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You know, here's what I've been thinking (to answer my own question):
If the opponent is going colossi heavy, or void ray heavy (ie he is building a mass t3 deathball with very little gateway support, meaning if there's lots of void rays that implies very few, but powerful units - gateway/VR would get owned by ling/infestor), or massing blink stalkers in end game (does that ever happen? And ling/infestor would destroy that anyways) than Ultralisks are better.
If the opponent is going HT heavy, or gateway heavy, then you should go Broodlord/infestor with roach support. The BL/Infestor combo is extremely strong, but does poorly in situations where Ultralisks own (high amounts of colossi or VR/T3 (HT or colossi or archon).
A standard Stalker/Colossi army, (or more appropriately the P will go for zealot/colossi since stalkers only useful against roaches and air) with HT support, a very 'normal' army, I think, would be better off using Ling/Infestor with roaches as a 'band-aid' against the increasing HT number until you can get Hive Tech, into Ultra/Baneling/Infestor.
To deal with Zealots, you got with roaches if you think BL is more appropriate (ie he's heavier on HT or gateway), or banelings if you think Ultralisks are more appropriate (ie he's heavier on Colossi, like 'normal' stalker/colossi or deathball play, or he's doing a ridiculous T3 deathball, like VR/HT or VR/Archon or Carrier/Colossi or HT/Colossi).
What do you guys think about that? I guess that means you want to identify if he's going for HT+Gateway, or VR or Colossi focused builds.
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How many drones on 2 bases would be optimal? I usually get my 3rd when I'm around 40~50 drones. Is it OK?
What is the best way to engage bio tank? I always have the right composition (muta/bling/ling) but sometimes struggle breaking the siege line.
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So what are the telltale signs of a 2port banshee or any sort of banshee play before you can get a lair and get out an overseer?
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On August 14 2011 19:48 They_ wrote:
How many drones on 2 bases would be optimal? I usually get my 3rd when I'm around 40~50 drones. Is it OK?
What is the best way to engage bio tank? I always have the right composition (muta/bling/ling) but sometimes struggle breaking the siege line.
For most efficient mining, 3 on each geyser, 2 on each mineral patch. So that's 8*2+2*3 per base, 44 drones for 2 bases. Though, you don't have to be fully saturated to take a 3rd, the extra larva it provides is always helpful and, especially in zvz, you'll need some bases just for the gas in a lot of cases.
On August 14 2011 23:50 deathtrance wrote:
So what are the telltale signs of a 2port banshee or any sort of banshee play before you can get a lair and get out an overseer?
Gas before barracks is a good sign that banshees are coming, as well as seeing hellions without blue flame, yet no expo behind the pressure. Other than that, banshees killing you is also a good tell, as silly as it sounds. I always build 4 queens before lair (unless my opponent went 2rax) and a precautionary evolution chamber, so I can simply spam spores if I see more than one banshee come out.
On August 14 2011 15:25 Belial88 wrote:
You know, here's what I've been thinking (to answer my own question):
If the opponent is going colossi heavy, or void ray heavy (ie he is building a mass t3 deathball with very little gateway support, meaning if there's lots of void rays that implies very few, but powerful units - gateway/VR would get owned by ling/infestor), or massing blink stalkers in end game (does that ever happen? And ling/infestor would destroy that anyways) than Ultralisks are better.
If the opponent is going HT heavy, or gateway heavy, then you should go Broodlord/infestor with roach support. The BL/Infestor combo is extremely strong, but does poorly in situations where Ultralisks own (high amounts of colossi or VR/T3 (HT or colossi or archon).
A standard Stalker/Colossi army, (or more appropriately the P will go for zealot/colossi since stalkers only useful against roaches and air) with HT support, a very 'normal' army, I think, would be better off using Ling/Infestor with roaches as a 'band-aid' against the increasing HT number until you can get Hive Tech, into Ultra/Baneling/Infestor.
To deal with Zealots, you got with roaches if you think BL is more appropriate (ie he's heavier on HT or gateway), or banelings if you think Ultralisks are more appropriate (ie he's heavier on Colossi, like 'normal' stalker/colossi or deathball play, or he's doing a ridiculous T3 deathball, like VR/HT or VR/Archon or Carrier/Colossi or HT/Colossi).
What do you guys think about that? I guess that means you want to identify if he's going for HT+Gateway, or VR or Colossi focused builds.
I still stand by my reasoning, that what the protoss is going for is the least important factor. What matters to me is the map terrain, how spread out my opponent is, if I think I have the lead, and what my infestor count looks like going into hive tech. I already explained my logic behind maps and spread-out-ed-ness, but for my other two points:
Brood lords aren't exactly a unit used for longevity. To me, they're used as a way of forcing engagements with their long range, as other zerg units have low range and it can be rather easy to retreat/turtle up. This means that if I think I can crush the protoss army, and I just need to force the engagement, broods are a good choice. If I feel like I might be playing on the back foot, then ultras, combined with nydus worms, are a great way of killing expansions hit-and-run style, even though I probably won't go for hive if I'm behind.
As for infestors, if I go into hive with a high infestor count then that normally favors ultras, because if you're opponent isn't fungaled then you just get kited to hell, if they are then your ultras will do rather insane damage. If I have a medium-ish infestor count, then I'll prefer broods because the protoss response is most likely going to be blinking stalkers under the broods, which puts me in a scenario where baneling drops to most of the damage as the stalkers have burned their blink and are now clumped up.
I still think map is the most important factor, but these are just some other thoughts.
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i don't know if it's asked before i've tried searching but couldn't find sorry if this was asked before.
i've seen at destiny's stream that he throws all of his infested terrans at once (ofc as much as infestor's energy allows it) how does he do that? (which key combination)
Thanks!
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On August 15 2011 04:58 Apophenic wrote:
i don't know if it's asked before i've tried searching but couldn't find sorry if this was asked before.
i've seen at destiny's stream that he throws all of his infested terrans at once (ofc as much as infestor's energy allows it) how does he do that? (which key combination)
Thanks!
Tell the infestor to move somewhere, then shift+t then click a bunch. The infestor will not launch the infested terrans until they reach the end of the initial move command, giving you time to queue up the infested terrans. This will result in all the queued terrans launching all at once, as soon as the infestor reaches the end of the move command.
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How do u hold a 15 hatch vs a 2rax w/bunkers in close PO? I bring 6 drones (1 or 2 on scv building bunker and the rest on marines) but bunker always gets up with the first or 2nd scv.
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you dont unless the other player sucks. just open gas first for speedlings
er if that wasnt clear, its not possible to expand vs 2 rax bunks in close positions. you just have to use 14 extractor 14 pool build then expand after you get lings. Yeah it sucks if you get cross positions but its actually not that bad. otherwise its auto lose every time in close spawns.
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I was watching Catz today and he was playing a Terran that tried to 1 rax FE. He 7 roach rushed and won. Is this a good reaction if the Terran has only 1 rax at his front? Or should I just go about things like I normally would meaning Im still blind and have no clue what else he has in his base.
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On August 15 2011 05:36 MageWarden wrote:
How do u hold a 15 hatch vs a 2rax w/bunkers in close PO? I bring 6 drones (1 or 2 on scv building bunker and the rest on marines) but bunker always gets up with the first or 2nd scv.
Best bet is to not 15 hatch if you find them in close positions. Save up enough for a spine and hope that it finishes. Also Hatches have a good amount of HP so they can take some hits dont go crazy about 1 or 2 marines in a bunker shooting your hatch. Just try to get that spine up and make enough stuff to kill the bunkers.
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On August 15 2011 07:51 thane wrote:
I was watching Catz today and he was playing a Terran that tried to 1 rax FE. He 7 roach rushed and won. Is this a good reaction if the Terran has only 1 rax at his front? Or should I just go about things like I normally would meaning Im still blind and have no clue what else he has in his base.
I don't think you can go 7 roach rush reactionary, seeing as you should have an expansion on 15 somewhere in your build (before or after pool) and you need to 12 pool for the 7 roach rush.
On August 15 2011 05:36 MageWarden wrote:
How do u hold a 15 hatch vs a 2rax w/bunkers in close PO? I bring 6 drones (1 or 2 on scv building bunker and the rest on marines) but bunker always gets up with the first or 2nd scv.
It's the reason close positions shouldn't exist, honestly. Though, if you do find yourself in this position, don't be afraid to pull 8-10 drones until you can get your pool out.
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On August 15 2011 07:57 Soluhwin wrote:Show nested quote +On August 15 2011 07:51 thane wrote:
I was watching Catz today and he was playing a Terran that tried to 1 rax FE. He 7 roach rushed and won. Is this a good reaction if the Terran has only 1 rax at his front? Or should I just go about things like I normally would meaning Im still blind and have no clue what else he has in his base. I don't think you can go 7 roach rush reactionary, seeing as you should have an expansion on 15 somewhere in your build (before or after pool) and you need to 12 pool for the 7 roach rush.
Hmm ok sounds good he was probably already on his way through the build I wasnt watching very close at the time.
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Is there anyone who can give me a good zvt build? I am so fucking frustrated with this matchup right now. I constantly have to deal with delayed pushes, blue flame hellions. I feel like I can't deal with my own mistakes without getting angry, trying to fix the mistakes in the next game then encountering some new kind of all in build that just destroys me or cripples the early game economy because Im scared at terran pushes.
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Sorry if this is a stupid question but can someone give me some advice about dealing with spell casters in ZvX? Terran have EMP, Protoss have feedback but I don't see how I can either deny energy or easily snipe mass casters as zerg. Any advice much appreciated
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@greatZERG
I guess the closest thing zergs have to draining opponent's spell points is to NP the unit with an infestor and use the spells on your own. You don't have a parallel attack to EMP/feedback though.
Back in BW mutas were the spellcaster snipers and thats still kinda valid in SC2. However, if you see a large number of spellcasters together, a baneling bomb would be good (if you can reach them, maybe flank with the OLs).
Also, spellcasters don't do much against some units. For example, storm isn't good vs ultras because of their size.
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Hi, I'm a Bronze/Silver level Zerg player who needs help against Terran. I'm new to this forum so I am sorry if this is posted in the wrong thread. I've been getting a lot of help from more experienced Zerg players on how to deal with Terran however I really wanted to try out this forum as it is always recommended to me by other players. Rather than type out all of the scenarios I have trouble with against Terran I thought I'd just post a replay.
Replay
Thank you in advance for any and all help I receive for this.
To go into a bit more detail over what exactly I'm having trouble with:
I'm not sure exactly how to counter Thors. I know about the "magic box" trick with mutas, however being a lower level player I have been unable to pull it off that successfully... I normally win my games with mutalisks to take out the wall off of a base and then swarm with zerglings. The early game for me is alright for my lvl imo but the late game is always something I have trouble with. Knowing when to expand is an example of this, and also an effective method for injections with the queen is also something I have trouble with. Thanks again for any help.
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What time should I build a macro hatch? I struggle sometimes to pump drones/units and I have a lot of money. Before taking 3rd or after taking 3rd?
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^ A few things to consider:
1. Are you banking minerals? Always a good time to throw a macro hatch down, and you already have mass spines or harass isn't an issue.
2. Are you going ling heavy or roach heavy? Is it early game or end game? Do you plan to stay on hatch tech for a long time and focus on macro, or are you planning to get mutas/infestors/hydras/burrow move tech units quickly?
3. Do you plan to be aggressive with your tech of choice, or do you plan to use it as a means to secure a third?
So for example, if your going fast third base, like vs FFE, you may want a macro hatch fairly quickly. If you are going a ling based build, like ling/infestor opening on 2 base, or ling/speedbane on 2 base into third (and then getting late mutas), you will want a macro hatch around 65 supply.
Check out your games when you start to bank minerals and when larva becomes an issue. You can support constant ling production on 2 hatches with around 30 drones, and since 50 is full saturation, this means you may want to either significantly cut drone production and do a ling timing attack by massing lings, or throw a macro hatch quickly if you are droning up.
For example, if I am going macro heavy ling/infestor, like on a large map, I will just purely drone up, get my lair around 40ish supply, and get my macro hatch at about 65 supply. If I plan to be more aggressive with ling/infestor, like maybe against an opponent I see who I think is either trying to take a fast third or put on some kind of pressure, then I will get my lair around 50ish supply, and then make pure lings only for a very long time.
Another example, in ZvT, is that mutas are very light on larva and eat up gas very quickly, but will leave you banking a huge amount of resources even on 2 base, much less 3. Just watch Idra play ZvT, and you'll notice (i think a flaw in his gameplay) that he banks lots of minerals and rarely gets macro hatch.
Generally, you always want to be taking your third base around 60ish supply, which is the same time you'll need a macro hatch. Depending on if I think I can defend an opponents pressure or not, I will either make an in-base hatch at around 60-70 supply, or take a third. I will then get another hatch about 10-20 supply later. If you can't get a third after 100 supply your in pretty bad shape.
So that's how I look at it. I always need a 3rd hatch at about 65ish supply with ling based builds, and if I can't take a third then I'll make it in-base. If I took a third, I'll get a macro hatch, and if I made a macro hatch I should be able to macro up a large enough army to forcefully take my third 10 supply later. It may differ based on your lair timings (later macro hatch if you lair faster) as well, but just watch all of your recent replays, and take a look at when your money starts to consistently stay above 300 minerals.
Identify when you start to bank minerals, and then time out your build so that your macro hatch pops at that time. I find I bank minerals around 75 supply with ling based builds, so I get a macro hatch around 65 supply to time it out (that's only if I can't take a third, by the way). Even if I go super fast 3rd hatch, I find a macro hatch around 65 supply always is right.
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Hello,
ZvP
Iam low diamond zerg and i really have a bad ZvP. In this last game,mechanics aside, i was raped by forcefields and colossus. My micro is really bad,in all the engagements i have the feeling that i could have done much more with better micro. ¿Any ideas to fix this mess and improve in my micro?
Advices of unit composition and mechanics in general are welcome too, dont hesitate to throw anything 
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V terran, specifically mech, is it worth massing mutas, 20+ like ret or idra's style, or is it better to just go straight into mass infestor with np, and rush broodlords (3base, maybe 4 on some maps)?
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EPT
