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Holzmann
United States24 Posts
[B]On July 11 2011 16:10 blade55555 wrote:I get my third pretty fast (and my fourth). In zvz you should be gas starved, not mineral starved most of the time. You should be able to get a third and shortly after a fourth and it not really hurt your units to produce (infestors being mainly gas heavy). How do you prevent runbys to your third? Spinecrawlers? Sim city? Or do you go on the offensive to draw his aggro? | ||
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Probe1
United States17920 Posts
On July 11 2011 19:04 DarkCore wrote: Ok, so I've has this problem before: In one ZvZ in get my infestation pit very late, and scout my opponent has 6 infestors with roaches. I am maxed out with 2-2 roaches, but I have no idea what to do. So how should I react? Stall for some techy unit? Or just suicide some roaches to get my own infestors? If you're maxing out you should already have infestors or one of the other flavors of tier 2 mixed in and yeah, you should be trying for small skirmishes to free supply for ultras/brood lords. | ||
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Effay
United States153 Posts
On July 11 2011 16:10 blade55555 wrote: 1. I personally get my infestation pit when I start + 2 ranged attack. 2. I get my third pretty fast (and my fourth). In zvz you should be gas starved, not mineral starved most of the time. You should be able to get a third and shortly after a fourth and it not really hurt your units to produce (infestors being mainly gas heavy). I would get the third about the same time your infestation pit finishes or a little before depending on what he is doing. When should I be getting +1 ranged then? I've never really had a set timing for it, but I usually grab my evo chamber when the ling/baneling stage has stopped and I've start making roaches. | ||
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blade55555
United States17423 Posts
On July 12 2011 02:09 Effay wrote: When should I be getting +1 ranged then? I've never really had a set timing for it, but I usually grab my evo chamber when the ling/baneling stage has stopped and I've start making roaches. I get my +1 before I start lair. How do you prevent runbys to your third? Spinecrawlers? Sim city? Or do you go on the offensive to draw his aggro? I have banelings and I use spine crawlers as well. Again I am always gas starved and have excess minerals so it doesn't hurt me at all to do it. | ||
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KimJongChill
United States6429 Posts
On July 11 2011 13:12 Bodzilla wrote: sup guys i'm a zerg looking for a cost efficient strategy in zvz that ISNT an infestor build. dont get me wrong infestors are awesome, i just dont want to go them every game, and i dont want to do cheesey rush's. I'm looking for a viable unit composition thats not roach hydra infestor, and i havnt had much success with muta, simply because if i make a mistake with my unit control he'll just fungal them and essentially kill the entire army i had invested in. now obviously ling bane is out because they get smashed by infestors as well....... is there anything else out there. i await your reply. zilla~ Try mass spines and mass lings for counterattacks while teching to broodlord/corrupter. Sounds silly, but it can work. At some point, get a few mutas for harassment/contain/overlord pick-offs. | ||
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Atila
Cuba122 Posts
Lategame ZvZ what tech-path should I take? I used to go broodlords until I started getting owned by ultras, and now that I go ultras I'm getting owned by broodlords. How should I approach this/can anyone talk to me about lategame ZvZ? | ||
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Xizorz
93 Posts
Between ling bling infestor it seems 50/50 that my army either decimates or gets decimated, depending on positioning. Is there a better strategy? I found that waiting him out with a couple spines and getting faster broodlord wins the game easily; once 2-3 broodlord is out you send them in, fungal his marines, and win the game as his tanks blow each other up. I just don't know if that's viable on maps where a 3rd is difficult to get. | ||
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blade55555
United States17423 Posts
On July 12 2011 07:53 Atila wrote: Ok, another question: Lategame ZvZ what tech-path should I take? I used to go broodlords until I started getting owned by ultras, and now that I go ultras I'm getting owned by broodlords. How should I approach this/can anyone talk to me about lategame ZvZ? Broodlords are the way to go. Ultra's can't attack broodlords and are thus imo not as good. When you start hive is when you should get your spire. Also don't rush it, constantly scout your opponent to see when he is going hive and what not. Try to do it at a good lateish time and not rushing because that will cost you games. If you see ultra's roach/hydra/infestor will handle them very nicely as long as you don't clump them up to much. On July 12 2011 13:50 Xizorz wrote: I am struggling with slow marine tank pushes where they leapfrog siege tanks. Between ling bling infestor it seems 50/50 that my army either decimates or gets decimated, depending on positioning. Is there a better strategy? I found that waiting him out with a couple spines and getting faster broodlord wins the game easily; once 2-3 broodlord is out you send them in, fungal his marines, and win the game as his tanks blow each other up. I just don't know if that's viable on maps where a 3rd is difficult to get. Try not to rush the engagement. Try to slow it down (acting like you are going to attack it to force siege) then back off. Get as many units as you possibly can and then go for a flank at the last second. I personally don't like ling/bane/infestor but if thats what you do, you should have ling/bane on 2 control groups. Half on one, half on another. Then do a 2 pronged attack either from the side or front and back if possible. Then fungel/neural parasite. If you are going heavy infestors get neural parasite so you can neural the tanks and fungel the marines while doing a flank. This is the best way to engage an army like that, flanks are super good trust me  | ||
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XXhkXX
170 Posts
How do you stop a BitbyBit all in? | ||
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MrBitter
United States2940 Posts
They suck up too much supply. If I'm playing against someone that builds broods, I'll just go around them and kill their whole base. They won't be able to engage my roach army because I will have such vastly superior numbers, and such incredible mobility. If its a choice between ultras and broods, then broods are much better... But really, why get either? Don't clump your roaches, dump your gas into infestors, and win the game with beter fungals and better control. | ||
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GenesisX
Canada4267 Posts
On July 12 2011 14:01 XXhkXX wrote: How do you stop a BitbyBit all in? First off is scouting it. The earlier you scout it, the earlier you can prepare to stop it. I assume you are talking about the 4-5 marine-pull-all-scv. In which case, you need to pump as many zerglings as you can and take all but 1-2 drones and all of your units to attack. Engage on creep if possible. What you want to do is use your zerglings to attack the front, while you path behind with drones (mineral line). Try to surround marines, as they do the most damage. If you can win with 3-4 drones surviving, you win. Don't forget that the terran still has mules at home, which equate to 6-7 workers. | ||
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blade55555
United States17423 Posts
On July 12 2011 14:17 MrBitter wrote: I'm not crazy about late game broods. They suck up too much supply. If I'm playing against someone that builds broods, I'll just go around them and kill their whole base. They won't be able to engage my roach army because I will have such vastly superior numbers, and such incredible mobility. If its a choice between ultras and broods, then broods are much better... But really, why get either? Don't clump your roaches, dump your gas into infestors, and win the game with beter fungals and better control. I disagree with this post. You don't have to get 10+ broodlords to make them good. 3-5 are good and if you have only a roach army well he should have roach/hydra/infestors to. 10 supply really isn't that much. You could have more roaches but with fungles it can work great. I mean a player that goes roach/hydra/infestor all game vs the guy who transitions into roach/hydra/inestor with 3-5 broodlords, the guy with the 3-5 broodlords wins unless he just engages in a horrible concave or something silly. | ||
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Trufflez
Australia174 Posts
On July 12 2011 14:17 MrBitter wrote: I'm not crazy about late game broods. They suck up too much supply. If I'm playing against someone that builds broods, I'll just go around them and kill their whole base. They won't be able to engage my roach army because I will have such vastly superior numbers, and such incredible mobility. If its a choice between ultras and broods, then broods are much better... But really, why get either? Don't clump your roaches, dump your gas into infestors, and win the game with beter fungals and better control. You know that nobody ONLY makes Brood Lords right? They DO have a tonne of roaches and hydras and infestors on the ground. I take them out with my own corruptors or neural parasite them. if they have 3-5 I neural them and win with better fungals and more damage. If they have a swarm of them then I just take them out with corruptors, and he won't have much else if he's invested so heavily in them. | ||
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Thraundil
Denmark278 Posts
Broods are great for breaking long stalemates of course, after an indecisive army trade the one who can field surprise broods could really capitalize - but here again comes the question of basetrade. I am sure there is a magical way to incorporate brood lords very efficiently, I just rarely win when I use them and often beat other guys using them, so Im slightly biased I guess. | ||
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Bodzilla
Australia472 Posts
On July 12 2011 03:30 KimJongChill wrote: Try mass spines and mass lings for counterattacks while teching to broodlord/corrupter. Sounds silly, but it can work. At some point, get a few mutas for harassment/contain/overlord pick-offs. i was looking into double nydus harrassment into broodlords. that shit needs ALOT of apm and economy management to pull off T__T | ||
Liquid`Sheth
United States2095 Posts
On July 12 2011 18:26 Thraundil wrote: In my opinion the main problem about going for brood lords in ZvZ is, if you are on equal terms with your opponent, suddenly having to stock up 1000 gas to make 5 brood lords can be a big deal if he either scouts the greater spire morphing, or simply gets lucky with his own push timing (as he will probably be close to max around the time you decide to fill your final 10 supply with 5 broods). Broods are great for breaking long stalemates of course, after an indecisive army trade the one who can field surprise broods could really capitalize - but here again comes the question of basetrade. I am sure there is a magical way to incorporate brood lords very efficiently, I just rarely win when I use them and often beat other guys using them, so Im slightly biased I guess. The point with making broods is to counter the infestor - roach - spine defense that they've set up. If you set up a proper defense with positioning spines and spores you can generally be unattackable. Thats when you transition. | ||
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Atila
Cuba122 Posts
The reason is that every time I incorporate ultras or broodlords into my (platinum) play, I roflstomp pure roach/infestor (this is with a good spread). Broodlords, like Bitter said, feel too slow for me, and I feel hydras are also too slow to prevent them getting sniped by corruptors. Can anyone talk to me a bit more about lategame ZvZ in general? Also, how do you guys feel about neural parasite in ZvZ? | ||
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ETisME
12384 Posts
On July 13 2011 14:22 Atila wrote: Answers were very different than I thought they would be The reason is that every time I incorporate ultras or broodlords into my (platinum) play, I roflstomp pure roach/infestor (this is with a good spread). Broodlords, like Bitter said, feel too slow for me, and I feel hydras are also too slow to prevent them getting sniped by corruptors. Can anyone talk to me a bit more about lategame ZvZ in general? Also, how do you guys feel about neural parasite in ZvZ? fungal definitly is worth much more than neural parasite in zvz. Late game-wise, I don't like going hive, I prefer staying pure roache and infestors. Broodlords move too slow, if you were caught out of position and he just runs to your base, you can't defend it with your roache because it is obviously smaller. At best, you can just hope for a base trade. Ultras also get trapped by infested terran, making them useless. I just do some lings runby, try to do some drops with roache and infestors and end it with a good big roache, infestors battle | ||
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dementrio
678 Posts
how is going brood lords zvz not stupid? the guy who does not get brood lords spends less gas since he only needs corruptors, and obviously can get more than you have, so all the brood lords can accomplish is wasting you gas. | ||
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blade55555
United States17423 Posts
On July 13 2011 16:02 dementrio wrote: I asked this in the simple questions thread but got no answer, and since you are discussing it here: how is going brood lords zvz not stupid? the guy who does not get brood lords spends less gas since he only needs corruptors, and obviously can get more than you have, so all the brood lords can accomplish is wasting you gas. sorry 5 broodlords is only 10 food. honestly with how strong infestors are zvz, broodlords are actually pretty good. If you morph them stupidly or something sure but they are actually good. I have won my fair share of zvz's against good players using broodlords. did it vs catz on a crazy shakuras game and if I didn't go broodlords would have gone on for another 50 minutes. We both couldn't attack into eachother due to both of us having like 20 infestors lol. | ||
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