EPTAnother thing: I'd recommend scouting earlier in TvZ so you can get by the wall off. Had you seen what was in the opponent's base, you could have delayed that first spine you built for a little while, which simply creates more efficiency in your play. I usually scout on 12. As for scouting something like this, when you saw that tech lab on the rax alarm bells should have gone off immediately, terrans will almost never make reactor then tech lab before expand unless they're going for hellion into banshee, hellion/marauder, or some wonky tank rush like you just experienced.
The Zerg Help Me Thread - Page 72
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Make sure you read the OP before asking a question. Asking a question already addressed in the OP will result in moderation action. Also, please put some effort into your questions. | ||
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Soluhwin
United States1287 Posts
Another thing: I'd recommend scouting earlier in TvZ so you can get by the wall off. Had you seen what was in the opponent's base, you could have delayed that first spine you built for a little while, which simply creates more efficiency in your play. I usually scout on 12. As for scouting something like this, when you saw that tech lab on the rax alarm bells should have gone off immediately, terrans will almost never make reactor then tech lab before expand unless they're going for hellion into banshee, hellion/marauder, or some wonky tank rush like you just experienced. | ||
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Malpractice.248
United States734 Posts
Are hydras near useless now? lol... | ||
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Mjolnir
912 Posts
ZvP question here: I hear a lot of talk about roach/corruptor being "dead" as a strategy. I'm not really fond of ling/infestor because I think it's very unstable against Protoss who have seen it. What would you guys say is the preferred go-to strat for ZvP in general? I guess I'm wondering if my success with roach/corruptor is a fluke and there's been a shift in strats that I'm missing which will bite me in the ass later. Almost everything I've read claims that roach infestor not (or shouldn't be) a viable option. Thanks in advance! | ||
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ThreeStep
10 Posts
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Soluhwin
United States1287 Posts
On August 12 2011 05:56 Malpractice.248 wrote: So i just came back, and i keep trying a ling/hydra/inf build vs P, but getting crushed a lot. Are hydras near useless now? lol... Hydras have always been of questionable worth in sc2, and with the ling/infestor mid game you want all of your gas to go to infestors and melee upgrades, I'm not sure why you're incorporating hydras. On August 12 2011 06:14 Mjolnir wrote: ZvP question here: I hear a lot of talk about roach/corruptor being "dead" as a strategy. I'm not really fond of ling/infestor because I think it's very unstable against Protoss who have seen it. What would you guys say is the preferred go-to strat for ZvP in general? I guess I'm wondering if my success with roach/corruptor is a fluke and there's been a shift in strats that I'm missing which will bite me in the ass later. Almost everything I've read claims that roach infestor not (or shouldn't be) a viable option. Thanks in advance! I always play reactionary, even with my mid-game plans. Though, the composition I've become most fond of is roach/baneling, or roach/infestor if your opponent went fast blink. I'm not sure where you read that it wasn't good, but I'd disagree. Also, mutalisks certainly aren't dead so if you feel comfortable with an aggressive, semi-risky style then look at incorporating a muta switch when lair rolls out. On August 12 2011 06:22 ThreeStep wrote: What would you recommend vs a protoss that makes nothing but voidrays (lower leagues of course)? I'm currently split between mutas and corruptors, not sure which one is a better option Infestors are necessarily vs. high numbers of anything because of splash damage, particularly air because of how clumped up air units can get. | ||
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AustinCM
Canada275 Posts
I couldn't scout this dude and he made like 10 hellions and dropped like 2 places and came at my front and killed 45 drones it was retarded, i had mutas also. Wtf can I do about this? Do I need to go roaches now? Also I scouted the front and he replaced his rax with a cc so i couldnt see what his opening was | ||
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AxelTVx
Canada916 Posts
On August 12 2011 07:13 AustinCM wrote: what is the proper response to hellion openings? I couldn't scout this dude and he made like 10 hellions and dropped like 2 places and came at my front and killed 45 drones it was retarded, i had mutas also. Wtf can I do about this? Do I need to go roaches now? Also I scouted the front and he replaced his rax with a cc so i couldnt see what his opening was The signs of Helions: Early gas only a few marines guarding the ramp CC in base If you believe that it is helions after seeing these factors, you should react by getting a roach warren down. In addition, when you retreat your drones, send them to your main base and place your queens there or roaches to block the ramp so the helions can not get up. | ||
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jolenar
United States23 Posts
I've currently been getting them after I get 5-6 gases running and have at least 6 infestors. Also only when the T or P guy is trying to take his third; 2-base T or P is kind of difficult to drop cause their entire army is there. Not sure if there's a better way though. I rarely see pro games use drops at all. | ||
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Soluhwin
United States1287 Posts
On August 12 2011 10:10 jolenar wrote: When is a good time to get drops vs T and P? I've currently been getting them after I get 5-6 gases running and have at least 6 infestors. Also only when the T or P guy is trying to take his third; 2-base T or P is kind of difficult to drop cause their entire army is there. Not sure if there's a better way though. I rarely see pro games use drops at all. I generally don't get drops vs terran, but vs protoss, unless I'm going mutas, I'll plan my gas timings to get drops as soon as lair pops. Then time banelings and overlord speed to finish when drops do. | ||
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VoirDire
Sweden1923 Posts
On August 12 2011 10:10 jolenar wrote: When is a good time to get drops vs T and P? I've currently been getting them after I get 5-6 gases running and have at least 6 infestors. Also only when the T or P guy is trying to take his third; 2-base T or P is kind of difficult to drop cause their entire army is there. Not sure if there's a better way though. I rarely see pro games use drops at all. Watch morrows zvp. He gets drop quite fast and does baneling drops on the worker line and to combat forcefields. Then he drops 3 ols with lings in the main as a distraction while he takes down the 3rd/4th with his main army. There is also the 2 base hydra drop all-in that's good vs tech openings. Unless you're going for one of those, I don't think drop is worth it to get until the opponent has another main base and is really spread out. | ||
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Soluhwin
United States1287 Posts
On August 12 2011 10:32 VoirDire wrote: Watch morrows zvp. He gets drop quite fast and does baneling drops on the worker line and to combat forcefields. Then he drops 3 ols with lings in the main as a distraction while he takes down the 3rd/4th with his main army. There is also the 2 base hydra drop all-in that's good vs tech openings. Unless you're going for one of those, I don't think drop is worth it to get until the opponent has another main base and is really spread out. I'd disagree, drop is always a useful utility to have for counter attacks. The ability to use overlord as portals, per say, gives you the ability to ignore the terrain and make units, that are normally slow (by zerg standards) and straightforward such as ultras, hydras, or banelings, more effective in a general sense. | ||
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michaelhasanalias
Korea (South)1231 Posts
Could someone explain the decision process here? | ||
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blade55555
United States17423 Posts
On August 12 2011 11:41 michaelhasanalias wrote: why do some zergs take a third and leave it idle for X time? I've seen Nestea and IdrA do it. Sometimes it even sits there with 3 larva in spite of limited or inaction. Could someone explain the decision process here? Well without you going into detail on the game I can guess a couple things. They plan on doing aggression and if it doesn't win they can just drone up the third base as long as they do some damage and not get crushed. They just forget about it during some sort of aggression by opponent or they see an opportunity to be aggressive and thus make constant units. Could use it to make the opponent think he's going into a macro game, but really is going to all in and thus he doesn't make as much defense. Without references to games where this happened these are all I can come up with at this moment. If I saw the games or the situations I might be able to make a better guess  | ||
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jolenar
United States23 Posts
Roaches seem obvious but they just cost way too much for a meatshield, and Thors and Siege Tanks do like maximum damage to them so they just evaporate as fast as lings do to BFHs. Is there a timing where I can doom drop his main with roaches while he's transitioning from hellion/tank into thor/tank? | ||
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[Noman]
19 Posts
On August 12 2011 05:44 Soluhwin wrote: @[Noman] Patience was certainly the reason you lost. There was no reason to engage when you did, you just felt pressured to do something about that tank at your front door, when in reality it wasn't damaging anything. You needed more time to get the necessary forces up. As for stuff running in and attacking, use hold position. The H key is your friend, get in the habit of putting your units on hold whenever they aren't moving. Another thing: I'd recommend scouting earlier in TvZ so you can get by the wall off. Had you seen what was in the opponent's base, you could have delayed that first spine you built for a little while, which simply creates more efficiency in your play. I usually scout on 12. As for scouting something like this, when you saw that tech lab on the rax alarm bells should have gone off immediately, terrans will almost never make reactor then tech lab before expand unless they're going for hellion into banshee, hellion/marauder, or some wonky tank rush like you just experienced. Thanks! A more general question - assuming I know (or at least suspect) that a similar timing push (helions into fast siege tanks - ~8 min or even earlier) is coming. What is the correct response as Z? (For those who didn't see the original message, this is the rep : http://www.sc2replayed.com/replays/174975-1v1-terran-zerg-backwater-gulch ) | ||
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Soluhwin
United States1287 Posts
On August 12 2011 15:06 [Noman] wrote: Thanks! A more general question - assuming I know (or at least suspect) that a similar timing push (helions into fast siege tanks - ~8 min or even earlier) is coming. What is the correct response as Z? (For those who didn't see the original message, this is the rep : http://www.sc2replayed.com/replays/174975-1v1-terran-zerg-backwater-gulch ) Have more stuff, really. If I had to pick a key unit, I'd say roaches given how many hellions your opponent has, and one tank shouldn't be that hard to snipe. Just make sure you aren't supply blocked, I've lost countless dumb games because of not being able to get out units due to not enough overlords...oh god the nightmares. | ||
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Shen_
United States8 Posts
On maps without an easy/obvious 3rd (Taldarim because of rocks, xelnaga caverns, shattered temple) how should i drone when saturated on 2 bases? (2 per mineral patch, 3 per gas). Should i focus only on units until a 3rd can be taken? | ||
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Arisen
United States2382 Posts
On August 12 2011 15:37 Shen_ wrote: Here is an economy related question On maps without an easy/obvious 3rd (Taldarim because of rocks, xelnaga caverns, shattered temple) how should i drone when saturated on 2 bases? (2 per mineral patch, 3 per gas). Should i focus only on units until a 3rd can be taken? There's no easy answer, it's whatever strategy you're playing on that map. IF the third is hard to take, you generally see zerg being agressive to gain map control so he can secure his third and be able to drone, but some like super early infestors for a defensive play. You can opt onto a 2 base timing, all in, go mutalisks for map control, etc. How you take your third is generally the important part of builds in my mind. The best way is to just watch a bunch of pro VODs on that map and see what they're doing and ask yourself what he's doing and how it relates to his third, and why he's doing what he's doing. | ||
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houstil
France57 Posts
I usually try to break the middle pylon with 3 drones and then rush the cannon with just enough drones and my first lings to take it down. But with good building placement the toss will put his cannon right behind the middle pylon and surround it with 2 more pylons (total of 4) to complete the wall-of. I does not give you enough surface area to destroy the cannon in time. On a map like Typhon Peaks it's very painful because it takes a very long time to take down the wall with a spine crawler. Basically it force you into some sort of one base all-in, not that good. Do I have to patrol a drone at the bottom of my ramp until my pool pops ? If so when should I bring him there ? | ||
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Garby
United States16 Posts
Two games in a row on the ladder just now, I've run into Protoss in a mad rush for Void Rays against me. Both times I feel I responded poorly - I quickly planted an Evo and 4 Spores. In the first game, this was (barely) enough to let me win, but in the second game my early roaches did substantially less damage to his base. When I finally did get comfortable macroing a bit, I went to take the watch tower, and bam, a huge army of Stalkers and Colossus beset me. Clearly I was behind way further than I thought I was. I feel a little frustrated right now, because I'm not really sure how I can stop Toss from busting out Void Rays that quickly, and I'm definitely not sure how to punish them for it. I'm even less sure how I can expand behind that; they can just camp their void rays over my natural, and Queens are very slow (and Spores' 7 range always feels like not enough, and besides that there's no creep down there for awhile). I'm also not sure how I can scout his army comp with this build once I've retreated to my base; VRs and Phoenix really work slowerlords. I'm sure there's something in these replays that will be obvious to a higher level player's eyes, so here they are. Help is greatly appreciated. http://dl.dropbox.com/u/259199/stargate_rush_1.SC2Replay http://dl.dropbox.com/u/259199/stargate_rush_2.SC2Replay | ||
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