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On July 17 2011 09:28 Chinesewonder wrote:Show nested quote +On July 17 2011 06:33 thane wrote:On July 17 2011 00:42 Chinesewonder wrote:
I have a question about ling infestor in ZvP. It works great, however my opponents tend to go archon zealot, sometimes blindly or in response to my ling infestor. I hear people saying well you can't just blindly go ling infestor if you scout your opponent going zealot archon high templar. The thing is by the time I scout archon zealot high templar, I too am already committed to ling infestor and I cant really switch my tech. So I usually just tech to brood lords and wait it out or harass which I have found to be quite good b/c zealots or so damn slow. I was just wondering how you guys who go ling infestor deal with archon zealot high templar. I dont go that comp because I dont think its very strong but my honesty opinion is you need to scout earlier and move often. Think about this logically, Archons and templar take a LOOONG time to get a reasonable amount of them because of the gas costs. The comp you are going is going to always get eaten up by Archon zealot HT unless you make banelings imo and you should have lots of extra gas to make the banes. Here is another option find a basic protoss opener and see how long it takes to just get to templar archives. Then, you know when to scout to see if they are going that route but I honestly think there is no way to not have roaches in ZvP especially against that comp which isnt very moblie because HT are 1.8 and Archons are 2.8 while roaches are 3 after Glial and 2.25 before. You can just pull them in many directions at once. What unit composition do you suggest? Im really sick of roach, hydra, corruptor and I've tried roach infestor and I just get rofl stomped by FF and it doesn't even matter how many fungals I lay down. I've thought about it and I guess against the zealot, ht, archon composition you just have to abuse the immobility of the protoss and try to trade early on to give you time to tech to broods.
How many bases are you letting him take where he can get sentries, templar, archons and zealots? That seems like a large amount of gas unless he just keeps his 5 or 6 from the start of the game.
My "general" comp is 2 base Roach, corrupter, bling with drops. If you don't see collosus then you just don't need the corruptors(once again scouting) and I would use more drops because they wont have gas to warp in stalkers. Another important thing to try to have is burrow and tunneling claws because you can always run away and heal up. Then later as you said work your way to broods. Note you need to max and attack by 16 minutes so he cant move out and you can dump your army and remax before he can.
I have also won with very aggressive nydus/hydra/roach but its very dependent on the building positioning they have as well as the army position they have. Basically the game I won with this comp the guy walled himself out of a huge corner of his base with ALL of his gateways. So I got to kill them for free then I made him choose between saving what was left of his tech in his main and saving his brand new third base :D.
Last option is Mutas because he only has the archons that can do constant damage.For what its worth I think the first plan is always viable and once you get rid of the sentries you dont need to load the blings up anymore just get speed and run them at him or switch to hydras. But be mindful of not exploding the blings on the archons because its a huge waste.
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On July 17 2011 09:45 thane wrote:Show nested quote +On July 17 2011 09:28 Chinesewonder wrote:On July 17 2011 06:33 thane wrote:On July 17 2011 00:42 Chinesewonder wrote:
I have a question about ling infestor in ZvP. It works great, however my opponents tend to go archon zealot, sometimes blindly or in response to my ling infestor. I hear people saying well you can't just blindly go ling infestor if you scout your opponent going zealot archon high templar. The thing is by the time I scout archon zealot high templar, I too am already committed to ling infestor and I cant really switch my tech. So I usually just tech to brood lords and wait it out or harass which I have found to be quite good b/c zealots or so damn slow. I was just wondering how you guys who go ling infestor deal with archon zealot high templar. I dont go that comp because I dont think its very strong but my honesty opinion is you need to scout earlier and move often. Think about this logically, Archons and templar take a LOOONG time to get a reasonable amount of them because of the gas costs. The comp you are going is going to always get eaten up by Archon zealot HT unless you make banelings imo and you should have lots of extra gas to make the banes. Here is another option find a basic protoss opener and see how long it takes to just get to templar archives. Then, you know when to scout to see if they are going that route but I honestly think there is no way to not have roaches in ZvP especially against that comp which isnt very moblie because HT are 1.8 and Archons are 2.8 while roaches are 3 after Glial and 2.25 before. You can just pull them in many directions at once. What unit composition do you suggest? Im really sick of roach, hydra, corruptor and I've tried roach infestor and I just get rofl stomped by FF and it doesn't even matter how many fungals I lay down. I've thought about it and I guess against the zealot, ht, archon composition you just have to abuse the immobility of the protoss and try to trade early on to give you time to tech to broods. How many bases are you letting him take where he can get sentries, templar, archons and zealots? That seems like a large amount of gas unless he just keeps his 5 or 6 from the start of the game. My "general" comp is 2 base Roach, corrupter, bling with drops. If you don't see collosus then you just don't need the corruptors(once again scouting) and I would use more drops because they wont have gas to warp in stalkers. Another important thing to try to have is burrow and tunneling claws because you can always run away and heal up. Then later as you said work your way to broods. Note you need to max and attack by 16 minutes so he cant move out and you can dump your army and remax before he can. I have also won with very aggressive nydus/hydra/roach but its very dependent on the building positioning they have as well as the army position they have. Basically the game I won with this comp the guy walled himself out of a huge corner of his base with ALL of his gateways. So I got to kill them for free then I made him choose between saving what was left of his tech in his main and saving his brand new third base :D. Last option is Mutas because he only has the archons that can do constant damage.For what its worth I think the first plan is always viable and once you get rid of the sentries you dont need to load the blings up anymore just get speed and run them at him or switch to hydras. But be mindful of not exploding the blings on the archons because its a huge waste.
I usually attack before the archon/zealot/ht ball gets too big, so I haven't really encountered a full out death ball composed of archons, zealots, and HT. I'm wondering if this is the way to go? Then remax but with higher tech? I should mention that I do mix in baneling drops when I can, so perhaps this could by me time to tech to broods. I have tried many compositions, roach, baneling drop, corruptor as well. I used to win 90% of my ZvP with baneling drops but I feel that alot of protoss are getting alot better at how to deal with baneling drops, and if your baneling drops don't work out so hot, then your really vulnerable since baneling drops take a while to set up. For example how do you deal with sentries which deny your roaches advance and stalkers which kite the overlords.
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hey im a zerg that favors early mid game and now since the ladders locked i have been practicing with my friend thats diamond but he just meta games me and i seem to always die to overproducing drones, if their a way to quickly count your drones? i normally just always make drones with my units unless i see a push coming but i am wondering if their is a way to tell and just immediately stop production, thanx.
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On July 17 2011 09:58 Chinesewonder wrote:Show nested quote +On July 17 2011 09:45 thane wrote:On July 17 2011 09:28 Chinesewonder wrote:On July 17 2011 06:33 thane wrote:On July 17 2011 00:42 Chinesewonder wrote:
I have a question about ling infestor in ZvP. It works great, however my opponents tend to go archon zealot, sometimes blindly or in response to my ling infestor. I hear people saying well you can't just blindly go ling infestor if you scout your opponent going zealot archon high templar. The thing is by the time I scout archon zealot high templar, I too am already committed to ling infestor and I cant really switch my tech. So I usually just tech to brood lords and wait it out or harass which I have found to be quite good b/c zealots or so damn slow. I was just wondering how you guys who go ling infestor deal with archon zealot high templar. I dont go that comp because I dont think its very strong but my honesty opinion is you need to scout earlier and move often. Think about this logically, Archons and templar take a LOOONG time to get a reasonable amount of them because of the gas costs. The comp you are going is going to always get eaten up by Archon zealot HT unless you make banelings imo and you should have lots of extra gas to make the banes. Here is another option find a basic protoss opener and see how long it takes to just get to templar archives. Then, you know when to scout to see if they are going that route but I honestly think there is no way to not have roaches in ZvP especially against that comp which isnt very moblie because HT are 1.8 and Archons are 2.8 while roaches are 3 after Glial and 2.25 before. You can just pull them in many directions at once. What unit composition do you suggest? Im really sick of roach, hydra, corruptor and I've tried roach infestor and I just get rofl stomped by FF and it doesn't even matter how many fungals I lay down. I've thought about it and I guess against the zealot, ht, archon composition you just have to abuse the immobility of the protoss and try to trade early on to give you time to tech to broods. How many bases are you letting him take where he can get sentries, templar, archons and zealots? That seems like a large amount of gas unless he just keeps his 5 or 6 from the start of the game. My "general" comp is 2 base Roach, corrupter, bling with drops. If you don't see collosus then you just don't need the corruptors(once again scouting) and I would use more drops because they wont have gas to warp in stalkers. Another important thing to try to have is burrow and tunneling claws because you can always run away and heal up. Then later as you said work your way to broods. Note you need to max and attack by 16 minutes so he cant move out and you can dump your army and remax before he can. I have also won with very aggressive nydus/hydra/roach but its very dependent on the building positioning they have as well as the army position they have. Basically the game I won with this comp the guy walled himself out of a huge corner of his base with ALL of his gateways. So I got to kill them for free then I made him choose between saving what was left of his tech in his main and saving his brand new third base :D. Last option is Mutas because he only has the archons that can do constant damage.For what its worth I think the first plan is always viable and once you get rid of the sentries you dont need to load the blings up anymore just get speed and run them at him or switch to hydras. But be mindful of not exploding the blings on the archons because its a huge waste. I usually attack before the archon/zealot/ht ball gets too big, so I haven't really encountered a full out death ball composed of archons, zealots, and HT. I'm wondering if this is the way to go? Then remax but with higher tech? I should mention that I do mix in baneling drops when I can, so perhaps this could by me time to tech to broods. I have tried many compositions, roach, baneling drop, corruptor as well. I used to win 90% of my ZvP with baneling drops but I feel that alot of protoss are getting alot better at how to deal with baneling drops, and if your baneling drops don't work out so hot, then your really vulnerable since baneling drops take a while to set up. For example how do you deal with sentries which deny your roaches advance and stalkers which kite the overlords.
1.) You need to attack as close to his natural as possible so he cant spread out.
2.) Baneling speed can help with him trying to kite.
3.) I know some GM players on EU that do this against other GM level protoss with no trouble so if people are kiting like that it shouldnt matter.
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On July 17 2011 11:31 Deluxeiceman wrote:
hey im a zerg that favors early mid game and now since the ladders locked i have been practicing with my friend thats diamond but he just meta games me and i seem to always die to overproducing drones, if their a way to quickly count your drones? i normally just always make drones with my units unless i see a push coming but i am wondering if their is a way to tell and just immediately stop production, thanx.
Just ctrl+click a drone and you'll select all drones on the screen, you should have around one full selection screen (24) per base.
To balance drones/army production is one of the primary skills of zerg play. You just need to get a feel for it and work out some droning triggers. E.g. If you see 2 rax with your first scout you can build x drones before building army, if you see 1 rax + 2 gas, you can produce x+y drones etc.
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On July 17 2011 11:31 Deluxeiceman wrote:
hey im a zerg that favors early mid game and now since the ladders locked i have been practicing with my friend thats diamond but he just meta games me and i seem to always die to overproducing drones, if their a way to quickly count your drones? i normally just always make drones with my units unless i see a push coming but i am wondering if their is a way to tell and just immediately stop production, thanx.
You can just click and drag over your minerals but other than that there is no like in game unit counter. Another option is to hold down CTRL and select 1 drone at the base this will select them all at that base then just subtract for the gas(2 per gas I think).
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hi, in ZvP i love to open slings+1 melee and go to bane drop play
but i feel more and more toss now go charge+HT+archon
how i have to react?
do i have to switch to mass roach? i am super commited to melee upg
or i have to rush to ultra?
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On July 17 2011 23:59 macaronij wrote:
hi, in ZvP i love to open slings+1 melee and go to bane drop play
but i feel more and more toss now go charge+HT+archon
how i have to react?
do i have to switch to mass roach? i am super commited to melee upg
or i have to rush to ultra?
As I was telling Chinesewonder you have a few options. You can exploit how slow his units are with Roach drops, nydus or mutas. You can go roach with speed blings or bling drops. I didn't think about ultras but I think that is a good option that could work great but I have never tried it. The melee upgrades don't go completely to waste if you use bling drops because once you get +2 they kill probes in 1 hit. Harrassment is going to work great against this comp but don't go crazy with it. The drops should still work so long as you hit the zealots and the HT but stay away from the archons. You don't have to outright kill the zealots but knocking the shield down and maybe some of their HP helps your roaches, lings, or ultas a large amount.
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On July 17 2011 12:46 thane wrote:Show nested quote +On July 17 2011 09:58 Chinesewonder wrote:On July 17 2011 09:45 thane wrote:On July 17 2011 09:28 Chinesewonder wrote:On July 17 2011 06:33 thane wrote:On July 17 2011 00:42 Chinesewonder wrote:
I have a question about ling infestor in ZvP. It works great, however my opponents tend to go archon zealot, sometimes blindly or in response to my ling infestor. I hear people saying well you can't just blindly go ling infestor if you scout your opponent going zealot archon high templar. The thing is by the time I scout archon zealot high templar, I too am already committed to ling infestor and I cant really switch my tech. So I usually just tech to brood lords and wait it out or harass which I have found to be quite good b/c zealots or so damn slow. I was just wondering how you guys who go ling infestor deal with archon zealot high templar. I dont go that comp because I dont think its very strong but my honesty opinion is you need to scout earlier and move often. Think about this logically, Archons and templar take a LOOONG time to get a reasonable amount of them because of the gas costs. The comp you are going is going to always get eaten up by Archon zealot HT unless you make banelings imo and you should have lots of extra gas to make the banes. Here is another option find a basic protoss opener and see how long it takes to just get to templar archives. Then, you know when to scout to see if they are going that route but I honestly think there is no way to not have roaches in ZvP especially against that comp which isnt very moblie because HT are 1.8 and Archons are 2.8 while roaches are 3 after Glial and 2.25 before. You can just pull them in many directions at once. What unit composition do you suggest? Im really sick of roach, hydra, corruptor and I've tried roach infestor and I just get rofl stomped by FF and it doesn't even matter how many fungals I lay down. I've thought about it and I guess against the zealot, ht, archon composition you just have to abuse the immobility of the protoss and try to trade early on to give you time to tech to broods. How many bases are you letting him take where he can get sentries, templar, archons and zealots? That seems like a large amount of gas unless he just keeps his 5 or 6 from the start of the game. My "general" comp is 2 base Roach, corrupter, bling with drops. If you don't see collosus then you just don't need the corruptors(once again scouting) and I would use more drops because they wont have gas to warp in stalkers. Another important thing to try to have is burrow and tunneling claws because you can always run away and heal up. Then later as you said work your way to broods. Note you need to max and attack by 16 minutes so he cant move out and you can dump your army and remax before he can. I have also won with very aggressive nydus/hydra/roach but its very dependent on the building positioning they have as well as the army position they have. Basically the game I won with this comp the guy walled himself out of a huge corner of his base with ALL of his gateways. So I got to kill them for free then I made him choose between saving what was left of his tech in his main and saving his brand new third base :D. Last option is Mutas because he only has the archons that can do constant damage.For what its worth I think the first plan is always viable and once you get rid of the sentries you dont need to load the blings up anymore just get speed and run them at him or switch to hydras. But be mindful of not exploding the blings on the archons because its a huge waste. I usually attack before the archon/zealot/ht ball gets too big, so I haven't really encountered a full out death ball composed of archons, zealots, and HT. I'm wondering if this is the way to go? Then remax but with higher tech? I should mention that I do mix in baneling drops when I can, so perhaps this could by me time to tech to broods. I have tried many compositions, roach, baneling drop, corruptor as well. I used to win 90% of my ZvP with baneling drops but I feel that alot of protoss are getting alot better at how to deal with baneling drops, and if your baneling drops don't work out so hot, then your really vulnerable since baneling drops take a while to set up. For example how do you deal with sentries which deny your roaches advance and stalkers which kite the overlords. 1.) You need to attack as close to his natural as possible so he cant spread out. 2.) Baneling speed can help with him trying to kite. 3.) I know some GM players on EU that do this against other GM level protoss with no trouble so if people are kiting like that it shouldnt matter.
You have any games that I could watch? Also do you mix in infestors later? I feel they are so good because you can't always engage at their base, so if you can hold them in place baneling drops are amazing. Also do you tech to BL in the end and get roach and corruptor support?
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What's the best unit comp/course of action against Terrans who open ~6 Helion for map control and transition into Marine/Tank/GHOST(!!!!)/Thor? Just saw some EU GM's do it and properly handled ghosts destroy Infestors and Broodlords. It was on big macro maps where Zerg had infinite bases and was outmacroing Terran hard but simply couldn't produce a unit comp that would trade even remotely efficiently against Terran's, and since it wasn't total mech it's not like Terran was any less mobile.
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On July 18 2011 01:50 Chinesewonder wrote:Show nested quote +On July 17 2011 12:46 thane wrote:On July 17 2011 09:58 Chinesewonder wrote:On July 17 2011 09:45 thane wrote:On July 17 2011 09:28 Chinesewonder wrote:On July 17 2011 06:33 thane wrote:On July 17 2011 00:42 Chinesewonder wrote:
I have a question about ling infestor in ZvP. It works great, however my opponents tend to go archon zealot, sometimes blindly or in response to my ling infestor. I hear people saying well you can't just blindly go ling infestor if you scout your opponent going zealot archon high templar. The thing is by the time I scout archon zealot high templar, I too am already committed to ling infestor and I cant really switch my tech. So I usually just tech to brood lords and wait it out or harass which I have found to be quite good b/c zealots or so damn slow. I was just wondering how you guys who go ling infestor deal with archon zealot high templar. I dont go that comp because I dont think its very strong but my honesty opinion is you need to scout earlier and move often. Think about this logically, Archons and templar take a LOOONG time to get a reasonable amount of them because of the gas costs. The comp you are going is going to always get eaten up by Archon zealot HT unless you make banelings imo and you should have lots of extra gas to make the banes. Here is another option find a basic protoss opener and see how long it takes to just get to templar archives. Then, you know when to scout to see if they are going that route but I honestly think there is no way to not have roaches in ZvP especially against that comp which isnt very moblie because HT are 1.8 and Archons are 2.8 while roaches are 3 after Glial and 2.25 before. You can just pull them in many directions at once. What unit composition do you suggest? Im really sick of roach, hydra, corruptor and I've tried roach infestor and I just get rofl stomped by FF and it doesn't even matter how many fungals I lay down. I've thought about it and I guess against the zealot, ht, archon composition you just have to abuse the immobility of the protoss and try to trade early on to give you time to tech to broods. How many bases are you letting him take where he can get sentries, templar, archons and zealots? That seems like a large amount of gas unless he just keeps his 5 or 6 from the start of the game. My "general" comp is 2 base Roach, corrupter, bling with drops. If you don't see collosus then you just don't need the corruptors(once again scouting) and I would use more drops because they wont have gas to warp in stalkers. Another important thing to try to have is burrow and tunneling claws because you can always run away and heal up. Then later as you said work your way to broods. Note you need to max and attack by 16 minutes so he cant move out and you can dump your army and remax before he can. I have also won with very aggressive nydus/hydra/roach but its very dependent on the building positioning they have as well as the army position they have. Basically the game I won with this comp the guy walled himself out of a huge corner of his base with ALL of his gateways. So I got to kill them for free then I made him choose between saving what was left of his tech in his main and saving his brand new third base :D. Last option is Mutas because he only has the archons that can do constant damage.For what its worth I think the first plan is always viable and once you get rid of the sentries you dont need to load the blings up anymore just get speed and run them at him or switch to hydras. But be mindful of not exploding the blings on the archons because its a huge waste. I usually attack before the archon/zealot/ht ball gets too big, so I haven't really encountered a full out death ball composed of archons, zealots, and HT. I'm wondering if this is the way to go? Then remax but with higher tech? I should mention that I do mix in baneling drops when I can, so perhaps this could by me time to tech to broods. I have tried many compositions, roach, baneling drop, corruptor as well. I used to win 90% of my ZvP with baneling drops but I feel that alot of protoss are getting alot better at how to deal with baneling drops, and if your baneling drops don't work out so hot, then your really vulnerable since baneling drops take a while to set up. For example how do you deal with sentries which deny your roaches advance and stalkers which kite the overlords. 1.) You need to attack as close to his natural as possible so he cant spread out. 2.) Baneling speed can help with him trying to kite. 3.) I know some GM players on EU that do this against other GM level protoss with no trouble so if people are kiting like that it shouldnt matter. You have any games that I could watch? Also do you mix in infestors later? I feel they are so good because you can't always engage at their base, so if you can hold them in place baneling drops are amazing. Also do you tech to BL in the end and get roach and corruptor support?
I been playing for 3 days about 15+ games a day and I have yet to see this comp so unfortunately I dont have any. I have run into it a bit but I just run my standard comp and maybe mix in a few hydras. I do have games of my standard comp though if thats what you wanted.
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ingenol : what abuot ultra / hydra / roach / infester / ling?
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whats the typical zerg opening that most pros do these days?
I'm originally play protoss and i want to start playing some zerg (Because it's so fun)
i'm in the silver league so i can get away off racing sometimes, heh.
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On July 18 2011 03:53 BestZergOnEast wrote:
ingenol : what abuot ultra / hydra / roach / infester / ling?
That's more or less what the Zerg was trying, minus the hydras. The ultras themselves were practically melting to the tanks, so I don't even think roach/hydra would be able to get within range before splatting. It seemed scary powerful, basically b/c it was like the typical late-game Terran composition you need broods to beat, except ghosts completely shut down the broods.
Fungal's range is 9 whereas EMP is 10, so if Terran is good infestors get shut down hard.
I dunno, perhaps the solution is that there is no solution and if Terran reaches this point you lose. It just seemed kind of silly because in these particular games Zerg had 7 bases to Terran's 4 but remax after remax simply couldn't beat him.
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On July 18 2011 04:37 xmikeyy17x wrote:
whats the typical zerg opening that most pros do these days?
I'm originally play protoss and i want to start playing some zerg (Because it's so fun)
i'm in the silver league so i can get away off racing sometimes, heh.
You have 14 gas 14 pool, 14 hatch, 15 hatch and those are about the only non cheese openings I can think of. You have to decide how you want to play do you want to be aggressive early or do you want to macro and get an econ advantage? Aggressive/safe is 14/14 and econ advantage is 14 or 15 hatch. Openings as zerg dont really determine much because the race is suppose to be flexable to max opponents.
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so i'm kinda deciding to stick with zerg, only in silver league.
so where to start?
all i know is how to use roaches, backspace to vomit at hatchery, and expo 
halp?!
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On July 18 2011 10:27 xmikeyy17x wrote:so i'm kinda deciding to stick with zerg, only in silver league. so where to start? all i know is how to use roaches, backspace to vomit at hatchery, and expo halp?!
Unless you want to play random I would always suggest playing one race only. Start playing games, watch some Day[9] dailies about zerg, and watch Mr. Bitters Series with the pros about how to play zerg. One last thing you could always take a lesson from a high level zerg some are only about $20-$30 USD per hour if your committed enough.
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i'm still in silver, won't hurt to change my race,
it's just build orders and meta game i have to work on now.
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On July 18 2011 11:17 xmikeyy17x wrote:
i'm still in silver, won't hurt to change my race,
it's just build orders and meta game i have to work on now.
There is no strict build order as zerg you have several slightly different ways to open but no true build order because zerg is reactionary."Meta game" in whatever way you mean to use it does not matter at any level below Masters in my opinion. I never said changing race was bad but in general I feel you should find the one you like and stick to it unless you want to play random.
I only 14/14 and 14 hatch because they are the safest 2 openings so I would recommend starting there and remember that a huge point in zerg play is queen injects.
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How do you defend a 2 gate/hotbid cannon rush? o.o
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EPT
