I have never used infestors, blings, or overseers' contaminate before and I need some tips on how to use them before trying them out on the ladder.
infestors: What are some good units to NP and when should I research it? How can I judge how many infestors I should build?
blings: How many lings should I morph into banelings? How do I use them? I hear A-attacking is bad.
overseers: How many overseers should I have contaminating? Which buildings should I prioritize contaminating?
Infestors: NP depends on the matchup, I'd say it's necessary in ZvP and should follow pathogen glands. Less so in ZvT unless you're playing against mech, in which case you'll need it when you already have an established infestor count
Banelings, banelings, banelings OHHH: Your first question is very situation, and I honestly don't know how to answer it. Just build as many as you feel is necessary. As for how to use them, in ZvT you want to move click them towards marines. If you A-move, they'll be more prone to crash into tanks, only A-move them if you're out of tank range and are already wrapped around the marines. In ZvP, drop them from overlords on top of your opponent's army:
Overseers: Erm, contaminate isn't exactly a core spell of zerg. In fact, I'm not sure I've used it at all since season 3 began.
hihi have you zergs ever encountered problems with the 2 rax ?
i'm referring to the moment where the scv drops drop bunkers and theres usually a couple marines already nearby. i usually lose cause i can't seem to get my drones hitting the scv building the bunker(gets so difficult to click the scv once the bunker is bout 50%?), is there any specific method for it ?
a moving sorta makes the drops go nuts and chases after marines/ hits bunker instead of scv etc
On September 09 2011 12:36 B o A wrote: hihi have you zergs ever encountered problems with the 2 rax ?
i'm referring to the moment where the scv drops drop bunkers and theres usually a couple marines already nearby. i usually lose cause i can't seem to get my drones hitting the scv building the bunker(gets so difficult to click the scv once the bunker is bout 50%?), is there any specific method for it ?
a moving sorta makes the drops go nuts and chases after marines/ hits bunker instead of scv etc
On September 09 2011 12:36 B o A wrote: hihi have you zergs ever encountered problems with the 2 rax ?
i'm referring to the moment where the scv drops drop bunkers and theres usually a couple marines already nearby. i usually lose cause i can't seem to get my drones hitting the scv building the bunker(gets so difficult to click the scv once the bunker is bout 50%?), is there any specific method for it ?
a moving sorta makes the drops go nuts and chases after marines/ hits bunker instead of scv etc
Drones are kinda retarded. They need some help. What I do is try to give them time to work out their issues. The first scv that shows up gets tagged with a drone and the drone stays on it until it leaves or starts building a bunker. This way the drone is attacking as soon as the bunker goes down and has plenty of time to kill the scv. When I see the bunker start I also send like 3 or 4 more in case a marine or 2 show up. If I know its a 2 rax or see more scv's coming I send even more. Once your zerglings are out you're safe as long as you got the bunker cleared.
I just got 2 raxed so here's a replay http://www.mediafire.com/?m9k21wwsl9aagax. It wasn't like a super all in proxy thing but he definitely gets very discouraged immediately and backs off leaving me quite far ahead.
Ok. So I don't know if you guys have seen the infestor nerf that just dropped on 1.4. They can no longer target massive units. So... how are we going to deal with collosi?
EPT
One good way to prevent that is when you build your overlords, assign the eggs rally points first before building the rest of your units. This can also help with spreading out your overlords since you can do before they're even hatched! This is probably really obvious, but almost everyone i meet on ladder doesn't do this (plat-gold).
