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On July 04 2011 15:35 TheGreenMachine wrote:
What are some of the best ways to hold off 2 rax? I am 1500-1600 masters zerg who does 14 hatch 15 pool, scouting when my hatch goes down.
I drone to 18, overlord (it finishes seconds before pool and hatch finish).
Transfer 5 drones to my natural when hatch is nearly finished (more drones transfered+17 overlord instead of 18 if its super early 2 rax like 11/11)
Then immediate spine crawler+1 queen at my natural, cut units until money for 2nd queen in the main unless he pulls lots of scvs in which case get more lings asap.
Defending with queen+spine crawler as much as possible, only make lings if necessary.
Is this the BEST possible way to defend 2 rax? I know theres a few variations of 2 rax but is there any slight modification that could make it better?
14 gas 14 pool is the best way to hold it off really. Against good 2 raxers, you might need to do it if your drone/ling control isn't top notch. Or in the case of DongRaeGu, sC's 2 rax is just so godly he needs to do gas pool.
That said if you want to go hatch first, go 15 hatch 14 pool (though 14 hatch 15 pool is fine if its a huge map like xel naga, but in which case 2 rax is less likely). You want your pool nice and quick. You say you "only make lings if necessary" well you really do need lings every time if you don't want to risk (and you do risk) losing a ton of stuff. Your crawler/queen is not going to finish in time for you to defend the initial attack very well really. Only build 1 queen at the nat, lings, and a crawler (if its open like xel naga). Drone to 17, then overlord, then save larva for lings. Its good to have a scouting drone; if you see the guy pull like 4-5 scvs, you need more drones than 5 to go with your lings.
Oh yeah you should also 9 drone scout against terran to check gas timings and do some scv harass. You don't want to risk getting walled in. Also you want to confirm 2 rax is coming.
In short, you need to be way less greedy and be spot on with your control. Remember, better safe than sorry. Being safe early on isn't such a hit on your economy that its worth taking bigger risks and straight up losing to 2 rax.
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On July 07 2011 08:59 dave333 wrote:Show nested quote +On July 04 2011 15:35 TheGreenMachine wrote:
What are some of the best ways to hold off 2 rax? I am 1500-1600 masters zerg who does 14 hatch 15 pool, scouting when my hatch goes down.
I drone to 18, overlord (it finishes seconds before pool and hatch finish).
Transfer 5 drones to my natural when hatch is nearly finished (more drones transfered+17 overlord instead of 18 if its super early 2 rax like 11/11)
Then immediate spine crawler+1 queen at my natural, cut units until money for 2nd queen in the main unless he pulls lots of scvs in which case get more lings asap.
Defending with queen+spine crawler as much as possible, only make lings if necessary.
Is this the BEST possible way to defend 2 rax? I know theres a few variations of 2 rax but is there any slight modification that could make it better? 14 gas 14 pool is the best way to hold it off really. Against good 2 raxers, you might need to do it if your drone/ling control isn't top notch. Or in the case of DongRaeGu, sC's 2 rax is just so godly he needs to do gas pool. That said if you want to go hatch first, go 15 hatch 14 pool (though 14 hatch 15 pool is fine if its a huge map like xel naga, but in which case 2 rax is less likely). You want your pool nice and quick. You say you "only make lings if necessary" well you really do need lings every time if you don't want to risk (and you do risk) losing a ton of stuff. Your crawler/queen is not going to finish in time for you to defend the initial attack very well really. Only build 1 queen at the nat, lings, and a crawler (if its open like xel naga). Drone to 17, then overlord, then save larva for lings. Its good to have a scouting drone; if you see the guy pull like 4-5 scvs, you need more drones than 5 to go with your lings. Oh yeah you should also 9 drone scout against terran to check gas timings and do some scv harass. You don't want to risk getting walled in. Also you want to confirm 2 rax is coming. In short, you need to be way less greedy and be spot on with your control. Remember, better safe than sorry. Being safe early on isn't such a hit on your economy that its worth taking bigger risks and straight up losing to 2 rax.
I disagree. If by 14 gas 14 pool you mean a Speedling Expand, its significantly harder to stop a 2 rax than if you went hatch first. The reason is that even if you Speedling Expand, your lings will still be slow when the push comes, and your hatch so delayed you cannot have a spine up in time.
I go 15 hatch 14 pool. To hold a 2rax I throw down 2 spines, one near your minerals and one near your choke. You need to kill his rines while having 2 or 3 drones hit the scv building the bunker. Remember scouting for the bunker is crucial.
To sum up, stopping a 2rax requires or a hatch-first or a 1 base play. Speedling expand will not cut it
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Tetra teach me ZvZ. I give u 2$.
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On July 07 2011 08:08 Atila wrote:
@Blade:
Im usually very hesitant to put an overlord behind his nat just because if he looks for it and ends up killing it, I'm supply blocked and it makes a bunker rush that much stronger. Additionally, if I poke in with roaches, couldn't a Terran just hide most his units/tech?
By behind his natural, I mean in a space where marines can't get it. Where the only way that overlord will die is if he makes a viking. On most maps you can get it there with a guarantee it will make it there alive. The only map where its not guaranteed is xelnaga. Metal the only place on the map you can put an overlord behind his natural without marines being able to shoot it is in the 12 o clock base (I think its 12 top left hand corner).
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On July 07 2011 06:18 VoirDire wrote:Show nested quote +On July 07 2011 05:37 Giku wrote:
Right, I´ve tried to search for this but I´m in trouble with the following ZvT:
I go FE
Terran goes Bunker Rush, I hold off and drone a bit.
Terran comes with 2-6 hellions, I react and hold it off with either spines/queens or roaches.
Then a few mins later the Terran comes up with siege tanks + some bio ball and left over hellions.
I don't have a third yet, nor does he have an expo up and it's only about 2-3 tanks with siege mode.
How do I hold it off?
Mass zergling seem to die too fast to get to the tanks, I see banes having the same faith.. I suppose I could mass more roaches but they die fast to marauders and Mutas will be way too late..
Say I scout this/see it coming, how to react?
I've been trying more infestor-based play lately, maybe that'll help. It seems you just need to refine your drone/army timings a bit. If you defend the bunker rush and the hellion transition adequately you should be miles ahead if he's still on 1 base. I think you might be overreacting to his attacks. If you don't see a natural expo happening from terran, just focus on building lots of stuff and flank him while he's moving towards your base. Basically any army composition should work.
On July 07 2011 06:45 Hawk2 wrote:Show nested quote +On July 07 2011 05:37 Giku wrote:
Right, I´ve tried to search for this but I´m in trouble with the following ZvT:
I go FE
Terran goes Bunker Rush, I hold off and drone a bit.
Terran comes with 2-6 hellions, I react and hold it off with either spines/queens or roaches.
Then a few mins later the Terran comes up with siege tanks + some bio ball and left over hellions.
I don't have a third yet, nor does he have an expo up and it's only about 2-3 tanks with siege mode.
How do I hold it off?
Mass zergling seem to die too fast to get to the tanks, I see banes having the same faith.. I suppose I could mass more roaches but they die fast to marauders and Mutas will be way too late..
Say I scout this/see it coming, how to react?
I've been trying more infestor-based play lately, maybe that'll help. You're going to have to give us a replay of this, but for now I'll say that "holding it off" isn't enough you need to have a worker advantage against terran while fighting off their harrass, it's hard but definitely doable, if you're a muta ling player, mutalisks should be out long before he can go for a tank marine timing attack, if you're a roach player I would suggest to use Roach baneling against that composition. I can't say much more without a replay. ~vileHawk
The only decent replay I could find;
http://www42.zippyshare.com/v/24150628/file.html
I reckon I made the mistake @ 8:40 by letting the hellions in my main. But I don't know how I could've possibly held off that second attack. Should I have normally had my mutas up by then?
I mean, the 4 hellions will kill of any lings that come close, and he had 6 marauders for my roaches. Should I normally have mutas out by then?
Thanks for the help already btw  !
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On July 07 2011 04:35 Hawk2 wrote:Show nested quote +On July 05 2011 15:04 dementrio wrote:
Hawk,
in my experience, when going speed expand vs hatch first there's a timing window where they get double injects before you have your natural up. You can't keep up in production; you need banelings because of that; but if he makes double inject drones you are leagues behind. Obviously he *should* go roaches, which would nullify any advantage hatch first has, because everything else is unsafe; but why would he open hatch first in the first place if he wanted to play safe?
There's also speed expand vs speed expand scenarios. Staying on no gas for too long is unsafe, but gives you a huge advantage over someone who quickly goes for defensive roach/bling. Your build would put you way behind someone who skips the nest/warren; and if/when you can scout it it's already too late to commit to an attack. hi, you made some really good points, and again I'm not saying this build is perfect, there is no "perfect" build for zvz, I said that this build was SAFE. Given that, I will address your two points. First point is that this build can't keep up in production against an aggressive 15 hatch. It's actually quite easy to do so, just use your initial 6 speedzerglings to scout how many drones he has at his natural, and his larva count which will tell if he is massing them for an attack. I will show how you can defend with this build in the replay I give, the game is against FXOSheth. And again, the 6 zerglings with speed will easily be able to see if he's making drones, in which case you can react properly... Speed expand vs Speed expand in which your opponent goes speed no warren/nest is almost unheard of, mainly because it's a HUGE meta-game risk, but you're right if your opponent does that, you are left behind, but not as much as you would think, because you already have some roaches out that are useful in the mid-game anyway. So it's true that if someone does speed expand without bane or roach support they can get an advantage against this, but no one is going to do this, because that build would die against literally almost anything else. Here's the replay http://replayfu.com/r/r6wjjg (speedling expand into roach defending against 15 hatch aggression)
Thanks for the insight. I'm still unsatisfied with this situation, because I think it's very hard to come back from even a slight disadvantage zvz; the only units that allow you to do that are banelings and infestors; banelings are unreliable and can put you more behind just as easily; and most of the time if you fall behind early you'll die before you can get to infestors.
4 unnecessary roaches are kind of a big deal; beside less drones, this could mean later upgrades, later lair. E.g. with equal economy it's almost impossible to survive a roach timing attack with an upgrade disadvantage. Ladder is also full of people doing plain bad builds that happen to be very good against "safe" builds like yours; e.g. 1 base +1 speedlins into mutas; or hatch-gas-pool with no gas mining after speed.
This is why I feel like trying to play safe is a lot of work for little return and a lot of frustration. I could play by "feel", and take a coinflip by either committing to aggression or being greedy and probably get the same winrate.
Anyway thanks for the build. I'll try to keep using it for a while longer
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Hi, I'm a rank 1 diamond player. I often play masters level players and I'm working on improving my ZvsT macro game. Generally tho, I pretty much always lose to Terran unless they aren't at least diamond. Today, I had a particularly hard match against a masters player even though it was a custom game.
I was pretty much even with him and I somehow fell behind in drone count and econ the entire game. At the beginning, I might not have needed to build a 2nd spine crawler to prevent the hellion harass and instead used the roaches to block my ramp or something.
Obviously, the rest of the game is self explanatory because he had so much more resources than me. But what bothers me is how I fell so much behind in the first place.
Any tips are appreciated.
Here's the replay:
http://sharesend.com/5p486
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On July 07 2011 07:03 Atila wrote:put into spoilers because quote is long :> + Show Spoiler +On July 07 2011 06:45 Hawk2 wrote:Show nested quote +On July 07 2011 05:46 Atila wrote:
Hello. Recently I've been going 3 hatch (thats 2 expansions, 1 main base) before lair tech in both ZvP and ZvT. At my level I have been outmacroing opponents hard with this opening. However, I'm worried that I am not aware of ways an opponent could exploit this'
My question is, can someone just provide general information on this opening? eg. How would someone respond, what should I look out for, etc.?
Thanks in advance
This build is meant to counter your opponents (protoss or terran) fast expansion build by going onto 3 bases early against them, as Zerg needs to be on 1 more base than their opponent. Of course doing this blindly can lead to an easy win for your opponent if he decides to stay on 1 base. At the top level there are many builds tailored to punish this type of play, like FE into double factory hellion, FE into 6 gate, FE into fast void/pheonix to name a few. So it's a strong way to play if you do it correctly I.E. scout beforehand that they are expanding and know how P/T usually play against a 3 base Zerg and just counter it. ~vileHawk <3 You specifically mentioned FE. My question is, if a P/T isn't doing a one-base all-in (therefore he will be expanding, though not a FE), is it safe go ahead and take my third expansion before Lair?
Reposting question since it probably got lost in the last page
Also, thanks to all who have helped so far :D
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On July 07 2011 09:11 Atila wrote:Show nested quote +On July 07 2011 08:59 dave333 wrote:On July 04 2011 15:35 TheGreenMachine wrote:
What are some of the best ways to hold off 2 rax? I am 1500-1600 masters zerg who does 14 hatch 15 pool, scouting when my hatch goes down.
I drone to 18, overlord (it finishes seconds before pool and hatch finish).
Transfer 5 drones to my natural when hatch is nearly finished (more drones transfered+17 overlord instead of 18 if its super early 2 rax like 11/11)
Then immediate spine crawler+1 queen at my natural, cut units until money for 2nd queen in the main unless he pulls lots of scvs in which case get more lings asap.
Defending with queen+spine crawler as much as possible, only make lings if necessary.
Is this the BEST possible way to defend 2 rax? I know theres a few variations of 2 rax but is there any slight modification that could make it better? 14 gas 14 pool is the best way to hold it off really. Against good 2 raxers, you might need to do it if your drone/ling control isn't top notch. Or in the case of DongRaeGu, sC's 2 rax is just so godly he needs to do gas pool. That said if you want to go hatch first, go 15 hatch 14 pool (though 14 hatch 15 pool is fine if its a huge map like xel naga, but in which case 2 rax is less likely). You want your pool nice and quick. You say you "only make lings if necessary" well you really do need lings every time if you don't want to risk (and you do risk) losing a ton of stuff. Your crawler/queen is not going to finish in time for you to defend the initial attack very well really. Only build 1 queen at the nat, lings, and a crawler (if its open like xel naga). Drone to 17, then overlord, then save larva for lings. Its good to have a scouting drone; if you see the guy pull like 4-5 scvs, you need more drones than 5 to go with your lings. Oh yeah you should also 9 drone scout against terran to check gas timings and do some scv harass. You don't want to risk getting walled in. Also you want to confirm 2 rax is coming. In short, you need to be way less greedy and be spot on with your control. Remember, better safe than sorry. Being safe early on isn't such a hit on your economy that its worth taking bigger risks and straight up losing to 2 rax. I disagree. If by 14 gas 14 pool you mean a Speedling Expand, its significantly harder to stop a 2 rax than if you went hatch first. The reason is that even if you Speedling Expand, your lings will still be slow when the push comes, and your hatch so delayed you cannot have a spine up in time. I go 15 hatch 14 pool. To hold a 2rax I throw down 2 spines, one near your minerals and one near your choke. You need to kill his rines while having 2 or 3 drones hit the scv building the bunker. Remember scouting for the bunker is crucial. To sum up, stopping a 2rax requires or a hatch-first or a 1 base play. Speedling expand will not cut it
I speedling expand vs 2rax all the time, seems to me like the safest way to stop it. Usually a good 2 rax will show up before your spines are anywhere near done - you need to pull drones so perfectly to avoid game ending losses. Meanwhile a speed expand - you can cut off reinforcements and clean up the marines/scvs near your base with your building lings.
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On July 08 2011 01:16 Atila wrote:Show nested quote +On July 07 2011 07:03 Atila wrote:put into spoilers because quote is long :> + Show Spoiler +On July 07 2011 06:45 Hawk2 wrote:Show nested quote +On July 07 2011 05:46 Atila wrote:
Hello. Recently I've been going 3 hatch (thats 2 expansions, 1 main base) before lair tech in both ZvP and ZvT. At my level I have been outmacroing opponents hard with this opening. However, I'm worried that I am not aware of ways an opponent could exploit this'
My question is, can someone just provide general information on this opening? eg. How would someone respond, what should I look out for, etc.?
Thanks in advance
This build is meant to counter your opponents (protoss or terran) fast expansion build by going onto 3 bases early against them, as Zerg needs to be on 1 more base than their opponent. Of course doing this blindly can lead to an easy win for your opponent if he decides to stay on 1 base. At the top level there are many builds tailored to punish this type of play, like FE into double factory hellion, FE into 6 gate, FE into fast void/pheonix to name a few. So it's a strong way to play if you do it correctly I.E. scout beforehand that they are expanding and know how P/T usually play against a 3 base Zerg and just counter it. ~vileHawk <3 You specifically mentioned FE. My question is, if a P/T isn't doing a one-base all-in (therefore he will be expanding, though not a FE), is it safe go ahead and take my third expansion before Lair? Reposting question since it probably got lost in the last page Also, thanks to all who have helped so far :D
it is generally possible to hold low tech quick 3rd against 2 base timings; however it can be quite difficult. It's also possible to find yourself in sticky spots where you are not able to get your 3rd as you wanted and you might end up getting it later than even a "standard" build would, kind of what happens when you plan to go hatch first but you get blocked.
E.g, if you wait until you have confirmation that your opponent is expanding before taking your 3rd, even if you take it the instant you see him expand, you won't be able to hold it against cloaked banshees, DTs, and 1 base stargate (depending on map). with good scouting you should be able to "sense" whether one of these threats is coming, but even if you do your lair will still be late and you'll need lair tech to claim your 3rd.
Apart from this, I think it's easier to pull off vs terran; as long as you don't overdrone tier 1 units should be able to hold any kind of push they can throw at you; although you'll probably need to use roaches.
Versus protoss, you'll probably have trouble against 2 base sentry heavy gateway pushes. You need to set up flanks, runbies and counterattacks. A popular way to play zvp like this right now is ling/baneling with very quick +1 melee.
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Hey guys,
During this season lock, I've decided to switch from Protoss (yeah, yeah, yeah) to Zerg. Can anyone provide me with some basic builds for each matchup?
Thanks!
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On July 07 2011 08:29 Gros Bill wrote:Show nested quote +On July 07 2011 07:19 Shiv. wrote:
I've been experimenting with MorroW's ZvP which is basically an adjusted Spanishiwa build transitioning into Ling/BLing/Infestor with +2/+2 baneling drops and a lot of drop / counter attack antics in general.
While I like the build itself a lot, I am not too confident with the Infestor transition. You have to multitask a lot to make this build effective and not having your macro totally collapse is hard enough. Handling the infestors just seems to be a little bit too much for me. I've been trying to get Mutalisks (and eventually BLords and Cracklings) instead of Infestors to enhance the distractive side of this build in order to get more baneling drops going.
While I have had huge success with it, I am not too sure wether it's just my opponents being goldish level suckers as I myself or if it is a good idea to transition into Muta in general. Sometimes, my opponent just decides to do a desperation attack with all the stuff he has left and I find myself struggling against that if I spend most of my gas on Mutas instead of banelings, just because they lack the raw fighting ability of infestors. (Sounds contraintuitive, but is actually pretty accurate, from what I feel.)
Have you seen anyone... well, legit do this? I know MutaLing is a common style, especially Moon and July use them with great success, but I just love my little baneling shenanigans. So to sum the question up: is it viable? I would hate to learn to play that style successfully and find out that in retrospect I should just have sticked with something that actually works once I get promoted.
Hi Shiv, Do you have some replays/VOD/forum link about this specific "Morrow" style please ? Thanks.
There were some replays posted right beyound your post.
As for VODs: check out this daily . Day[9] examines an (earlier, from what I've heard) version of this build. But it gives you a basic idea of how the build works and why it is so good. Hope this helps.
Besides, I'd be grateful if someone could answer my question.
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On July 08 2011 02:02 Purpleh433 wrote:
Hey guys,
During this season lock, I've decided to switch from Protoss (yeah, yeah, yeah) to Zerg. Can anyone provide me with some basic builds for each matchup?
Thanks!
Safest: 14 gas, 14 pool.
Drone till 16, ovvie at 16, pool will finish soon, stop mining gas at 100, get queen and speed as soon as pool finishes.
Build 2 sets of lings, poke with them, expand as soon as you have 300 minerals.
From there just follow the game's flow.
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Hi fellow members of the swarm
I recently joined you and saw my winrate skyrocket ( without cheese :D)
I love this race and now the furst flaw I'd like to destroy are my injects.
I seem to always forget my injects from the moment I get excited (eg any battle)
I don't have problems with producing units, I keep spending my larvae, but the injects are really problematic 
I know I'm very low level and have to learn many things, but I'd like to hear from a high level player how he/she learned to do "perfect" injects.
Big thanks in advance ^^
Taxo
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On July 10 2011 00:48 Taxo wrote:Hi fellow members of the swarm I recently joined you and saw my winrate skyrocket ( without cheese :D) I love this race and now the furst flaw I'd like to destroy are my injects. I seem to always forget my injects from the moment I get excited (eg any battle) I don't have problems with producing units, I keep spending my larvae, but the injects are really problematic I know I'm very low level and have to learn many things, but I'd like to hear from a high level player how he/she learned to do "perfect" injects. Big thanks in advance ^^ Taxo
There are many different methods on how to inject using ur queens. I personally just hotkey and click on the hatcheries on the minimap. However this method is prolly a lot better if u can get the hang of it.
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=125725
Its pretty fast and easy to do. Also are you using hotkeys? If not then start using them bc it makes life a lot easier  . Also if you're in a lower league most of the time you can afford to look away from the battle to do some injects and remacro ur army, macro tends to be more powerful than micro in lower leagues. After your done injecting you can always check back in on your army. Also, just make sure that your army engages well, and not like at a choke or anything before you shift ur attn to injecting.
Hope this helps a bit
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On July 10 2011 00:48 Taxo wrote:Hi fellow members of the swarm I recently joined you and saw my winrate skyrocket ( without cheese :D) I love this race and now the furst flaw I'd like to destroy are my injects. I seem to always forget my injects from the moment I get excited (eg any battle) I don't have problems with producing units, I keep spending my larvae, but the injects are really problematic I know I'm very low level and have to learn many things, but I'd like to hear from a high level player how he/she learned to do "perfect" injects. Big thanks in advance ^^ Taxo
If you hotkey each queen individually you can check their energy by just tapping the hotkey, ~22 energy means the spawn larva is about to finish.
I do backspace method so I group all my queens together and cant easily tap to check my queens energy so I look for the spawn larva signal on the top left. I think its called "alerts". Itll say larva has spawned with a little larva symbol.
Or just get into the habit of spawning larva all the time, it helps to not over-micro in fights as well.
Macro is often more important than stutter stepping roaches chasing marines or little things like that.
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On July 10 2011 00:48 Taxo wrote:Hi fellow members of the swarm I recently joined you and saw my winrate skyrocket ( without cheese :D) I love this race and now the furst flaw I'd like to destroy are my injects. I seem to always forget my injects from the moment I get excited (eg any battle) I don't have problems with producing units, I keep spending my larvae, but the injects are really problematic I know I'm very low level and have to learn many things, but I'd like to hear from a high level player how he/she learned to do "perfect" injects. Big thanks in advance ^^ Taxo
Titan advocated this method in Bitter's 12 weeks with the pros:
go play games against the AI and focus on injecting only. Expand, drone up, make units, but make sure your injects are your #1 priority. Once you feel you have your injects down, go and do the same with ne next aspect of your gameplay you'd like to polish - creep spread or micro for example. Rinse&repeat until you have all your mechanical aspects of the game down.
My own question:
I've been experimenting with MorroW's ZvP which is basically an adjusted Spanishiwa build transitioning into Ling/BLing/Infestor with +2/+2 baneling drops and a lot of drop / counter attack antics in general.
While I like the build itself a lot, I am not too confident with the Infestor transition. You have to multitask a lot to make this build effective and not having your macro totally collapse is hard enough. Handling the infestors just seems to be a little bit too much for me. I've been trying to get Mutalisks (and eventually BLords and Cracklings) instead of Infestors to enhance the distractive side of this build in order to get more baneling drops going.
While I have had huge success with it, I am not too sure wether it's just my opponents being goldish level suckers as I myself or if it is a good idea to transition into Muta in general. Sometimes, my opponent just decides to do a desperation attack with all the stuff he has left and I find myself struggling against that if I spend most of my gas on Mutas instead of banelings, just because they lack the raw fighting ability of infestors. (Sounds contraintuitive, but is actually pretty accurate, from what I feel.)
Have you seen anyone... well, legit do this? I know MutaLing is a common style, especially Moon and July use them with great success, but I just love my little baneling shenanigans. So to sum the question up: is it viable? I would hate to learn to play that style successfully and find out that in retrospect I should just have sticked with something that actually works once I get promoted.
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On July 10 2011 00:59 Shiv. wrote:Show nested quote +On July 10 2011 00:48 Taxo wrote:Hi fellow members of the swarm I recently joined you and saw my winrate skyrocket ( without cheese :D) I love this race and now the furst flaw I'd like to destroy are my injects. I seem to always forget my injects from the moment I get excited (eg any battle) I don't have problems with producing units, I keep spending my larvae, but the injects are really problematic I know I'm very low level and have to learn many things, but I'd like to hear from a high level player how he/she learned to do "perfect" injects. Big thanks in advance ^^ Taxo Titan advocated this method in Bitter's 12 weeks with the pros: go play games against the AI and focus on injecting only. Expand, drone up, make units, but make sure your injects are your #1 priority. Once you feel you have your injects down, go and do the same with ne next aspect of your gameplay you'd like to polish - creep spread or micro for example. Rinse&repeat until you have all your mechanical aspects of the game down. My own question: I've been experimenting with MorroW's ZvP which is basically an adjusted Spanishiwa build transitioning into Ling/BLing/Infestor with +2/+2 baneling drops and a lot of drop / counter attack antics in general. While I like the build itself a lot, I am not too confident with the Infestor transition. You have to multitask a lot to make this build effective and not having your macro totally collapse is hard enough. Handling the infestors just seems to be a little bit too much for me. I've been trying to get Mutalisks (and eventually BLords and Cracklings) instead of Infestors to enhance the distractive side of this build in order to get more baneling drops going. While I have had huge success with it, I am not too sure wether it's just my opponents being goldish level suckers as I myself or if it is a good idea to transition into Muta in general. Sometimes, my opponent just decides to do a desperation attack with all the stuff he has left and I find myself struggling against that if I spend most of my gas on Mutas instead of banelings, just because they lack the raw fighting ability of infestors. (Sounds contraintuitive, but is actually pretty accurate, from what I feel.) Have you seen anyone... well, legit do this? I know MutaLing is a common style, especially Moon and July use them with great success, but I just love my little baneling shenanigans. So to sum the question up: is it viable? I would hate to learn to play that style successfully and find out that in retrospect I should just have sticked with something that actually works once I get promoted.
Well that would just become Ling/Bling/Muta then, but with a big gas sink in the form of drop research. I think its better to pick 1 strat and playing that perfect instead of executing 2 tactics pooly done.
(You don't have enough gas to get the muta flock up and you don't have enough gas to quickly pump the banes, drop, and upgrades).
Also harassing with burrowed infestors is potentially better than muta harass against toss. (Watch Destiny!)
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I'm a high master league zerg and I have a question for those better than I am:
What are you looking for when drone scouting a protoss?
It seems to me that the only important information you can gather is whether the protoss is forge-expanding/nexus first or opening on 1 base. I almost never see a single gas anymore, and the gateway count your drone happens to scout isn't reliable information. I feel like the biggest benefit from drone-scouting is that it deters them from throwing down tech buildings right after cybercore finishes.
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On July 10 2011 02:19 Exley wrote:
I'm a high master league zerg and I have a question for those better than I am:
What are you looking for when drone scouting a protoss?
It seems to me that the only important information you can gather is whether the protoss is forge-expanding/nexus first or opening on 1 base. I almost never see a single gas anymore, and the gateway count your drone happens to scout isn't reliable information. I feel like the biggest benefit from drone-scouting is that it deters them from throwing down tech buildings right after cybercore finishes.
check out this threat
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=241199
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EPT
