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Make sure you read the OP before asking a question. Asking a question already addressed in the OP will result in moderation action. Also, please put some effort into your questions. | ||
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MrBitter
United States2940 Posts
On July 18 2011 11:17 xmikeyy17x wrote: i'm still in silver, won't hurt to change my race, it's just build orders and meta game i have to work on now. No. It's 100% mechanics. | ||
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sick_transit
United States195 Posts
On July 18 2011 04:37 xmikeyy17x wrote: whats the typical zerg opening that most pros do these days? I'm originally play protoss and i want to start playing some zerg (Because it's so fun) i'm in the silver league so i can get away off racing sometimes, heh. VileHawk posted a long, detailed answer to this very question a couple of weeks ago in this very thread. Just get the whole post in your browser window and word-search "hawk." | ||
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OzkanTheFlip
United States246 Posts
*edit* before broodlords plz | ||
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thane
United States407 Posts
On July 18 2011 14:42 OzkanTheFlip wrote: Can some1 give a unit composition and quick micro explanation when facing a terran going mech (helion thor tank)? *edit* before broodlords plz Upgraded roaches and neural parasite infestors thats pretty much it. Maybe a few lings to screw with the tank AI. | ||
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Requizen
United States33802 Posts
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thane
United States407 Posts
On July 19 2011 04:07 Requizen wrote: I know Infestors are stupidly strong when they're controlled well. What's the best way to get better at using them, other than just building them every game? Are there micro UMS games like the Marine split one? I will occasionally que for an FFA and just make infestors the entire game. Nothing else. Its not the same but its fun though :D | ||
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Antimatterz
United States1010 Posts
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BlasiuS
United States2405 Posts
On July 18 2011 14:42 OzkanTheFlip wrote: Can some1 give a unit composition and quick micro explanation when facing a terran going mech (helion thor tank)? *edit* before broodlords plz Ideally you want infestors with NP, and have at least 1 per thor, and make sure all of them have enough energy to NP. The rest of your army should be roaches with speed upgrade at the very least. If you have time, get burrow, tunnel claws, and +1 ranged. When you engage, put roaches in front of infestors to draw tank fire, and NP all thors as quickly as you can. Roaches should try and kill tanks as quickly as possible. Once tanks & hellions are dead, select all roaches AND all thors, and shift queue manual attack on all thors (you have to manually attack friendly units). | ||
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[F_]aths
Germany3947 Posts
Is is viable to use just one build per match-up in those league (gold) when I have the proper follow-ups, or must I practice different builds because the maps are so different? Or do I waste time in figuring out proper BOs while right drone timing is much more important? What about to go 14 Gas 14 Pool 21 Hatch versus Protoss any time? Can I get away with 15 Hatch 16 Pool versus Terran on any map? I don't try to outsmart my opponent, I want to be safe versus any shenanigans he could pull off. | ||
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infinitely
Canada89 Posts
On July 19 2011 07:16 [F_]aths wrote: I am looking for zerg builds I can use on any map because I think I rather should practice one build per match-up to be good at it instead of having a variety of build which I perform poorly. At least for the time being I try to improve execution over strategy range as I want to get to gold league in season 3. I need standard BOs which get me safe into macro mode. Is is viable to use just one build per match-up in those league (gold) when I have the proper follow-ups, or must I practice different builds because the maps are so different? Or do I waste time in figuring out proper BOs while right drone timing is much more important? What about to go 14 Gas 14 Pool 21 Hatch versus Protoss any time? Can I get away with 15 Hatch 16 Pool versus Terran on any map? I don't try to outsmart my opponent, I want to be safe versus any shenanigans he could pull off. Technically it is viable, although as you get higher into the leagues (plat->diamond etc) you'll want to be equally skilled at other builds as well, but for now one is fine. Now, usually you can get away with a 15 hatch style against terran, but if he does 2rax bunker rush you do you know how to defend? If not, you loose your expo and set the T miles ahead going into mid game. When I was in goldish level I used a standard 14gas 14 pool 21 hatch against all matchups. Against T I would recommend a slightly more economical 14p 16 hatch UNTIL you are confident in defending 2 rax bunker rushes. After that, 15 hatch 15 pool is the way to go. Protoss's have a bunch of different ways of pressuring an early expo, such as cannon rushes and others. Again, if you are confident holding off cannon rushes go ahead, but if you fail you will again be far behind going into mid game. It depends how much risk vs reward your willing to take. In gold, this isn't going to impact you too greatly. I would say again to use a 14g 14p style, it will take you safely into a expo and mid game and its easy to work with. | ||
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AustinCM
Canada275 Posts
thoughts? | ||
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MrBitter
United States2940 Posts
On July 19 2011 07:52 AustinCM wrote: so what is the best roachling timing against a 3g fe and a 1g fe? i have been doing a 14 pool 16 hatch 16 gas build where i drone to 21 get my warren at 5:10 and try to hit with 7-8 roaches at 7:15 with sling reinforcements. It's 4 supply for the queens, 21 for the drones 16 for the roaches and i make overlords to give me 52 supply and make 11 sets of ling reinforcements and behind the attack i make 2 ovys and then drone. thoughts? Not sure I understand the question... Are you asking for the best way to all-in? If I'm going to apply heavy roach/sling pressure I like to get 35 drones 8 roaches and the rest pure speedling. It sounds like what you're doing comes a little bit sooner, but its going to be sooo much more all-in. | ||
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MrBitter
United States2940 Posts
On July 19 2011 07:16 [F_]aths wrote: I am looking for zerg builds I can use on any map because I think I rather should practice one build per match-up to be good at it instead of having a variety of build which I perform poorly. At least for the time being I try to improve execution over strategy range as I want to get to gold league in season 3. I need standard BOs which get me safe into macro mode. Is is viable to use just one build per match-up in those league (gold) when I have the proper follow-ups, or must I practice different builds because the maps are so different? Or do I waste time in figuring out proper BOs while right drone timing is much more important? What about to go 14 Gas 14 Pool 21 Hatch versus Protoss any time? Can I get away with 15 Hatch 16 Pool versus Terran on any map? I don't try to outsmart my opponent, I want to be safe versus any shenanigans he could pull off. This is how you should practice... Keep doing what you're doing. 14/14/21 is a solid ZvP BO. Just be aware of the necessary transitions against all of the standard toss openers: 3 gate expand, 1 gate expand, fast expand, and, of course, 1 base all-ins. 15 hatch 16 pool is going to be pushing it a little bit in close positions, but on any real map, its a perfectly viable opening. | ||
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AustinCM
Canada275 Posts
On July 19 2011 11:43 MrBitter wrote: Not sure I understand the question... Are you asking for the best way to all-in? If I'm going to apply heavy roach/sling pressure I like to get 35 drones 8 roaches and the rest pure speedling. It sounds like what you're doing comes a little bit sooner, but its going to be sooo much more all-in. I'm wondering what the best Roach ling timing is, I have tried that 35 drone one....and imo it's pretty terrible. the roaches do nothing and 8 sentries have already had time to build up energy and also some stalkers are probably added in. I have seen IdrA and what not doing it, there are variants liek 21 drones 24 drones etc, i was just looking for a precise BO and what the best way to roachling timing is against a 3g fe. | ||
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MrBitter
United States2940 Posts
On July 19 2011 13:51 AustinCM wrote: I'm wondering what the best Roach ling timing is, I have tried that 35 drone one....and imo it's pretty terrible. the roaches do nothing and 8 sentries have already had time to build up energy and also some stalkers are probably added in. I have seen IdrA and what not doing it, there are variants liek 21 drones 24 drones etc, i was just looking for a precise BO and what the best way to roachling timing is against a 3g fe. Winning games with that all-in is kinda phasing out, dude. You'd be better served to just macro. If you want a concise BO, go download Idra's reps vs. MC at MLG Columbus. He does it three times in a row.... | ||
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AustinCM
Canada275 Posts
On July 19 2011 13:59 MrBitter wrote: Winning games with that all-in is kinda phasing out, dude. You'd be better served to just macro. If you want a concise BO, go download Idra's reps vs. MC at MLG Columbus. He does it three times in a row.... Btw, I have always wanted to talk to a pro  I'm a big fan and I love your 12 weeks with the pros!Anyways, the things IdrA did weren't really the timing I'm talking about. There was a timing he did against an ffe but that is just pure roach and totally different and the one time he did do the roachling timing mc did 1g stargate expo so that's why he lost there. This build is specifically for 3g fe or 1g fe. There are 2 variants I know of that are 21 drones and 24 drones, it hits at about 7:00 - 7:30 at the latest with 6-8 roaches and ling reinforcements. | ||
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AustinCM
Canada275 Posts
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Turbogangsta
Australia319 Posts
my problem is that when he uses a collosi and sentry heavy deathball i have alot of trouble engaging because he blocks my infestors with forcefield so i cant get good fungals and then kites my overlords. i havnt tried but i imagine once i get ultras out this wouldnt be a problem. so my question is how should i be engaging with these unit comps? | ||
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infinitely
Canada89 Posts
On July 19 2011 14:52 Turbogangsta wrote: Hi recently i have been using ling/bane/infestor with ovi speed and drop for midgame vs toss and i have been practicing enaging deathballs with my friend. my problem is that when he uses a collosi and sentry heavy deathball i have alot of trouble engaging because he blocks my infestors with forcefield so i cant get good fungals and then kites my overlords. i havnt tried but i imagine once i get ultras out this wouldnt be a problem. so my question is how should i be engaging with these unit comps? Best thing to do is not let him get the sentry + colo deathball in the first place. Do a roach/ling push after 2 base droning and kill the sentries (this is not supposed to beat the protoss, just kill as many sentries as possible), scout what tech he is going and reinforce to counter. For example, push and see colo tech starting/colo's out. Throw down a spire and get roaches or go ling/infestor since you've killed his sentries. I prefer the roach corrupter style, but ling infestor does well until very late game. Say he does succeed in creating his perfect deathball, and you haven't gotten ultras out yet. Use lings to sweep around from the back to hold the army in place, try to get fungals and use the overlord+banes. The problem is timing this attack is ridiculously hard even for pros, and if one part of your army fails its a fairly easy kill. You can even put infestors in overlords if the forcefields are too good, although don't put 4 in one overlord . Best thing to do is obviously get faster hive and broods, ultras are good at breaking forcefields but if the protoss is going colo already he can easily switch into immortals unless you win after the first large engagement. | ||
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MrBitter
United States2940 Posts
On July 19 2011 14:06 AustinCM wrote: Also while you're here, which pro do you talk with the most about speedling expand in ZvZ? I have been having some trouble with speedling expand like when to get drones or when to tech to roaches/blings. This is the most well explained ZvZ stuff I think I've ever covered: ZvZ with Dimaga: http://blip.tv/learn-from-the-pros-with-mr-b/12-weeks-with-the-pros-dimaga-s-very-solid-macro-based-zvz-4871770 | ||
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