EPTThe current metagame for example in ZvT has a lot of hellions / banshee openings, so I like to add an evolution chamber to this build.
The Zerg Help Me Thread - Page 485
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RaiZ
2813 Posts
The current metagame for example in ZvT has a lot of hellions / banshee openings, so I like to add an evolution chamber to this build. | ||
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Lucoda
Ireland183 Posts
On February 22 2013 20:07 RaiZ wrote: http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft2/Muta/Ling/Bane_(vs._Terran) This is a build I still use nowadays... Dunno why you say it's outdated when almost all the builds we use existed back 2 years agos. Only the pros can use the metagame and whatnot. The current metagame for example in ZvT has a lot of hellions / banshee openings, so I like to add an evolution chamber to this build. Patches have happened since then, the queen buff for example. That build they give on TLL is just not viable, many builds hard counter the opener. | ||
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Mavvie
Canada923 Posts
On February 23 2013 02:27 LucoxP wrote: Patches have happened since then, the queen buff for example. That build they give on TLL is just not viable, many builds hard counter the opener. Ok, go hatch first 16 pool 17 overlord into 2x queen Drone and get a 25 overlord, 2x queen again (so you go up to a total of 4) 5:00 double gas, speed->+1/+1->lair 6:00 third, SAC OVERLORD to see if he's going blueflame hellion, banshee (cloak?), or for a bio timing. Against BFH get roach warren around this time and make ~8 roaches when it finishes. Against hellion/banshee make 2 more queens and optionally a few roaches (but delay roach warren a bit to drone more). Against bio timings get a baneling nest right after 1/1, and drone to 44 but NO MORE until you make some lings to morph into banes. You want to use 3 queens, ~8-10 banes, and 10-20 speedlings to kill his army guaranteed, even with no micro. ~55 get double evo at natural to wall off, and a spine at both natural + third When evos finish start +1/+1 for lings, and get spores if he's going banshees. ~70 double gas at natural When lair finishes get a spire and roach warren + baneling nest if you haven't already, and sac an overseer to scout if he's going mech or bio or biomech. Macro hatch as soon as you can afford it, usually 8:30 or so. Delay this if you had to make lings or something to deal with a bio timing. This is just a general idea. Search for Belial's ZvT guide, he covers scouting and reacting in a lot of depth. Worth reading no matter what. edit: get 2/2 and speedbane when 1/1 finishes. DON'T constantly make mutas, you need to bank ~600/600 for these upgrades and you don't want them to be late. | ||
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FlamingForce
Netherlands701 Posts
I just did fairly random stuff in Bronze and that got me out but I feel like I actually need a shred of logic to my builds cos I keep dying to sudden void rays and whatnot, when should I send out a drone scout and what is a safe build to practice? | ||
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DarkSmurf
Argentina11 Posts
http://drop.sc/306744 | ||
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StatixEx
United Kingdom779 Posts
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Henk
Netherlands578 Posts
On February 24 2013 20:49 StatixEx wrote: if they block ur nat and ur nat 3rd . . do you build hatch at 4th or . . . . . . . If they double pylon block they're behind because it costs them too much minerals. Just use your 4 lings to kill pylon at natural and take it. Don't take your 4th. | ||
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kuebk
Poland15 Posts
Having really hard time fighting against T, no matter he is going mech or bio.  Replays: http://drop.sc/306875 http://drop.sc/306876 1st game: More static defenses should save my ass same as faster baneling nest. 2nd game: I think I should go for broodlord + infester + corruptor army, there was no need to keep so big ground army. In late game I had not enough drones. Not enough of scouting in both games. I'm a mid platinum right now, thanks. | ||
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crbox
Canada1180 Posts
On February 24 2013 20:49 StatixEx wrote: if they block ur nat and ur nat 3rd . . do you build hatch at 4th or . . . . . . . when you get pylon blocked, regardless of wether they invest in another pylon or not, you can just go 16 OL, get 4 lings out, a queen then xpo and take your third after you cleaned the pylons. I don't understand why people have the misconception that you need to rush to take your hatches when they block. They invest a lot (especially with the dual pylon block). It's meant to throw off people using tight build, but you can easily just do what I said and it won't matter. | ||
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HighLach
United States132 Posts
On February 25 2013 01:12 kuebk wrote: Could you guys help me point out what am I doing wrong in TvZ? Having really hard time fighting against T, no matter he is going mech or bio. Replays: http://drop.sc/306875 http://drop.sc/306876 1st game: More static defenses should save my ass same as faster baneling nest. 2nd game: I think I should go for broodlord + infester + corruptor army, there was no need to keep so big ground army. In late game I had not enough drones. Not enough of scouting in both games. I'm a mid platinum right now, thanks. I'll be commenting on the first game. Your first biggest mistake is not spending your money. Go back and look at around 7-8 minutes. You have over 1k minerals. You need to spend this. You could do mainly two things, take 4 gasses instead of 2, or just expand again. Your build wasn't efficiently spending all your money. This problem only gets worse, at 10 minutes your over 2k minerals. SPEND YOUR MONEY, SPEND YOUR LARVAE. If you have to many minerals, build gas geysers, build more hatcheries, you want to be hitting 0. Another thing to note, because you didn't take 4 gasses, you didn't have enough gas to start your upgrades nice and early, you start them way after your lair finishes. When he comes to attack you, he has a much greater supply than you do because you didn't spend your money earlier. So I think you should focus on spending your money and hitting your injections; especially while microing, so you actually have reinforcements. | ||
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Thefan
France20 Posts
I'm having a lot of troubles with protoss these days, especially with my transition to broodlords, it seems like all protosses make some pre-broodlords pushes, and i got destroyed by these everytime. There are 2 kinds of these, the usual one with colossi, gate units and remaining immortals, and another one, perhaps the most dangerous, with mass archons/immortals/gate units, which makes the corruptors useless as hell. Here are 2 replays, if anyone has any idea about how to counter it, i'm very aware ! http://drop.sc/307393 http://drop.sc/307394 | ||
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Azoryen
Portugal242 Posts
For example. drop.sc used to have very fresh replays, but now I only find replays from patch 1.5.4 or older. | ||
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Henk
Netherlands578 Posts
On February 28 2013 08:39 Thefan wrote: Hi everyone, EU master Zerg here. I'm having a lot of troubles with protoss these days, especially with my transition to broodlords, it seems like all protosses make some pre-broodlords pushes, and i got destroyed by these everytime. There are 2 kinds of these, the usual one with colossi, gate units and remaining immortals, and another one, perhaps the most dangerous, with mass archons/immortals/gate units, which makes the corruptors useless as hell. Here are 2 replays, if anyone has any idea about how to counter it, i'm very aware ! http://drop.sc/307393 http://drop.sc/307394 You have to scout it well - if they're making archons and immortals instead of colossi, why are you making corruptors? This push should be held really easily, because your spine wall + 15 infestors will fungal/poke it to death. Without colossi he can't touch your infestors. With colossi - get some corruptors out. Fungal with care, spam some IT. Perhaps most important is to have enough static defense - your lategame comp is slow as hell, so spore/spine your bases well. I'll take a look at a replay in a moment. | ||
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Henk
Netherlands578 Posts
On February 28 2013 08:39 Thefan wrote: Hi everyone, EU master Zerg here. I'm having a lot of troubles with protoss these days, especially with my transition to broodlords, it seems like all protosses make some pre-broodlords pushes, and i got destroyed by these everytime. There are 2 kinds of these, the usual one with colossi, gate units and remaining immortals, and another one, perhaps the most dangerous, with mass archons/immortals/gate units, which makes the corruptors useless as hell. Here are 2 replays, if anyone has any idea about how to counter it, i'm very aware ! http://drop.sc/307393 http://drop.sc/307394 Hello, I took a look at the replay of you vs the toss on cloud kingdom. (Mid master zerg EU) Minor mistake: you don't need 5 spores, one per base will do. But that's not a big deal I guess. You canceled his nexus. Great. Then you did it again- awesome. Then - huge mistake: You decided to fight his units instead of safely retreating. Why the hell did you do this? You barely killed anything, and you had to remake a ton of units instead of taking your 4th right away and going up to 80 drones. Because of losing all those units and having a late 4th, he manages to deny it with some zealots. If you didn't throw away all your units before and weren't caught out of position like this, this wouldn't have happened. Also, you didn't start any spines and didn't have any creep. You don't need a lot of creep, just some to plant spines on. It's really not safe to go to hive before having any spines, because a hive being started usually tells the protoss what's up, and when he should be pushing. He really barely had anything, some zealots and 2 colossi, but you just had way less. Oh, and at 13:00 you go up his natural ramp with all of your roaches. NEVER do that like this - one forcefield and you would've lost everything you had. I'll edit this post after I watch the second one. Game on Ohana: You already knew he was going to expand, because he was destroying the rocks. You attack a bit too late, he is already starting his gateway wall which makes it a lot harder to kill the 3rd. Anyway, I guess that's not too bad, you kill a lot of stuff and are doing alright. Good amount of drones, okay amount of infestors (more = better ofcourse) Here's what killed you - poor spine placement. You didn't have any creep spread to the left of that little choke thingy in front of your third/natural, and he just walked into that corridor instead of your heavily spined one (obviously). You placed your spines in front of the choke, which means you need more spines to cover the area. Why not place them behind it, closer to your nat/third? This way he will walk into a choke + spines, and you can fungal his entire army to death. Also spine placement at 4th base was bad, why place them around the hatchery? Place them in a line in front of it, so your infestors can chill behind them while the spines can all poke at the army. In this setup, only the front 2 spines could attack his army (if he had decided to go into the 4th base). | ||
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yOngKIN
Korea (North)656 Posts
On February 28 2013 20:30 Henk wrote: You have to scout it well - if they're making archons and immortals instead of colossi, why are you making corruptors? This push should be held really easily, because your spine wall + 15 infestors will fungal/poke it to death. Without colossi he can't touch your infestors. With colossi - get some corruptors out. Fungal with care, spam some IT. Perhaps most important is to have enough static defense - your lategame comp is slow as hell, so spore/spine your bases well. I'll take a look at a replay in a moment. The trick I do vs. Colossi is to attack from behind, especially when there it is in the open or if it is in their base, there are no canons. That way you split the Stalker dps | ||
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Thefan
France20 Posts
In the first game, yeah, I realized watching the replay that i suicided a lot of units at his third, and that i should have made some spines. About the roaches on the ramp, i thought he had no sentry left, in fact he had one, but hopefully he didn't react in time ! About the second game, I just had the impression that even with spines in the right place i would have died, because his chargelots just ran on my infestors, and i had no way to defend them. Do you have some replays where you defend this kind of push ? Wether the colossi or the immortals one ? One more question, is there a way to scout the usual 3 colossi push ? Cause it just looks like a normal build. | ||
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Henk
Netherlands578 Posts
On March 01 2013 00:55 Thefan wrote: Yeah, for the immortal/archon one, i should have scouted this, i'm just not used to scout after the third base, probably i'm just too used with the colossi play. In the first game, yeah, I realized watching the replay that i suicided a lot of units at his third, and that i should have made some spines. About the roaches on the ramp, i thought he had no sentry left, in fact he had one, but hopefully he didn't react in time ! About the second game, I just had the impression that even with spines in the right place i would have died, because his chargelots just ran on my infestors, and i had no way to defend them. Do you have some replays where you defend this kind of push ? Wether the colossi or the immortals one ? One more question, is there a way to scout the usual 3 colossi push ? Cause it just looks like a normal build. Chargelots wouldn't have attacked your infestors, because when they amove they attack what's closest - the spines. When there were no spines between the zealots and infestors, they obviously charged into those. If he manually walks his zealots through your spines to get to the infestors, fungal them. Also - the 3 colossi push IS the normal build. Assume it's coming, unless you scout otherwise. I'll take a look if I have a replay - if I do, I'll post one tomorrow (party tonight, no time to look for one now). Good luck! | ||
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Thefan
France20 Posts
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Zergonomic
Belgium6 Posts
I'm a silver league zerg player in wol and bronze in hots. I've played 700 games so far, yet I can't see any improvement compared to months ago. It's really touching my confidence. I want to focus on 1 build each matchup. Do you know good builds that also help me improve a lot? Not talking about cheeses because I don't think you learn a lot from that. Please also include a link if you can. Thanks a lot! | ||
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schwza
67 Posts
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