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I usually play very macro/passive style and I'm considering playing a bit more aggressive. Instead of just macroing and defending everything, I'd like to stop macroing once in a while, make some units and go do damage. My main goal is to throw my opponent off and do some sort of guaranteed damage or force unit production to even things eco wise, not to go all-in.
I'd really appreciate any ideas on builds that allow for this style of play. Also, do you think that this is even possible for every MU or that I should just stick to macro play? I think I can definitely incorporate some speedling or ling/bane attack in my standard ZvZ, but not sure about what can I do be more aggressive against P or T, without going all-in. Against FFE I already try to be aggressive around 12 min with roach/ling, what can I do before that? As for ZvT, I think there is a speedling attack against 1raxFE, but doesn't this basically just force a lift-off? Not sure this does enough damage...
Hi, i recently switched to zerg. I would like to know what's the standard when it comes to queen number that you have in a game. When i am up to 5-6 bases is it the best to have a queen at each base? Or is having more than 4 queens hurting your supply and doesn't really contribute much? Are the different matchups different in their queen numbers, i noticed zvt special queen usage, where bunch of them just hang around and creep spread, . I know for sure it's a must to have 3 for main, natural, and third but then what happens? Thanks.
On March 01 2013 20:11 Mesha wrote: Hi, i recently switched to zerg. I would like to know what's the standard when it comes to queen number that you have in a game. When i am up to 5-6 bases is it the best to have a queen at each base? Or is having more than 4 queens hurting your supply and doesn't really contribute much? Are the different matchups different in their queen numbers, i noticed zvt special queen usage, where bunch of them just hang around and creep spread, . I know for sure it's a must to have 3 for main, natural, and third but then what happens? Thanks.
You don't need a queen at each hatch when you have 5-6 hatches, because of all the larva those hatches give you. Also, in the lategame you are making more expensive units like, say, ultralisks so you can remax with a lot less larva. Larva is your most important resource in the early/mid game, but not as critical in the lategame. In super lategame, I've even seen zerg players sometimes move the queens from their bases and use them as main army, since they don't need all that larva production anymore.
Regarding ZvT, you see more queens for 2 reasons: - ZvT compositions are often very heavy on lings and you need a lot of larva for that - creep spread is considered more important in ZvT than other match-ups, so people often have a lot of queens for that as well
If you are starting, it's better to have too many than too little queens , because you will not have perfect injects and they can also help in defense against air, which is a problem for most newer zerg players.
On March 01 2013 10:50 Azoryen wrote: Hi fellow Zergs,
I usually play very macro/passive style and I'm considering playing a bit more aggressive. Instead of just macroing and defending everything, I'd like to stop macroing once in a while, make some units and go do damage. My main goal is to throw my opponent off and do some sort of guaranteed damage or force unit production to even things eco wise, not to go all-in.
I'd really appreciate any ideas on builds that allow for this style of play. Also, do you think that this is even possible for every MU or that I should just stick to macro play? I think I can definitely incorporate some speedling or ling/bane attack in my standard ZvZ, but not sure about what can I do be more aggressive against P or T, without going all-in. Against FFE I already try to be aggressive around 12 min with roach/ling, what can I do before that? As for ZvT, I think there is a speedling attack against 1raxFE, but doesn't this basically just force a lift-off? Not sure this does enough damage...
There's a lot of aggressive Zerg builds, I personally can't stand making broodlords and spines. In ZVZ there's a ton of aggressive stuff, my favorite is the 10 pool 8 ling expand, in most cases you're either ahead or equal. You just 10 pool with an 11 drone soon after then make 4 pairs of lings (8 total lings) and expand, then overlord, queen and gas while remaking those lost drones. Go cancel his expo, don't be tempted to try and kill him it can only put you behind.
In ZvT, 2,2 ling baneling muta timings are very good if his tank count is low, dropping roaches vs mech is also very good aggresive build while running around with roaces and hitting everywhere at once and borrow unborrow them. The 24 speedling after a 17 gas is ok but a little luck based unless you know there's no bunker, also 8 lings after a 15 hatch no gas is also good if you don't see him getting a bunker.
In ZvP, you can punish their greedy 3rds not so much their nexus first or forge FE, usaully by making speedlings after you've reached good saturation across your 3 bases. and dropping or muta play zvp while a little risky and frustrating at times (you kill every single probe and die to a giant maxed push) is also good if you can multitask well.
On March 01 2013 10:50 Azoryen wrote: Hi fellow Zergs,
I usually play very macro/passive style and I'm considering playing a bit more aggressive. Instead of just macroing and defending everything, I'd like to stop macroing once in a while, make some units and go do damage. My main goal is to throw my opponent off and do some sort of guaranteed damage or force unit production to even things eco wise, not to go all-in.
I'd really appreciate any ideas on builds that allow for this style of play. Also, do you think that this is even possible for every MU or that I should just stick to macro play? I think I can definitely incorporate some speedling or ling/bane attack in my standard ZvZ, but not sure about what can I do be more aggressive against P or T, without going all-in. Against FFE I already try to be aggressive around 12 min with roach/ling, what can I do before that? As for ZvT, I think there is a speedling attack against 1raxFE, but doesn't this basically just force a lift-off? Not sure this does enough damage...
ZvP: If you're opening 3-base, you can do speedling after you get 3-base saturation to try and cancel. Stephano roaches are also an option. Doing a roach/ling/infestor timing before colossus also works as well!
ZvT: Roach pressure (8+ roaches), roach/baneling w/ expansion behind it, ling aggression. Keep in mind that tanks will make these pretty difficult to pull off.
I always die to thors when I have brood lord+infestor+corruptor. I know the idea is to use fungal to keep marines away from broods (and vikings too I guess) and keep corruptors to prevent vikings from killing broods, but how do you stop thors from killing the broods? Let the broodlings come out and then back up?
Also in terms of micro, how do you keep the corruptors from flying over their anti-air?
On March 03 2013 09:43 schwza wrote: I always die to thors when I have brood lord+infestor+corruptor. I know the idea is to use fungal to keep marines away from broods (and vikings too I guess) and keep corruptors to prevent vikings from killing broods, but how do you stop thors from killing the broods? Let the broodlings come out and then back up?
Also in terms of micro, how do you keep the corruptors from flying over their anti-air?
Lategame vs mech you don't need larva injects at all. You only make corruptors broodlords and infestors. Take all the queens you have, at the very least 4, and bring them with your army. Since a Thor's shot is splash and would hit several broodlords at once but won't snipe them, transfusing broodlords and corruptors is really really really good. There's an unimaginable difference between just broodlord infestor and broodlords infestor + queens. Thor's alone can't really deal with that.
Also really important vs mech to split your broodlords so the splash hits as few as possible.
And for the corruptors, i just double click them all the time and pull them back, however sometimes it's kinda useful that the Thors shoot them instead of the broodlords. and again, splitting them is key.
Alright so I am a gold league player who was playing Zerg against a Terran, got bunker rushed, held it off, did a baneling bust and was making my drone count and unit count. All of a sudden a drop comes in, I think, I saw this coming because I scouted his base, I'll just send zerglings to it and demolish it, turns out I got owned because there was a sieged siege tank in that drop. I can't think of any ideas on how I could have countered that. Any help would be appreciated.
I'm a silver league zerg player in wol and bronze in hots. I've played 700 games so far, yet I can't see any improvement compared to months ago. It's really touching my confidence. I want to focus on 1 build each matchup.
Do you know good builds that also help me improve a lot? Not talking about cheeses because I don't think you learn a lot from that. Please also include a link if you can.
Thanks a lot!
this is a 2 base build which u can use all match ups (i still beat top diamonds with this)
On March 03 2013 13:35 Bargeman wrote: Alright so I am a gold league player who was playing Zerg against a Terran, got bunker rushed, held it off, did a baneling bust and was making my drone count and unit count. All of a sudden a drop comes in, I think, I saw this coming because I scouted his base, I'll just send zerglings to it and demolish it, turns out I got owned because there was a sieged siege tank in that drop. I can't think of any ideas on how I could have countered that. Any help would be appreciated.
You did not have enough drones and your tech was way late. The bunker rush hurt you but you were clearly ahead after that. You should have built a bunch of drones, but instead you tried to win and it ended up causing you to lose. You threw away your lead by repeatedly trying to baneling bust him, even when it was clear he was still one basing. When you hold off that early attack, you have two choices. 1.) build drones and win when lair tech comes 2.) all in and try to win now. You chose wrong. you died at 13 minutes, you should have either mutalisks or infesters by then, either would have killed those drops.
On March 01 2013 00:55 Thefan wrote: Yeah, for the immortal/archon one, i should have scouted this, i'm just not used to scout after the third base, probably i'm just too used with the colossi play. In the first game, yeah, I realized watching the replay that i suicided a lot of units at his third, and that i should have made some spines. About the roaches on the ramp, i thought he had no sentry left, in fact he had one, but hopefully he didn't react in time ! About the second game, I just had the impression that even with spines in the right place i would have died, because his chargelots just ran on my infestors, and i had no way to defend them. Do you have some replays where you defend this kind of push ? Wether the colossi or the immortals one ? One more question, is there a way to scout the usual 3 colossi push ? Cause it just looks like a normal build.
On March 01 2013 04:11 Thefan wrote: Thanks very much for your advices ! Enjoy your party !
Heya, I played against a toss which did a immortal/archon 3 base all in instead of colossi. I remember you asking for a replay of me holding this, so here it is. Please note I didn't watch the replay so I don't know if the toss is a scrub or something, but it's Master EU level so I figured it might be useful to you. I hope this helps!
On March 03 2013 09:43 schwza wrote: I always die to thors when I have brood lord+infestor+corruptor. I know the idea is to use fungal to keep marines away from broods (and vikings too I guess) and keep corruptors to prevent vikings from killing broods, but how do you stop thors from killing the broods? Let the broodlings come out and then back up?
Also in terms of micro, how do you keep the corruptors from flying over their anti-air?
If he has enough thors to kill broodlords, chances are he isn't going to waste supply making marines. The simple answer to your question is: spread your broodlords. Thors have a lot of damage capability if your broodlords are clumped together. As long as a single thor can only hit 1 broodlord, your broodlords should win the fight provided you guys are on equal supply. Also, don't underestimate the power of a ling-remax to finish off the mech army. It's quite powerful and is usually game-ending if you can whittle down the Mech army.
Hey all, i have a question regarding Glons new liquipedia guides concerning zerg. he mentions that at 6:00 you should take 2 gas geysers. now i just wanted to ask, when you do take those 2 geysers, do you right away replace the drones that would be mining minerals? as in after you get your two gas do you spend 8 larva on 8 drones ? when do you make those extra drones for gas?
Over in the pro zerg Q/A, Liquid`Snute suggested a 2-base roach build that I haven't seen before. His "mini-guide" is pasted below. Anyone have a more full explanation? It looks like it skips ling speed (at least until after 1/1 and lair). Also, I assume this is only viable if you see terran expands, right?
Grab natural. Gasless 4 queen opening. Double gas at 5 minutes. Drone up. 100 gas into lair. Start evolution chamber. Drone more. Add on 2nd evo and roach warren in front with a walloff (very important). Make more drones. Evo complete: Melee+Carapace. Optimal droning until 60 supply, then make overlords and roaches. If no cars, place 3rd asap when you've reached this stage. If hellions are present, wait for roaches and then take 3rd. If more than 4 hellions, make 2 defensive overseers in case of cloak and keep adding queens. The more hellions, the more likely that there will be more banshees.
From here you can keep massing roaches/queens to control the map and deal with the reactor hellion banshee play. You will be on 2-base for a while, but not to the extent that it will critically hinder your economy. Keep your units close to you and don't move off creep, you don't have to. Keep in mind you can also do the very popular and effective 2-base roach 'all-in style' push with this opening. Or, you can transition into infestor+drone and infestor+ling.
He probably doesn't want to chase the hellions off with lings speed. He prefers to get roach to deal with the hellions perhaps ? This whole strat help a lot against the current hellions / banshee metagate as it delay the 3rd for roaches and probably spores / queens in order to defend properly against them. That's why he want to wall off with queens + evolution chambers + roach warren (still, that's a big ramp if you want to wall off with the 3 building and 4 queens :p). Edit : btw, you can transfer your drones later on if you keep droning a lot, and with lair you can easily spread creep in your 3rd base for faster spore in case your hatch isn't finished yet.
Ok so my macro is pretty darned good as a gold league player, in this game I am Zerg vs a Terran player completely owning him in economy but theres just one thing. I cannot for the life of me defeat his army, no matter how much i try I cannot. I tried the best combo vs biomech, broodlords, cracklings, ultralisks, banelings, infestors, and he still TORE THROUGH ME. I dont understand and this is getting to be very frustrating as it is happening in most terran matchups I have.
On March 07 2013 07:42 Bargeman wrote: Ok so my macro is pretty darned good as a gold league player, in this game I am Zerg vs a Terran player completely owning him in economy but theres just one thing. I cannot for the life of me defeat his army, no matter how much i try I cannot. I tried the best combo vs biomech, broodlords, cracklings, ultralisks, banelings, infestors, and he still TORE THROUGH ME. I dont understand and this is getting to be very frustrating as it is happening in most terran matchups I have.
Watched the replay. First thing I'd say is: when you first maxed, you should have started to put pressure. Your better macro means that you got to 200/200 a lot faster than him. So why should you let him catch-up on you?
Then you really need to improve your control in big engagements. I remember one engagement in particular where you send all your lings and ultras in front and they all died before the broodlords got there (broodlords are a lot slower, remember that). Then the broodlords got there alone and were also decimated like they always do if left unprotected. Oh, and for more than once, you completely forgot about your infestors and left them burrowed in the middle of the map. Infestors make a HUGE difference. Try to have your entire army together when enter full engagements. Don't a-move from a distance because of the difference in your units speed. Also, if you go broodlords, you always need anti-air, otherwise you are hopeless against vikings. GL.
I'm trying to make sense of the opening possibilities in ZvZ. Let's say we resume builds as: 1) early pool 2) pool+gas before hatch 3) pool > hatch > gas 4) hatch first
4) loses against 1) and only slightly ahead against 2) and 3), so doesn't seem to be worth the risk 1) wins against 4) and puts you very behind against 2) and 3), so also not worth it
So my main question is: what about 2) and 3)? Which does best overall? 3) seems to be slightly more economical. But in a 2) vs 3) situation, because 2) gets much faster speed and that could be enough to balance or even put you ahead most of the times (I believe I've heard Tang say this). Also, which s better against 1) and 4)?
On March 07 2013 10:29 Azoryen wrote: I'm trying to make sense of the opening possibilities in ZvZ. Let's say we resume builds as: 1) early pool 2) pool+gas before hatch 3) pool > hatch > gas 4) hatch first
4) loses against 1) and only slightly ahead against 2) and 3), so doesn't seem to be worth the risk 1) wins against 4) and puts you very behind against 2) and 3), so also not worth it
So my main question is: what about 2) and 3)? Which does best overall? 3) seems to be slightly more economical. But in a 2) vs 3) situation, because 2) gets much faster speed and that could be enough to balance or even put you ahead most of the times (I believe I've heard Tang say this). Also, which s better against 1) and 4)?
EPT
. I know for sure it's a must to have 3 for main, natural, and third but then what happens? Thanks.
