EPTThe Zerg Help Me Thread - Page 63
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Make sure you read the OP before asking a question. Asking a question already addressed in the OP will result in moderation action. Also, please put some effort into your questions. | ||
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nicke10
Sweden114 Posts
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Ownerage
Canada16 Posts
On July 28 2011 01:30 ZasZ. wrote: Attach a replay if you want them to be really helpful, but it sounds like you went straight to Infestors which is vulnerable to a fast Marine/Tank timing. You need to have Ling/Bane or Roach/Bane for this push, with good creep spread, and preferably Baneling Speed, although it's not necessary. Going straight to Infestors will get you killed in any matchup. Here's the replay : http://sc2rep.com/replays/(T)Rek_vs_(Z)PinkFloyd__sc2rep_com_20110727/11731 | ||
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Requizen
United States33802 Posts
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Supert0fu
United States499 Posts
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Ninja_Bread
United States113 Posts
On July 28 2011 02:07 Supert0fu wrote: What is the ideal late game army mix? I can generally macro well, but I am not sure if I am using the right mix of units. It depends on your opponents composition. | ||
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maragin
United States59 Posts
Thanks in advance. | ||
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Harpoon_5
25 Posts
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[F_]aths
Germany3947 Posts
On July 26 2011 11:03 nicke10 wrote: I am still only a Silver zerg, but I have some success when I try to do it like Darkforce. I use his games to study match-ups.Who's a good zerg to mimic that plays really standard and really strong macro focused play? I know IdrA is the perfect example but his tmings is so crisp and relay on perfect things like drones blocking Hellions and stuff like that. Is darkforce this guy perhaps? A consistet player | ||
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Emporio
United States3069 Posts
On July 28 2011 18:07 [F_]aths wrote: I am still only a Silver zerg, but I have some success when I try to do it like Darkforce. I use his games to study match-ups. I've recently liked watching vibe since he is really macro oriented in the early and midgame. Watching him play really gave me an understanding for he constant multitasking and awareness that really makes Zerg shine. From what I've seen he plays faiy standard though his late game can be kinda unique and wonky compared to the usual. | ||
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dementrio
678 Posts
Assuming to go up against the popular reactor hellion opening, I've been having a lot of trouble in the window of time where terran has map control. I have no way of knowing how many hellions he is making, and most of the time i can't even scout if he is getting blue flame. since i have very limited map vision he can potentially run in at any time with 10 hellions and even losing a few drones and making a few zerlings is game-losing, as with the fast lair and extractors i have been mining a lot of gas that i can't use. What is the "correct" way to play 2 base muta? | ||
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BuddhiBadugi
Germany45 Posts
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DeltruS
Canada2214 Posts
The problem I am having is when a terran pushes out with a large amount of marines right as or before my mutas pop out. Getting banelings takes so much gas that it delays everything heavily, and they can't really be reactionary. Infestors are too late for this push. I've tried getting baneling mines as a low gas counter, but they don't work all the time. Does anyone have any tips for this style? ( mutas to stop drops into infestors + heavy upgrades) | ||
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adrd
Poland7 Posts
even if I have as many exp's as I want and I rebuild my army to 200 in seconds I still can't beat protoss I'm not really good, but I think that I should win vs protoss which has less income than me, but it seems like he is not losing almost any units when killing my 200/200 army My winrate vs protoss is low and when it comes to lategame it's probably around 10% :/ here is example replay: http://db.tt/bwvQyAa | ||
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Tachion
Canada8573 Posts
On July 28 2011 22:14 adrd wrote: It seems I never win lategame vs protoss even if I have as many exp's as I want and I rebuild my army to 200 in seconds I still can't beat protoss I'm not really good, but I think that I should win vs protoss which has less income than me, but it seems like he is not losing almost any units when killing my 200/200 army My winrate vs protoss is low and when it comes to lategame it's probably around 10% :/ here is example replay: http://db.tt/bwvQyAa This is master's right? It strikes me as so from the game. Honestly I think it came down to your unit composition in that game. You just kept attacking head on into his army again and again, and by the end you had lost 15,000 resources in units more than him. That's a....gargantuan difference :p If you had been making trades a bit more evenly you would have ran him over. Roach/Hydra/Corruptor suffers pretty bad against Protoss death balls, especially voidray/colossus. It's the only unit comp I used up till a month or two ago. To even attempt to make it work, you have to work on multi-pronged attacks and drops. Load up hydras and drop his main while you threaten another expo with your roaches and split up his army. You may not be able to engage his army head on, but his army is much weaker when split up, so you have to force it through drops and runbys and counters etc. Your other option is to incorporate more aoe units into your composition to make more effective trades. Roach/ling + baneling drops or ling/infestor are very popular these days. Both deal with 200/200 Protoss balls more effectively than I ever saw roach/hydra/corruptor do. | ||
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adrd
Poland7 Posts
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GenesisX
Canada4267 Posts
On July 28 2011 21:19 DeltruS wrote: ZvT I am having a ton of trouble mid game. Here is my current style:
The problem I am having is when a terran pushes out with a large amount of marines right as or before my mutas pop out. Getting banelings takes so much gas that it delays everything heavily, and they can't really be reactionary. Infestors are too late for this push. I've tried getting baneling mines as a low gas counter, but they don't work all the time. Does anyone have any tips for this style? ( mutas to stop drops into infestors + heavy upgrades) My style is very similar to this, except I usually skip the spire completely. (I'm favoring an infestor heavy style of play just because they are so damn good, but mutas are strong too, so idk, I'm torn  ) My suggestion is to delay the spire? If you start your infestation pit once lair finishes and pathogen glands once pit finishes, you should have many (6+) 75 energy infestors when the Terran decides to move out. You should be able to scout any drops with overlords and since you take all 4 gasses at the same time, you will have a ton of surplus minerals. You can usually hold off the 2-medvac-marine-drop with only lings with good enough positioning, and usually a Terran won't push out before infestors pop out unless they are hitting a really crucial timing or all in attack.On July 28 2011 20:46 BuddhiBadugi wrote: When my larvae pops (or when it has already and I just notice), sometimes, I produce units first and inject afterwards and sometimes I do it the other way around. Is there an order that is generally better? When I Need combat units asap, it should be out of question to get the units first. But if there is no pressure going on...what do you prefer? I believe injecting first is always the best option. Producing units only takes a short while, but injecting larvae is not the same as chrono boost or muleing. Other race's macro mechanics can be banked and saved, but injecting can only be done one at a time, so the more time you aren't injecting means less production in the future. You will eventually end up with a surplus of energy if you do this. Larvae can be banked up, but injecting time can't. This is why you always want your hatchery to be spawning larvae and you always want your Queen energy to be <30. On July 28 2011 19:56 dementrio wrote: I have been opening roach with fast 3rd in zvt for a long time, so i forgot how to play "standard" 2 base muta ling. Assuming to go up against the popular reactor hellion opening, I've been having a lot of trouble in the window of time where terran has map control. I have no way of knowing how many hellions he is making, and most of the time i can't even scout if he is getting blue flame. since i have very limited map vision he can potentially run in at any time with 10 hellions and even losing a few drones and making a few zerlings is game-losing, as with the fast lair and extractors i have been mining a lot of gas that i can't use. What is the "correct" way to play 2 base muta? You generally won't have map control with only lings against hellions. Even with ling speed, hellions can outmicro lings forever. You usually regain map control once you can start producing mutas. To defend against hellions, you should add a few spine crawlers and sim city your natural to prevent run-bys. Its usually very rare that a Terran will make THAT many hellions (10+), but you should always poke with lings at the Terran natural and timing scout his main with a slow overlord. Another way to play is to massive ling counter attack. This forces the Terran to run back and therefore take any pressure off you. + Show Spoiler + see GSTL BbongBbong vs TOP? I think that was the game, it was on Bel Shir Beach | ||
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thane
United States407 Posts
On July 28 2011 01:38 nicke10 wrote: Is there anyone that have made a writeup on LosirAs play ZvP? Like when he gets hydras, when he gets x upgrades, when he gets gases, when he gets lair etc? Im sure there is if you use the search function and if not Im sure you can find plenty of replays or VODs. Im guessing you are referring to the game where he nydus'd all over at mlg?!?!(I think) If so the reason he did that was a response to forge first. If the protoss goes forge first into expand then I get lair before ling speed, then I get ovi speed and drop a hydra den. Why? You cant break a wall with lings without taking heavy losses. The speed helps you scout whats going on in his base and to see his unit makeup. If hes locked inside his 2 bases then hes only got a couple options: 1.) Break down the wall. 2.)warp in units somewhere on the map. 3.) Go air play. 4.) Warp Prism which seems to be rare at this point. 5.)Mass up and move out. Really you only need about 8 hydra to defend the air play because he can transition to standard deathball easily. All other options having overlord speed allows for efficient scouting as well as good overlord placement and knowledge of movement. | ||
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thane
United States407 Posts
On July 28 2011 21:19 DeltruS wrote: ZvT I am having a ton of trouble mid game. Here is my current style:
The problem I am having is when a terran pushes out with a large amount of marines right as or before my mutas pop out. Getting banelings takes so much gas that it delays everything heavily, and they can't really be reactionary. Infestors are too late for this push. I've tried getting baneling mines as a low gas counter, but they don't work all the time. Does anyone have any tips for this style? ( mutas to stop drops into infestors + heavy upgrades) Not that style but I go 14 hatch, 14 pool, 14 extractor IN THAT ORDER. Make 6 lings, get ling speed at 100 then pull off gas and saturate my 2 bases. Back in gas and take the other 3 gases, go Lair, get +1 melee and carapace, get baneling speed asap after lair is done. I do not get mutas until after I have my third bases gas. I may be an odd person but I feel like mutas are not good until you get over 10 of them in ZvT so I dont want them until I can afford it as well as be able to make ample banelings. | ||
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XXhkXX
170 Posts
Anyways, I haven't been doing so hot in diamond. It seems to me that diamond is even cheesier than bronze league (if thats even possible) -______-. Anyways, out of the 15 or some games I have played, only 3 have been straight up games, where people have actually used viable strategies (including all-ins). The other games seem to be full of cheese. Primarily from terrans. I typically go 14 14, as I find it safe and I can hold most early agression (other than a BitbyBit all in) off with 5 or 6 drones, however recently even though I have been able to hold off the various bunker rushes that terrans have thrown at me, it seems that I can never take the lead. For example. One terran threw away roughly 12 marines and an scv at me and I was able to crush it and save my expo. He expanded behind it. Knowing that he couldn't have teched to seige tech so early, I decided to counter with roach ling. However he had two seige tanks, and one bunker which decimated me. In another game a similar thing happened. this time the guy threw away 5 marines a bunker and an scv. I kept my expo. This time I decided to play it safe and take my third. At the same time I launched a roach ling bling atk on his natural. I was able to crush his natural expo, and then knowing that seige tech had come up, I retreated with my army and my third was up. I knew I was pretty comfortably in the lead so I macroed up. And next thing I know he doom drops me with tanks on a ledge (god bad memories of lost temple). I hadn't even droned up that hard, however he was able to kill my third and then kill me with his tanks and marines, which walked over my roach ling bling army (my spire was just popping up). tl;dr: . So anyways I have two questions. When does seige tech typically come up for a terran? and also What maps have you guys thumbsed down? I think I have thumbsed down most of the new maps but which ones in specific have you guys thumbsed down? | ||
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DarKFoRcE
Germany1215 Posts
On July 28 2011 21:19 DeltruS wrote: ZvT I am having a ton of trouble mid game. Here is my current style:
The problem I am having is when a terran pushes out with a large amount of marines right as or before my mutas pop out. Getting banelings takes so much gas that it delays everything heavily, and they can't really be reactionary. Infestors are too late for this push. I've tried getting baneling mines as a low gas counter, but they don't work all the time. Does anyone have any tips for this style? ( mutas to stop drops into infestors + heavy upgrades) well thats just really terrible, you go for dual upgrades, mutas and infestation pit off 2 bases, what the fuck? i know this is going to sound like me being an asshole, but have you ever seen a top korean zerg play like this? i think not. just copy the koreans and dont think you are smart enough/have enough experience etc. to make up your own.. err builds or whatever you wanna call this. just learn to play standard, 15h14p, gas depending on map. then just 1 evo chamber and a banelingnest and/or roachwarren. then get spire at t2 and a sometimes macrohatch and take a third when you feel like its save to do so (matter of experience). | ||
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