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Make sure you read the OP before asking a question. Asking a question already addressed in the OP will result in moderation action. Also, please put some effort into your questions. |
On July 14 2011 01:17 macaronij wrote:
Hi all, anyone know a good replay ZvT that shows how to hold multiples drops? It so scary....
Dongraegu vs sc man, there's so much zvt to learn in that series. It's on gomtv, lg championship.
Elaborating on the ffe response, if you scout fast air, you can delay your lair/gas by quite a bit, focusing on using spores/queens for defense and using the extra minerals on drones. Losiras deliberately to ffe into air was starting a lair at 9 minutes...
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I'm random/race picker, this question may have been asked before, if it has can you please link me to it? Anyway, what do Zergs do against a Terrans 2 rax expansion denial while getting an expo themselves? If they over commit then I'll just nydus their main, otherwise.. what do you do?
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United States2095 Posts
On July 14 2011 13:29 Rewdant wrote:
I'm random/race picker, this question may have been asked before, if it has can you please link me to it? Anyway, what do Zergs do against a Terrans 2 rax expansion denial while getting an expo themselves? If they over commit then I'll just nydus their main, otherwise.. what do you do?
You just can't let them deny your expansion. You lose if they do that. Pull drones, lots of drones! 
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Having trouble vs. Protoss, did a search and didn't find anything particularly helpful or credible:
How soon should I expand (to my 3rd) if I scout Nexus first or Forge FE? I'm having trouble holding off 5/6-gate timings and I think it's because I'm not taking my 3rd early enough. I usually don't have a problem with Stargate play because my creep spread is pretty good.
What is the general timing window for said 5/6-gate attack? It seems to come at different times and I'm never sure when to start preparing for it with Burrow Roaches, and as a result I either stop Droning too soon and get out macroed, or I Drone too long and get stomped.
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I've been wondering about Baneling openings vs Protoss. When are these viable?
A lot of Gateway openings I've seen (3 gate sentry expand, even 4 gate) are mostly Zealots and Sentries, since Stalkers aren't hugely useful vZ until Blink. As these are both Light units, would it make sense to open Banelings if you scout/sense a Gateway opening push? I know Banes aren't terribly amazing vs Zealots, but killing off all those Sentries (and therefore FFs) seems like a legit strategy.
Also, it can help set you up for a Ling/Bling/Infestor midgame, but I feel that it may be a bit "scary" in the early game.
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On July 15 2011 01:01 ZasZ. wrote:
Having trouble vs. Protoss, did a search and didn't find anything particularly helpful or credible:
How soon should I expand (to my 3rd) if I scout Nexus first or Forge FE? I'm having trouble holding off 5/6-gate timings and I think it's because I'm not taking my 3rd early enough. I usually don't have a problem with Stargate play because my creep spread is pretty good.
What is the general timing window for said 5/6-gate attack? It seems to come at different times and I'm never sure when to start preparing for it with Burrow Roaches, and as a result I either stop Droning too soon and get out macroed, or I Drone too long and get stomped.
Push will come between 9 and 10 minutes.
You should be constantly saccing overlords from 7:30 until you know exactly what's happening.
Even against 6 gate stuff you should be able to crank out 50-60 drones giving you a big eco lead.
Take your 3rd fast. You don't need it for economy, you need it for the production. If Toss does some sort of all-in, it also spreads you out, meaning you have time to recover if you're going to lose a base.
Don't forget burrow!
On July 15 2011 02:28 Requizen wrote:
I've been wondering about Baneling openings vs Protoss. When are these viable?
A lot of Gateway openings I've seen (3 gate sentry expand, even 4 gate) are mostly Zealots and Sentries, since Stalkers aren't hugely useful vZ until Blink. As these are both Light units, would it make sense to open Banelings if you scout/sense a Gateway opening push? I know Banes aren't terribly amazing vs Zealots, but killing off all those Sentries (and therefore FFs) seems like a legit strategy.
Also, it can help set you up for a Ling/Bling/Infestor midgame, but I feel that it may be a bit "scary" in the early game.
What do you mean by baneling opening?
Banes are awesome, but they're at their best when loaded up into drops, and you can't really "open" baneling drop.
Mass ling builds are super viable, and they transition smoothly into baneling play, but you can also get to banelings by opening up with standard roach stuff...
Forcefield kinda owns banes. I wouldn't count on just rolling into sentries and winning games....
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On July 15 2011 02:28 Requizen wrote:
I've been wondering about Baneling openings vs Protoss. When are these viable?
A lot of Gateway openings I've seen (3 gate sentry expand, even 4 gate) are mostly Zealots and Sentries, since Stalkers aren't hugely useful vZ until Blink. As these are both Light units, would it make sense to open Banelings if you scout/sense a Gateway opening push? I know Banes aren't terribly amazing vs Zealots, but killing off all those Sentries (and therefore FFs) seems like a legit strategy.
Also, it can help set you up for a Ling/Bling/Infestor midgame, but I feel that it may be a bit "scary" in the early game.
Ive been trying a 13pool speedling into bane/sling opening in my zvp games lately. Usually one of two things will happen.
I break the zlot/sentry at his choke/ramp before banes are up or I break with bane/sling and both go into probe line/pylon harass.
Or he stops with good FFs and then you can find yourself in trouble due to a lack of drones.
Each time I try a modification of this opening.
10 overlord
Ves trick for 11/10
100 minerals ol again
13ves
13pool
Drone to 16
Pull two drones off at 100 gas
Queen and speed when pool pops.
Lings until 50 gas drop bane put two back onto ves.
300 expo
I've tried going into quick muta with this as well as infestor. The only big problem I've ran into is a gap of time to where if they sit and go 5gate behind before expand you'll be very open to a mass stalker attack.
Just a suggestion to try or look into.
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On July 15 2011 01:01 ZasZ. wrote:
Having trouble vs. Protoss, did a search and didn't find anything particularly helpful or credible:
How soon should I expand (to my 3rd) if I scout Nexus first or Forge FE? I'm having trouble holding off 5/6-gate timings and I think it's because I'm not taking my 3rd early enough. I usually don't have a problem with Stargate play because my creep spread is pretty good.
What is the general timing window for said 5/6-gate attack? It seems to come at different times and I'm never sure when to start preparing for it with Burrow Roaches, and as a result I either stop Droning too soon and get out macroed, or I Drone too long and get stomped.
As Bitter said you need to constantly scout so you know his comp and watch what he goes like pure stalker zealot then you can just get rolling banelings, zerglings, and a few roaches. A general change that I make for forge FE is instead of getting ling speed with my first 100 gas I go straight to lair. Pull off gas after I start lair, saturate 2 bases, get a roach warren. Start all 4 gases after saturation. I want to be in his base with a SPEED ovi at about 8 minutes. Then I react accordingly IF 6 gate either ling, bling, roach or ling, hydra and some blings. Expanding for your 3rd base in ZvP is pretty volatile just the same as doing it in ZvZ is so you can make the hatch for production BUT saturation is risky if you do it too fast, saturating the gas is a good option without wasting too many larva. Also you should NEVER think hes actually saturating a base until you see probes going to it.
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Hi!
So the problem is, I don't really know how to scout properly on large maps, like Tal Darim Altar. I attach a replay where the protoss waits till my scout drone dies, and then puts down a templar archive, making an army which contains Stalkers, Zealots and ARCHONS. I suppose my overlord couldnt even reach his base, but it was already too late.
Replay: http://dl.dropbox.com/u/5784661/sc2reps/taldarimHegi.SC2Replay
Thanks for the advices!
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Show nested quote +On July 15 2011 02:28 Requizen wrote:
I've been wondering about Baneling openings vs Protoss. When are these viable?
A lot of Gateway openings I've seen (3 gate sentry expand, even 4 gate) are mostly Zealots and Sentries, since Stalkers aren't hugely useful vZ until Blink. As these are both Light units, would it make sense to open Banelings if you scout/sense a Gateway opening push? I know Banes aren't terribly amazing vs Zealots, but killing off all those Sentries (and therefore FFs) seems like a legit strategy.
Also, it can help set you up for a Ling/Bling/Infestor midgame, but I feel that it may be a bit "scary" in the early game. What do you mean by baneling opening? Banes are awesome, but they're at their best when loaded up into drops, and you can't really "open" baneling drop. Mass ling builds are super viable, and they transition smoothly into baneling play, but you can also get to banelings by opening up with standard roach stuff... Forcefield kinda owns banes. I wouldn't count on just rolling into sentries and winning games....
I've been playing with the idea of getting fast Baneling Nest and spreading out my units near my base, so I can get flanks and (hopefully) nullify FFs or make them waste a bunch. Slow Blings are slow, but having a few come from every direction would be hard to block off.
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On July 15 2011 05:03 Requizen wrote:Show nested quote +On July 15 2011 02:28 Requizen wrote:
I've been wondering about Baneling openings vs Protoss. When are these viable?
A lot of Gateway openings I've seen (3 gate sentry expand, even 4 gate) are mostly Zealots and Sentries, since Stalkers aren't hugely useful vZ until Blink. As these are both Light units, would it make sense to open Banelings if you scout/sense a Gateway opening push? I know Banes aren't terribly amazing vs Zealots, but killing off all those Sentries (and therefore FFs) seems like a legit strategy.
Also, it can help set you up for a Ling/Bling/Infestor midgame, but I feel that it may be a bit "scary" in the early game. What do you mean by baneling opening? Banes are awesome, but they're at their best when loaded up into drops, and you can't really "open" baneling drop. Mass ling builds are super viable, and they transition smoothly into baneling play, but you can also get to banelings by opening up with standard roach stuff... Forcefield kinda owns banes. I wouldn't count on just rolling into sentries and winning games.... I've been playing with the idea of getting fast Baneling Nest and spreading out my units near my base, so I can get flanks and (hopefully) nullify FFs or make them waste a bunch. Slow Blings are slow, but having a few come from every direction would be hard to block off.
I took a lesson from the player DecemberTV and he was explaining to me that killing the sentries is really your whole goal when stopping protoss pushes. This is why people have started using drops and mutas and I think its effective to have one or the other but since its cheaper to get drops and banes with my roaches and a few corrupters that's the way I do it.
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When playing a ling, infestor, baneling style unit composition, how do you deal with forcefields and colossus? I know ultras would be great at pushing, but the toss will usually hit me before I can get my hive tech up and running. It's really annoying, because the toss will ff all my infestors out, and have a field day with my lings.
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On July 15 2011 06:29 KimJongChill wrote:
When playing a ling, infestor, baneling style unit composition, how do you deal with forcefields and colossus? I know ultras would be great at pushing, but the toss will usually hit me before I can get my hive tech up and running. It's really annoying, because the toss will ff all my infestors out, and have a field day with my lings.
This is why you see players adding overlord drop.
Drop on sentries, bye bye forcefield.
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How do ling openings vs protoss work exactly?
I would think you need an early 3rd hatch to keep up with the larvae usage, but I'm not sure when to add the 3rd hatch. It seems that I can't ever get the 3rd hatch up and running in time to defend the first push from a 1 base protoss.
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Hi Quick question for those in the know to see if I'm heading in the right direction. I'm only in gold so it's hard to tell...
In ZvP on Taldarim my opponent often forge-expands. The last three times this has happened I've won by taking an early third, teching to spire, and putting all my gas into mutalisks, overlord speed/drop and +melee while massing Zerglings. Each time, my muta harassment has steered him towards blink stalkers / templar and away from colossi. When he starts to try for a third base, I pull his stalkers there with my mutalisks and then dump all my lings (60 or so usually) into the exposed corner of his main. Each time he's pulled back to defend, and I've been able to join my mutalisk/ling forces by cutting the corner from his third into the main. There are typically no cannons to fly over and I've been able to force him to commit (and lose) his stalkers to save his main. After that it's just more and more mutalisks.
This feels really good, but I'm not sure whether I'm a) missing an opportunity to end the game sooner and easier, or b) relying too heavily on my opponent missing important timings.
Thanks!
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A quick question that sorta relates to whats been asked before, but: in ZvP if your opponent goes for that gatewaypush at 9-10 mins after the 3 gate expand, whats a good unit comp to stop it? Usually they have 6-8 sentries, one zealot and about 10-12 stalkers I believe. I usually open up with roach/ling for a slight push to his nat (and to try and snipe some sentries) while expanding behind at, thus delaying lairtech alittle. SO I usually try to stop the push with roach/ling, but I often fail.
So basically my question is, do I fail cause my macro is horrible (it could be better) or cause its just not a good composition to deal with sentrystalker? cause forcefields and bigger range from stalkers pretty much annihilates me everytime...
Also I dont wanna have a roach/hydra centric midgame, so I kinda dont want to get hydras "just" to stop that push if it isnt necessary. but I kinda know that banedrops would come to late, cause of my delayed lair and the 2 minute dropresearchtime. So any suggestions to that?
Thanks in advance
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On July 15 2011 04:58 desh00 wrote:Hi! So the problem is, I don't really know how to scout properly on large maps, like Tal Darim Altar. I attach a replay where the protoss waits till my scout drone dies, and then puts down a templar archive, making an army which contains Stalkers, Zealots and ARCHONS. I suppose my overlord couldnt even reach his base, but it was already too late. Replay: http://dl.dropbox.com/u/5784661/sc2reps/taldarimHegi.SC2ReplayThanks for the advices!
I think you need to spread your overlords more. If you send the first one to cross spawn on Tal'Darim it will reach in time to scout (even the second or third would probably have made it in this one). Also controlling Xel'naga towers with lings will give you more warning.
In this one there were some clues you could have picked up on. You scouted 2 gas early from him, but the force that killed your lings at 8:00 had exactly one sentry and one stalker and the rest zealots. At this point you have to figure he is hiding gas. If you had an overlord in position by his base ready to sacrifice, you could have found out what he was doing with it.
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hi this may sound stupid but sometimes when i 10pool rush someone. they do something with their drones/workers kinda like walk through my lings and then suddenly they get a very good surround. anybody knows how it works? i want to learn it. thanks!
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I'm looking for a pretty specific answer here. Say I lose an early scouting overlord to marines or a queen being careless(it happens to all of us). Seeing that the overlord is going to go down is it immediately better to start a replacement or to just drone hard unit it goes down? I'm not exactly sure on how to do the math on this one, it's why I'm asking.
I can see droning being better if you can fit 3 or so in before you get supply blocked. Then starting the overlord. Anyway if someone could find the exact number of drones you would need to make it more profitable?
Edit: knowing there is no pressure coming. I'm asking more about the economical side of this. It's obvious to know what to do if he is sending units at me.
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On July 15 2011 21:14 herzanger wrote:
hi this may sound stupid but sometimes when i 10pool rush someone. they do something with their drones/workers kinda like walk through my lings and then suddenly they get a very good surround. anybody knows how it works? i want to learn it. thanks!
It's called mineral walking. They select their workers and click a mineral patch at their natural so the workers "mineral walk" (Pass through any units unobstructed). Then when they surround the zerglings they issue attack moves.
You'll find it to be a very useful tool in getting a scout drone past a zealot in ZvP.
This only works for workers. Just right click minerals.
On July 15 2011 21:17 Attiicus wrote:
I'm looking for a pretty specific answer here. Say I lose an early scouting overlord to marines or a queen being careless(it happens to all of us). Seeing that the overlord is going to go down is it immediately better to start a replacement or to just drone hard unit it goes down? I'm not exactly sure on how to do the math on this one, it's why I'm asking.
I can see droning being better if you can fit 3 or so in before you get supply blocked. Then starting the overlord. Anyway if someone could find the exact number of drones you would need to make it more profitable?
Low skill opinion
Make an overlord first. Drones may be more economical but the risk of the unknown threat while you are supply blocked supercedes a couple of additional workers early game. Maybe I'm wrong but I would always want the possibility to choose between zerglings and drones instead of picking one and hoping there aren't 7 more marines being rallied behind the three killing my overlord.
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EPT
