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Make sure you read the OP before asking a question. Asking a question already addressed in the OP will result in moderation action. Also, please put some effort into your questions. | ||
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AustinCM
Canada275 Posts
Also tell me how this sounds to you, I don't take any gas and I drone hard and take a fast 3rd. At around 5 minutes I take all 4 gases and get lair asap then speed then ovy speed when it finishes so i have ovy speed at like 7:30, I scout for a 6 gate and make speed roaches if i need to that are probably 1/1 and i am trying to saturate my 3rd. just tell me how that sounds for a reaction to ffe i mean ffe | ||
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xXPrOmAsTeRzErGXxMLG
Brazil7 Posts
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xXPrOmAsTeRzErGXxMLG
Brazil7 Posts
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Geniuszerg
Canada454 Posts
a good timing i like against FFE or 1gate FE is a ~40-45 drone, speed roach timing, it usually hits before collosus tech, and if they go air, they wont have enough units to defend the ground, and you can usually just kill them, however, if they transition into quick 5-6 gate you might have some trouble depending when you move out | ||
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Soluhwin
United States1287 Posts
On July 25 2011 13:39 xXPrOmAsTeRzErGXxMLG wrote: --Nuked-- I'd have to disagree, there is no guaranteed safe way to punish these expansions, you're boiling the matchup down to a coin-flip. It is much better to take advantage of the delayed pressure by cutting corners in your 'safe' play so that you can have more of something when normally you could not afford to do this. This can be things such as upgrades, drones, an earlier third, faster tech. Also, no one will take your advise seriously or really even care about your posts if you act like this because you come across as being...bad. Like not a "oh he isn't master's yet" bad, more of a "forever bronze" bad. I'd need to see a replay of this ling push you're suggesting before I'd tell someone that it isn't actually a dumb idea, because as of now, it's a dumb idea. On July 25 2011 13:42 Geniuszerg wrote: ^you sure like caps a lot a good timing i like against FFE or 1gate FE is a ~40-45 drone, speed roach timing, it usually hits before collosus tech, and if they go air, they wont have enough units to defend the ground, and you can usually just kill them, however, if they transition into quick 5-6 gate you might have some trouble depending when you move out This is a much better response to an expand build because it takes into consideration your opponent's tech timing. As for the suggested roach push in question, I'd just like to ad that having roach speed and burrow can really be what mends the fragility against this kind of gateway push. Getting lair tech and the additional gases for these upgrades will also allow you to more easily transition into drop tech, which is how to properly punish a player relying too much on their wall, cannons or "I'll kill the roaches eventually". E.g.: colossus/void ray. | ||
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soccercasanova
Argentina21 Posts
Hey guys, This is my first post and I hope you can give me a simple answer as i think, it may be a simple question. If not, then I am sorry, I just can't start my own post yet. Silver league, i still consider myself noob See the attached replay, I win this replay vs a terran (ZvT) and I am using a Spanishiwa style strategy. Nothing I do is perfect, or even close, but I am still getting down the core parts (scouting, early build timers, etc) Basically, if i had been playing against a different opponent with a little more skill I probably would have lost. This was probably the best game I have had, ever, in terms of all around performance, but I think that has a lot to do with my opponent. I tried to scout earlier, but didnt work, but I tried. I expanded succesfully and quickly. I fended off a weak scout. I saw the type of force he was trying to mass (MM) so i quickly went banelin and burrow so i could baneling mine kill the bulk of their force, which worked. Basically, I can't figure out how to spend minerals fast enough. Should I just build more and more hatcheries? I find teching to be gas exhaustive, perhaps hatcheries so i can build extractor bases? then if i run short on minerals move my mains force there? I dunno. Thanks for the simple help. Replay | ||
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zergmasterREDUX
6 Posts
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zergmasterREDUX
6 Posts
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MrBitter
United States2940 Posts
On July 25 2011 14:32 soccercasanova wrote: Posting here too, I posted in the Simple Answers one, but I think they may have been the wrong place... Hey guys, This is my first post and I hope you can give me a simple answer as i think, it may be a simple question. If not, then I am sorry, I just can't start my own post yet. Silver league, i still consider myself noob See the attached replay, I win this replay vs a terran (ZvT) and I am using a Spanishiwa style strategy. Nothing I do is perfect, or even close, but I am still getting down the core parts (scouting, early build timers, etc) Basically, if i had been playing against a different opponent with a little more skill I probably would have lost. This was probably the best game I have had, ever, in terms of all around performance, but I think that has a lot to do with my opponent. I tried to scout earlier, but didnt work, but I tried. I expanded succesfully and quickly. I fended off a weak scout. I saw the type of force he was trying to mass (MM) so i quickly went banelin and burrow so i could baneling mine kill the bulk of their force, which worked. Basically, I can't figure out how to spend minerals fast enough. Should I just build more and more hatcheries? I find teching to be gas exhaustive, perhaps hatcheries so i can build extractor bases? then if i run short on minerals move my mains force there? I dunno. Thanks for the simple help. Replay Developing your macro can be one of the toughest things to do for newer Zerg players. If you have perfect injects, and keep your larva count low, you should be wanting to maintain about 1.5 hatcheries per mining base. In other words, you'll be able to sustain 3 hatcheries worth of production when mining off of 2 bases. If your macro isn't perfect, though, there's nothing wrong with adding more hatcheries as a sort of bandage-fix to the imperfect macro problem. I usually suggest to newer players that they build a new hatchery every time they see their minerals climb up over 1k. This may mean that you have 5 hatcheries on 2 bases, but, eventually, the natural larva production of those macro hatcheries will start offsetting your imperfect injections, and you'll find your money falling quite quickly as you burn off your excess larva. Another nice thing about a macro hatch is that it allows you to dump your extra queen energy somewhere... On July 25 2011 08:52 AustinCM wrote: does anyone have good timings against a forge fast expand? Also tell me how this sounds to you, I don't take any gas and I drone hard and take a fast 3rd. At around 5 minutes I take all 4 gases and get lair asap then speed then ovy speed when it finishes so i have ovy speed at like 7:30, I scout for a 6 gate and make speed roaches if i need to that are probably 1/1 and i am trying to saturate my 3rd. just tell me how that sounds for a reaction to ffe i mean ffe Around 7:30 is when you want to start sacrificing overlords against forge expand builds. Think less in terms of time, and more in terms of supply, though. Against forge expand, you should be able to safely drone to 60 supply, only producing drones, queens, and 1-2 sets of lings for map vision. Protoss just can't really apply any pressure before that. | ||
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SCvanTango
Switzerland64 Posts
On July 25 2011 14:32 soccercasanova wrote: Posting here too, I posted in the Simple Answers one, but I think they may have been the wrong place... Hey guys, This is my first post and I hope you can give me a simple answer as i think, it may be a simple question. If not, then I am sorry, I just can't start my own post yet. Silver league, i still consider myself noob See the attached replay, I win this replay vs a terran (ZvT) and I am using a Spanishiwa style strategy. Nothing I do is perfect, or even close, but I am still getting down the core parts (scouting, early build timers, etc) Basically, if i had been playing against a different opponent with a little more skill I probably would have lost. This was probably the best game I have had, ever, in terms of all around performance, but I think that has a lot to do with my opponent. I tried to scout earlier, but didnt work, but I tried. I expanded succesfully and quickly. I fended off a weak scout. I saw the type of force he was trying to mass (MM) so i quickly went banelin and burrow so i could baneling mine kill the bulk of their force, which worked. Basically, I can't figure out how to spend minerals fast enough. Should I just build more and more hatcheries? I find teching to be gas exhaustive, perhaps hatcheries so i can build extractor bases? then if i run short on minerals move my mains force there? I dunno. Thanks for the simple help. Replay As MrBitter said, nothing wrong (or depending on your unitcomp, everything right) with macrohatches at some point, but I still feel even at silver level, you should get the injects down fine at least in the first minutes of a game (say until about 7-8 min, until then there shouldnt be a lot happening to distract u from it) Also in your replay, u get supplylocked very early and for a long time, which makes u bank about 1k mins rly early. and at some points even though u have like 15 larvae at ur 2 hatches u dont morph then into anything. also yeah about the gas, as zerg, you really need at least a third base relatively quickly be it only for the gas (idealy also for mins etc. but well one thing at a time I guess ^^) because zerg relies heavily on a good gasincome to be able to spend their minerals anyway, so when u have a low gasincome ur mins will naturally skyrocket too (unless u have like 2 or 3 macrohatches to pump zerglings or so) and just as a general note, when your in the rly lower leagues and u know/feel your opener isnt that good, just practice it a little (say about an hour mabye) against a very easy AI, to get the feel for it and when to add what, so its goes smoothly at least in the first 7-8 minutes of a game Not doing a good opener rly is only aobut practice and not about what league ur in imo. | ||
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Kornholi0
Canada634 Posts
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thane
United States407 Posts
On July 25 2011 19:20 Kornholi0 wrote: Should zerg take their 3rd or lair first in a ZvZ. Specifically should I be looking for saturation at natural or should I start it as soon as their attack ends? Taking a third in ZvZ can be very risky but it can be done. In general if/when I take a third I just get the gas and then transfer drones from my main when it starts to dry up. Saturation of the natural is as far as I go and then I build up for an attack. My zvz strat is not great I play very defensive until I get about 6 infesters. | ||
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michaelhasanalias
Korea (South)1231 Posts
1) ZvT: How much will a gas steal delay both a 2-rax into air (viking/banshee heavy) or 2-port banshee? What time can I expect 2port with and without a gas steal? 2) ZvT: I seem to be hit or miss with 2-drone rush for worker harass. How do you feel about the 2-drone rush, and should I bother getting good at it, or at what level does this 2-drone rush/harass become generally ineffective? 3) ZvZ: Against 1-base roach, how far can/should I drone after my FE to guarantee an advantage as long as he's on one base? How many drones is too many on 1-base to be safe against roach all-in? 4) ZvZ: Against roach play, I ran into a situation where I went 2-base muta against a later 2-base into heavy roach. Knowing the roach attack would hit before my mutas were ready, I put some lings outside his base to surround the roaches into my spines, but further, how many spines should I have to deal with this roach army? Or, what ratio of spines + speedlings should I be looking at? 5) ZvZ: I really like the idea of overseer contaminate harass. That said, I'm pretty bad at it, and would love any advice on how to better contaminate. When is it (in)efficient to do so? Am I obligated to get overlord speed when doing this? Or just how much damage will I take on a per-contaminate basis against a queen? Is it ever worth double contamination on a single hatchery, or multiple overseers in general? Aside from getting lair tech and just going for contaminate whenever I can, I feel like I'm just doing it because it feels like a good idea, rather than having the knowledge of how much damage I'm really dealing. 6) ZvP: Against a sentry-heavy 3-gate composition, how can I efficiently force sentry forcefields? Is it cost efficient to trade lings for this, or only if I can snipe the actual sentries? 7) ZvP: Under what circumstances is hatch-first not auto-lose to forge-first natural-cannon play? I've seen a lot of people (blaze555555 being one) who recommend going hatch first in ZvP in most circumstances, and I don't know whether it's a skill gap for me, but I remember reading things about how forge first is just a build order counter to hatch first. Thanks for any and all input. | ||
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GenesisX
Canada4267 Posts
On July 25 2011 00:39 shtdisturbance wrote: Can someone help me find some really high level zvp replays, not vods but replays. As recent as the replays can be would be great, thanks. This site always has high level replays and is constantly being updated. | ||
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GenesisX
Canada4267 Posts
On July 25 2011 22:30 michaelhasanalias wrote: Going to try and aggressively get back into 1v1 in the new season. I was only a low-mid master player before in 1v1, and haven't played in 4 months, and feel I simply don't have the answer to a number of somewhat silly questions: 1) ZvT: How much will a gas steal delay both a 2-rax into air (viking/banshee heavy) or 2-port banshee? What time can I expect 2port with and without a gas steal? 2) ZvT: I seem to be hit or miss with 2-drone rush for worker harass. How do you feel about the 2-drone rush, and should I bother getting good at it, or at what level does this 2-drone rush/harass become generally ineffective? 3) ZvZ: Against 1-base roach, how far can/should I drone after my FE to guarantee an advantage as long as he's on one base? How many drones is too many on 1-base to be safe against roach all-in? 4) ZvZ: Against roach play, I ran into a situation where I went 2-base muta against a later 2-base into heavy roach. Knowing the roach attack would hit before my mutas were ready, I put some lings outside his base to surround the roaches into my spines, but further, how many spines should I have to deal with this roach army? Or, what ratio of spines + speedlings should I be looking at? 5) ZvZ: I really like the idea of overseer contaminate harass. That said, I'm pretty bad at it, and would love any advice on how to better contaminate. When is it (in)efficient to do so? Am I obligated to get overlord speed when doing this? Or just how much damage will I take on a per-contaminate basis against a queen? Is it ever worth double contamination on a single hatchery, or multiple overseers in general? Aside from getting lair tech and just going for contaminate whenever I can, I feel like I'm just doing it because it feels like a good idea, rather than having the knowledge of how much damage I'm really dealing. 6) ZvP: Against a sentry-heavy 3-gate composition, how can I efficiently force sentry forcefields? Is it cost efficient to trade lings for this, or only if I can snipe the actual sentries? 7) ZvP: Under what circumstances is hatch-first not auto-lose to forge-first natural-cannon play? I've seen a lot of people (blaze555555 being one) who recommend going hatch first in ZvP in most circumstances, and I don't know whether it's a skill gap for me, but I remember reading things about how forge first is just a build order counter to hatch first. Thanks for any and all input. 1) Terrans rarely continue with a 2 port build if they see a gas steal just because their build will be heavily delayed. However, it is still a possibility. I'm not sure of the exact timings, but its very rare that you will see a 2 port build off a gas steal. If you are afraid of 2 port builds, gas steal. Its super effective. 2) Its usually done with 4 isn't it? I've seen CatZ do this a lot, and I think it isn't that worth it. Sure, you may delay the enemy barracks (and orbital) and kill 1-2 SCVs, but you lose the mining time for the drones, which is a lot since you have to walk to and from the enemy base. I wouldn't try it unless you are sure you can kill many workers (3+) or delay your opponent's tech by more than 20+ seconds. 3) As long as you have more drones than the opponent, you're in a good position. Actually, it won't matter if you have a little bit less, your expansion will push you into a lead with the extra larvae / mineral patches as long as you hold off the all in. I think you should have at least 20 drones to hold off an all in (full mineral saturation). This way you can make as many roaches as your opponent or enough lings to counter and win in a base race situation. 4) With a 2 base muta play, you should be ready for a massive counter attack. The tech and resources dumped into muta tech is slightly all in IMO, since mutas start to lose their effectiveness once infestors are in play. Once an opponent sees mutas, he will throw his entire army at your base if he can't defend it at home. Otherwise, he will hang back. Either way, you should have a huge wall of spines because of the excess minerals you will have. On more open maps, lings are preferred because you can counter and using spines are harder to defend against roaches on these maps. On tighter maps, 7-8 spines should be enough against any type of roach force. Besides, you can use these spines as a buffer in the mid game, since late game ZvZ is remaxing wars. In your case, you should have hella spined up, then dumped mutas and bum rushed his base. You would have been able to hold his attack and do significant if not game winning damage to him because he invested so heavily into roaches. 5) Contaminating is always efficient if you don't lose your overseer, and overlord speed is always a good upgrade to have because you need to spread overlords in ZvZ. Unless you are delaying an upgrade, I see no more need for 2 overseers (1 for main hatch and 1 for natural hatch). Contaminating is generally used for delaying his production, so always try to chain contaminate his hatches when doing a timing attack, or after a large encounter. Another good trick is to contaminate his infestation pit. Most zergs will start building their infestors once their pathogen gland upgrade is at 30/80 so their infestor energy will line up with the infestors spawn. Contaminating it will screw up their plan majorly. Getting hella overseers is very situational, but can be effective. 6) Depending on how aggressive you will be, it will determine how you want to force force fields. You don't want to waste a bunch of lings to force force fields, then let them regain their energy. Usually, I would only suicide if I can kill at least one sentry, but if you are going to timing attack after forcing force fields, I would recommend suiciding lings to sentry energy. Again, very situational. 7) Good protosses will always know how to punish a hatch first. I try not to hatch first as much now because it is honestly so risky. If you do want to hatch first against protoss, I would suggest doing it on maps that are not very easily cannoned. You will need to pull AT LEAST 3 drones if you scout a forge first and nothing else going down (1 to patrol ramp, 1 to follow probe, 1 to patrol vulnerable spot). On maps like Metalopolis, protosses can not only block your ramp, but also box themselves in behind your mineral line. There are very few maps that have a loose mineral line, and these are the only maps that I hatch first on. I think I only hatch first on XNC now just because all the other maps are so tight / protosses have many ways of punishing on other maps. Hatch first does help your economy, but it is hella weak against forge first. Gas/pool or pool/gas or pool/hatch is much safer and is what I recommend. EDIT: double post sorry!  | ||
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soccercasanova
Argentina21 Posts
I usually get my injects at the beginning pretty well. i guess i will try adding a third base earlier, and maybe a macrohatch too. THANKS :-D | ||
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ccesssu
United States19 Posts
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michaelhasanalias
Korea (South)1231 Posts
On July 25 2011 22:53 GenesisX wrote: Another good trick is to contaminate his infestation pit. Most zergs will start building their infestors once their pathogen gland upgrade is at 30/80 so their infestor energy will line up with the infestors spawn. Contaminating it will screw up their plan majorly Thanks for all the quality advice. This quoted part is a pretty awesome idea, thanks. I'll be sure to use this in the future if I see an infestation pit. | ||
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galtdunn
United States977 Posts
On July 26 2011 00:54 ccesssu wrote: Should I be hotkeying all my tech structures for quick upgrade access? And if so, all techs to one key and tab through them, or each different structure to a diff key? The following answer is all just my opinion (so don't flame me): + Show Spoiler + Well having a hotkey for evos, roach warren, spire, etc is a lot of seperate hotkeys to have. I don't think having tech on hotkeys is a good use of them unless you're specifically waiting for one to finish (like ling speed or roach speed). The only exception I would say is unless it actually helps you, like, you use it to get your next upgrades right when the first one finishes. | ||
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MrBitter
United States2940 Posts
On July 26 2011 00:54 ccesssu wrote: Should I be hotkeying all my tech structures for quick upgrade access? And if so, all techs to one key and tab through them, or each different structure to a diff key? Lots of top players will hotkey their ebays, evos, forges, etc. not solely so that they can quickly tap two hotkeys to start an upgrade, but also so that they can easily monitor the progress of those upgrades. There are a lot of cool timing windows that exist that you'll want to hit as soon as +1 or +2 finishes, and being able to easily tap a key to check on that is pretty helpful. That said, its not something that's necessary for playing at a top level, and for every player that does hotkey his tech structures, there are probably five that don't. | ||
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