|
Make sure you read the OP before asking a question. Asking a question already addressed in the OP will result in moderation action. Also, please put some effort into your questions. |
On March 08 2013 20:49 Azoryen wrote:Show nested quote +On March 08 2013 19:01 Henk wrote:On March 08 2013 13:11 Mavvie wrote:
Hey everyone, I'm wondering how I should decide on whether to go mutas or infestors. This season I've just always gone 3 base muta, but I feel like I rack up a lot of unnecessary losses, or losses that could have been avoided by choosing infestors.
The way I see it is:
Mutas:
Pros:
-get to be very aggressive and mobile
-deny drops
-kill terran with a 2/2 speedbane timing
-win if your opponent forgot turrets
Cons:
-weak once terran reaches critical mass
-very late infestors
-lack of AoE other than banelings (lots of gas spent)
-takes a LOT of micro and positioning to trade remotely evenly
Infestors:
Pros:
-demolish any terran push with ease
-burrowed infestor harass is really good
-transitions really easily into hive
-can survive on a lower drone count, so more army supply
-faster 3/3 to hit some hive timings
Cons:
-passive
-zzzzzzzzzzz
-very hard to engage a sieged up tank like because the infestors die really fast to the long range siege tanks
-relies more on your opponent's lack of micro than your excelling micro
so, how should I choose between the two? I used to always go infestors, but every GSL ZvT is mutalisks so I tried them out this season and feel like it's not as strong as infestors...but surely there's a reason korean zergs don't go infestors?
thanks in advance for any clarification! I have the exact same thing. I've been playing more and more with mutas lately, but I feel like I lose a lot of games due to this, and having infestors would make things much easier. Transitioning to hive is a lot tougher, because you don't have infestors yet. Infestors bored me though, and with mutas being buffed in HotS I wanted to learn how to play with them better. I think on some maps mutas are good, and some aren't. For example, ZvT, cloud kingdom - mutas suck here. You can't do a 2/2/1 attack because they just wall off their third with supply depots and chill behind it with tanks and stuff. On maps like antiga it works a lot better though, because you can poke into their main more easily and their army will be more spread, and not behind a wall (most of the time). So yeah. If you feel like your positional play is good, and don't want to deal with drops, go mutas. Also depends on the map, like I said. Sorry to pop in as a lower league, but I'd really like to know opinion about whether it's bad to go for both mutas and infestors. What I mean is to have only a few of each type in your army. I do this and usually end my games with very nice trades. Fungal is still amazing vs T, but doesn't justify having as much infestor supply as before, more like a support spell now. And a few also discourage drops, induce turrets, etc. I love how in the end of engagements fungal can hold those medivacs for mutas to clean them up. Killing medivacs makes a big difference in that unit lost tab. Also, with both units, drops become too risky for them. Any reason why this should fail in the masters league?
That's generally a bad idea, because both units cost a lot of gas, and you will have a lackluster army with not enough infestors or mutas to scare him. Mutas will kill medivacs anyway after you win an engagement because they're faster - and with infestors you can throw down some IT and then fungal the medivacs.
If you're scared of drops, but also want infestors, I suggest to open up with ling-bling-muta and transition into infestors/BL or ultra relatively quickly. Don't make both mutas and infestors at once. Ofcourse there are games in which this works, but you shouldn't aim at doing this.
|
On March 08 2013 20:59 Henk wrote:Show nested quote +On March 08 2013 20:49 Azoryen wrote:On March 08 2013 19:01 Henk wrote:On March 08 2013 13:11 Mavvie wrote:
Hey everyone, I'm wondering how I should decide on whether to go mutas or infestors. This season I've just always gone 3 base muta, but I feel like I rack up a lot of unnecessary losses, or losses that could have been avoided by choosing infestors.
The way I see it is:
Mutas:
Pros:
-get to be very aggressive and mobile
-deny drops
-kill terran with a 2/2 speedbane timing
-win if your opponent forgot turrets
Cons:
-weak once terran reaches critical mass
-very late infestors
-lack of AoE other than banelings (lots of gas spent)
-takes a LOT of micro and positioning to trade remotely evenly
Infestors:
Pros:
-demolish any terran push with ease
-burrowed infestor harass is really good
-transitions really easily into hive
-can survive on a lower drone count, so more army supply
-faster 3/3 to hit some hive timings
Cons:
-passive
-zzzzzzzzzzz
-very hard to engage a sieged up tank like because the infestors die really fast to the long range siege tanks
-relies more on your opponent's lack of micro than your excelling micro
so, how should I choose between the two? I used to always go infestors, but every GSL ZvT is mutalisks so I tried them out this season and feel like it's not as strong as infestors...but surely there's a reason korean zergs don't go infestors?
thanks in advance for any clarification! I have the exact same thing. I've been playing more and more with mutas lately, but I feel like I lose a lot of games due to this, and having infestors would make things much easier. Transitioning to hive is a lot tougher, because you don't have infestors yet. Infestors bored me though, and with mutas being buffed in HotS I wanted to learn how to play with them better. I think on some maps mutas are good, and some aren't. For example, ZvT, cloud kingdom - mutas suck here. You can't do a 2/2/1 attack because they just wall off their third with supply depots and chill behind it with tanks and stuff. On maps like antiga it works a lot better though, because you can poke into their main more easily and their army will be more spread, and not behind a wall (most of the time). So yeah. If you feel like your positional play is good, and don't want to deal with drops, go mutas. Also depends on the map, like I said. Sorry to pop in as a lower league, but I'd really like to know opinion about whether it's bad to go for both mutas and infestors. What I mean is to have only a few of each type in your army. I do this and usually end my games with very nice trades. Fungal is still amazing vs T, but doesn't justify having as much infestor supply as before, more like a support spell now. And a few also discourage drops, induce turrets, etc. I love how in the end of engagements fungal can hold those medivacs for mutas to clean them up. Killing medivacs makes a big difference in that unit lost tab. Also, with both units, drops become too risky for them. Any reason why this should fail in the masters league? That's generally a bad idea, because both units cost a lot of gas, and you will have a lackluster army with not enough infestors or mutas to scare him. Mutas will kill medivacs anyway after you win an engagement because they're faster - and with infestors you can throw down some IT and then fungal the medivacs. If you're scared of drops, but also want infestors, I suggest to open up with ling-bling-muta and transition into infestors/BL or ultra relatively quickly. Don't make both mutas and infestors at once. Ofcourse there are games in which this works, but you shouldn't aim at doing this.
The backbone of my early and mid game army is ling/bane with good upgrades. Fungal does make these ground units a lot more effective, so I just want enough infestors to have enough energy for fungal. Why do you need a lot of infestors to scare him?
I feel zerg ground+fungal is almost OP vs terran ground, only problem is I have no AA. I could spend more gas on infestors to have ITs as AA, but why not have mutas for that role? Instead of fungal+IT to kill medivacs, why not fungal+mutas? And mutas are more effective vs drops.
Not trying to counter your arguments, just really curious about what you mean by lackluster.
|
On March 08 2013 21:55 Azoryen wrote:Show nested quote +On March 08 2013 20:59 Henk wrote:On March 08 2013 20:49 Azoryen wrote:On March 08 2013 19:01 Henk wrote:On March 08 2013 13:11 Mavvie wrote:
Hey everyone, I'm wondering how I should decide on whether to go mutas or infestors. This season I've just always gone 3 base muta, but I feel like I rack up a lot of unnecessary losses, or losses that could have been avoided by choosing infestors.
The way I see it is:
Mutas:
Pros:
-get to be very aggressive and mobile
-deny drops
-kill terran with a 2/2 speedbane timing
-win if your opponent forgot turrets
Cons:
-weak once terran reaches critical mass
-very late infestors
-lack of AoE other than banelings (lots of gas spent)
-takes a LOT of micro and positioning to trade remotely evenly
Infestors:
Pros:
-demolish any terran push with ease
-burrowed infestor harass is really good
-transitions really easily into hive
-can survive on a lower drone count, so more army supply
-faster 3/3 to hit some hive timings
Cons:
-passive
-zzzzzzzzzzz
-very hard to engage a sieged up tank like because the infestors die really fast to the long range siege tanks
-relies more on your opponent's lack of micro than your excelling micro
so, how should I choose between the two? I used to always go infestors, but every GSL ZvT is mutalisks so I tried them out this season and feel like it's not as strong as infestors...but surely there's a reason korean zergs don't go infestors?
thanks in advance for any clarification! I have the exact same thing. I've been playing more and more with mutas lately, but I feel like I lose a lot of games due to this, and having infestors would make things much easier. Transitioning to hive is a lot tougher, because you don't have infestors yet. Infestors bored me though, and with mutas being buffed in HotS I wanted to learn how to play with them better. I think on some maps mutas are good, and some aren't. For example, ZvT, cloud kingdom - mutas suck here. You can't do a 2/2/1 attack because they just wall off their third with supply depots and chill behind it with tanks and stuff. On maps like antiga it works a lot better though, because you can poke into their main more easily and their army will be more spread, and not behind a wall (most of the time). So yeah. If you feel like your positional play is good, and don't want to deal with drops, go mutas. Also depends on the map, like I said. Sorry to pop in as a lower league, but I'd really like to know opinion about whether it's bad to go for both mutas and infestors. What I mean is to have only a few of each type in your army. I do this and usually end my games with very nice trades. Fungal is still amazing vs T, but doesn't justify having as much infestor supply as before, more like a support spell now. And a few also discourage drops, induce turrets, etc. I love how in the end of engagements fungal can hold those medivacs for mutas to clean them up. Killing medivacs makes a big difference in that unit lost tab. Also, with both units, drops become too risky for them. Any reason why this should fail in the masters league? That's generally a bad idea, because both units cost a lot of gas, and you will have a lackluster army with not enough infestors or mutas to scare him. Mutas will kill medivacs anyway after you win an engagement because they're faster - and with infestors you can throw down some IT and then fungal the medivacs. If you're scared of drops, but also want infestors, I suggest to open up with ling-bling-muta and transition into infestors/BL or ultra relatively quickly. Don't make both mutas and infestors at once. Ofcourse there are games in which this works, but you shouldn't aim at doing this. The backbone of my early and mid game army is ling/bane with good upgrades. Fungal does make these ground units a lot more effective, so I just want enough infestors to have enough energy for fungal. Why do you need a lot of infestors to scare him? I feel zerg ground+fungal is almost OP vs terran ground, only problem is I have no AA. I could spend more gas on infestors to have ITs as AA, but why not have mutas for that role? Instead of fungal+IT to kill medivacs, why not fungal+mutas? And mutas are more effective vs drops. Not trying to counter your arguments, just really curious about what you mean by lackluster.
Well, because getting 4 infestors costs Something like 900 gas (150 per infestor, + infestation pit + path glands) and adding say, 5 mutas to clean up medivacs costs 700 (500 mutas, 200 spire). The start-up cost of these units is quite high for the midgame. 4 infestors really aren't -that- scary, if focusfired they die so very fast when you attack into a tankline, and having only 5 mutas will only make the terran build 2 turrets and leave 3 marines at home, it's not scaring them.
Not to mentioning microing 3 control groups can be hard in lower leagues: You have to shiftclick tanks with mutas, land fungals, and control your banelings so they don't crash into tanks.
|
On March 08 2013 19:01 Henk wrote:Show nested quote +On March 08 2013 13:11 Mavvie wrote:
Hey everyone, I'm wondering how I should decide on whether to go mutas or infestors. This season I've just always gone 3 base muta, but I feel like I rack up a lot of unnecessary losses, or losses that could have been avoided by choosing infestors.
The way I see it is:
Mutas:
Pros:
-get to be very aggressive and mobile
-deny drops
-kill terran with a 2/2 speedbane timing
-win if your opponent forgot turrets
Cons:
-weak once terran reaches critical mass
-very late infestors
-lack of AoE other than banelings (lots of gas spent)
-takes a LOT of micro and positioning to trade remotely evenly
Infestors:
Pros:
-demolish any terran push with ease
-burrowed infestor harass is really good
-transitions really easily into hive
-can survive on a lower drone count, so more army supply
-faster 3/3 to hit some hive timings
Cons:
-passive
-zzzzzzzzzzz
-very hard to engage a sieged up tank like because the infestors die really fast to the long range siege tanks
-relies more on your opponent's lack of micro than your excelling micro
so, how should I choose between the two? I used to always go infestors, but every GSL ZvT is mutalisks so I tried them out this season and feel like it's not as strong as infestors...but surely there's a reason korean zergs don't go infestors?
thanks in advance for any clarification! I have the exact same thing. I've been playing more and more with mutas lately, but I feel like I lose a lot of games due to this, and having infestors would make things much easier. Transitioning to hive is a lot tougher, because you don't have infestors yet. Infestors bored me though, and with mutas being buffed in HotS I wanted to learn how to play with them better. I think on some maps mutas are good, and some aren't. For example, ZvT, cloud kingdom - mutas suck here. You can't do a 2/2/1 attack because they just wall off their third with supply depots and chill behind it with tanks and stuff. On maps like antiga it works a lot better though, because you can poke into their main more easily and their army will be more spread, and not behind a wall (most of the time). So yeah. If you feel like your positional play is good, and don't want to deal with drops, go mutas. Also depends on the map, like I said.
Interesting...yeah, they both have pros and cons, but people used to think that infestors were way better in every way. But I don't see infestors anymore at a pro level.
I hadn't really thought of the map. It is really awkward when on cloud kingdom you max out with 40 banelings only to realize that you....can't attack him ever. I'll definitely consider maps when I play though. Infestors seem good on cloud kingdom, entombed valley, and maybe a few other maps, while mutas are good on ohana, daybreak, antiga, condemned, etc.
I guess I'll experiment around with them both against some good terrans (aka not ladder  ) and see what I like best.
|
On March 08 2013 21:55 Azoryen wrote:Show nested quote +On March 08 2013 20:59 Henk wrote:On March 08 2013 20:49 Azoryen wrote:On March 08 2013 19:01 Henk wrote:On March 08 2013 13:11 Mavvie wrote:
Hey everyone, I'm wondering how I should decide on whether to go mutas or infestors. This season I've just always gone 3 base muta, but I feel like I rack up a lot of unnecessary losses, or losses that could have been avoided by choosing infestors.
The way I see it is:
Mutas:
Pros:
-get to be very aggressive and mobile
-deny drops
-kill terran with a 2/2 speedbane timing
-win if your opponent forgot turrets
Cons:
-weak once terran reaches critical mass
-very late infestors
-lack of AoE other than banelings (lots of gas spent)
-takes a LOT of micro and positioning to trade remotely evenly
Infestors:
Pros:
-demolish any terran push with ease
-burrowed infestor harass is really good
-transitions really easily into hive
-can survive on a lower drone count, so more army supply
-faster 3/3 to hit some hive timings
Cons:
-passive
-zzzzzzzzzzz
-very hard to engage a sieged up tank like because the infestors die really fast to the long range siege tanks
-relies more on your opponent's lack of micro than your excelling micro
so, how should I choose between the two? I used to always go infestors, but every GSL ZvT is mutalisks so I tried them out this season and feel like it's not as strong as infestors...but surely there's a reason korean zergs don't go infestors?
thanks in advance for any clarification! I have the exact same thing. I've been playing more and more with mutas lately, but I feel like I lose a lot of games due to this, and having infestors would make things much easier. Transitioning to hive is a lot tougher, because you don't have infestors yet. Infestors bored me though, and with mutas being buffed in HotS I wanted to learn how to play with them better. I think on some maps mutas are good, and some aren't. For example, ZvT, cloud kingdom - mutas suck here. You can't do a 2/2/1 attack because they just wall off their third with supply depots and chill behind it with tanks and stuff. On maps like antiga it works a lot better though, because you can poke into their main more easily and their army will be more spread, and not behind a wall (most of the time). So yeah. If you feel like your positional play is good, and don't want to deal with drops, go mutas. Also depends on the map, like I said. Sorry to pop in as a lower league, but I'd really like to know opinion about whether it's bad to go for both mutas and infestors. What I mean is to have only a few of each type in your army. I do this and usually end my games with very nice trades. Fungal is still amazing vs T, but doesn't justify having as much infestor supply as before, more like a support spell now. And a few also discourage drops, induce turrets, etc. I love how in the end of engagements fungal can hold those medivacs for mutas to clean them up. Killing medivacs makes a big difference in that unit lost tab. Also, with both units, drops become too risky for them. Any reason why this should fail in the masters league? That's generally a bad idea, because both units cost a lot of gas, and you will have a lackluster army with not enough infestors or mutas to scare him. Mutas will kill medivacs anyway after you win an engagement because they're faster - and with infestors you can throw down some IT and then fungal the medivacs. If you're scared of drops, but also want infestors, I suggest to open up with ling-bling-muta and transition into infestors/BL or ultra relatively quickly. Don't make both mutas and infestors at once. Ofcourse there are games in which this works, but you shouldn't aim at doing this. The backbone of my early and mid game army is ling/bane with good upgrades. Fungal does make these ground units a lot more effective, so I just want enough infestors to have enough energy for fungal. Why do you need a lot of infestors to scare him? I feel zerg ground+fungal is almost OP vs terran ground, only problem is I have no AA. I could spend more gas on infestors to have ITs as AA, but why not have mutas for that role? Instead of fungal+IT to kill medivacs, why not fungal+mutas? And mutas are more effective vs drops. Not trying to counter your arguments, just really curious about what you mean by lackluster.
I like Henk's answer!
Opening with mutas (getting 10-12 and optionally +1) forces T to be definsive and discourage him of dropping. This allows you to take a 4th (i like to double expand) and switch to infestors. While infestation pit is building you should quite alot of gas from 8 (10) geysers for your infestors : )
Plan how to use your gas though! I like to use gas for 2/2 before infestation pit in order to get alot of infestors at the same time.
The mutas that you have left from your harrass you can just add into first ling/bling hotkey.
For me: 1 - ling/bling/muta, 2 - ling/bling (flank) 3 - infestors
When teching to Hive, you have a solid foundation to tech to either GG-lords or ultras since your melee upgrades are on par with T and youre spire is already done!
What are your thoughts on this?
|
Is the 10 roach rush strategy in zvp viable at a high level of play?
Build order
+ Show Spoiler +
14Gas
14Pool
15Overlord
15 Queen/6Lings/Zergling Speed (Remove 2 from gas until you chase probe away)
20 Expansion Hatchery
19 Drone
20 Overlord x2
20 Roach Warren (4:20-4:30)
Zergling speed finishes, cancel hatch shortly after. (5:10-5:30)
Warren finishes around 5:45, begin 10 Roaches immediately (You should be at 20 out of 42 supply, allowing you to make 10 right away)
After roaches, remove from gas and produce 1 overlord.
Continuously produce lings rallied to your roaches.
It just seems like the early gas, late expansion and lack of third should give protoss a pretty clear idea that some kind of all-in is coming. So to counter this I was thinking maybe expand at 16 as per usual, put down a 3rd at 4th minute mark and cancel both expansions when speedlings are out but it would probably cost too many minerals and delay the rush so I dunno about that.
|
On March 11 2013 21:10 Durmaz21 wrote:Is the 10 roach rush strategy in zvp viable at a high level of play? Build order + Show Spoiler +
14Gas
14Pool
15Overlord
15 Queen/6Lings/Zergling Speed (Remove 2 from gas until you chase probe away)
20 Expansion Hatchery
19 Drone
20 Overlord x2
20 Roach Warren (4:20-4:30)
Zergling speed finishes, cancel hatch shortly after. (5:10-5:30)
Warren finishes around 5:45, begin 10 Roaches immediately (You should be at 20 out of 42 supply, allowing you to make 10 right away)
After roaches, remove from gas and produce 1 overlord.
Continuously produce lings rallied to your roaches.
It just seems like the early gas, late expansion and lack of third should give protoss a pretty clear idea that some kind of all-in is coming. So to counter this I was thinking maybe expand at 16 as per usual, put down a 3rd at 4th minute mark and cancel both expansions when speedlings are out but it would probably cost too many minerals and delay the rush so I dunno about that.
I guess it could work, but it would rely on the protoss not doing his scouting well. Canceling both hatcheries is really costly like you said, and when you don't take your natural toss usually knows something is up.
Funny thing is, I was actually thinking about how viable roach rushes are vs toss, because no one does it, really. So they probably won't expect it.. Not sure. If someone else knows more, please say so.
|
Hey guys - this thread will now become about HotS!! If you have any lingering Wings of Liberty questions, to reduce digestion, PM them to me.
Do note that I will be starting HotS Zerg Guides next week - expect those within a couple of weeks. More questions/answers will be taken from the Pro Zerg QandA thread and added into here whenever I/Monk/Blade have the time.
|
On March 12 2013 02:09 Henk wrote:Show nested quote +On March 11 2013 21:10 Durmaz21 wrote:Is the 10 roach rush strategy in zvp viable at a high level of play? Build order + Show Spoiler +
14Gas
14Pool
15Overlord
15 Queen/6Lings/Zergling Speed (Remove 2 from gas until you chase probe away)
20 Expansion Hatchery
19 Drone
20 Overlord x2
20 Roach Warren (4:20-4:30)
Zergling speed finishes, cancel hatch shortly after. (5:10-5:30)
Warren finishes around 5:45, begin 10 Roaches immediately (You should be at 20 out of 42 supply, allowing you to make 10 right away)
After roaches, remove from gas and produce 1 overlord.
Continuously produce lings rallied to your roaches.
It just seems like the early gas, late expansion and lack of third should give protoss a pretty clear idea that some kind of all-in is coming. So to counter this I was thinking maybe expand at 16 as per usual, put down a 3rd at 4th minute mark and cancel both expansions when speedlings are out but it would probably cost too many minerals and delay the rush so I dunno about that. I guess it could work, but it would rely on the protoss not doing his scouting well. Canceling both hatcheries is really costly like you said, and when you don't take your natural toss usually knows something is up. Funny thing is, I was actually thinking about how viable roach rushes are vs toss, because no one does it, really. So they probably won't expect it.. Not sure. If someone else knows more, please say so.
I've seen games where Leenock did pretty much the same thing including the hatch cancel. So I would say it works at a high level, but it is still an allin where you need to do a ton of damage. Now that HotS is here with the planetary nexus, this attack might not work as well.
|
I always though that most zergs vs terran at least pro's seem when they go for spire to get at least 8-12 muta's and then transition into infestor. So yes, while 5 might not be viable, 8-12 makes them wonder whats going on.. turrets go up and the terran stays home. They don't do a push out. They don't know if those 12 muta's are about to become 20...or not. They zone there base playing defensively. It allows time for another base to kick in and/or tech to finish to get into the composition that you were looking for or to bank larvae.
|
Master level ZvT.
I do not know the proper way to take minimal damage from reapers. What build is the standard?
What is the standard in general?
I have so much trouble with drops now. Even with a bit of static defense at every base and a flock of mutas, it feels like when I go to defend one pair of medivacs, another pair of medivacs massacres a different base.
Ling/Muta/Bane seems to fall apart if they mix in hellbats.
I'm a stylistically aggressive player, but I feel like there's no real way to dictate the flow of the game right now. Reapers put you on the back foot, and by the time you're safe vs. reapers, you need to start preparing for the speed medivacs while you drone up and try to take a third. I have no idea where the window is for me to pressure terran, and even if I don't pressure terran, I have no idea how to even get through the midgame right now.
|
On March 12 2013 22:23 -Kaiser- wrote:
Master level ZvT.
I do not know the proper way to take minimal damage from reapers. What build is the standard?
What is the standard in general?
I have so much trouble with drops now. Even with a bit of static defense at every base and a flock of mutas, it feels like when I go to defend one pair of medivacs, another pair of medivacs massacres a different base.
Ling/Muta/Bane seems to fall apart if they mix in hellbats.
I'm a stylistically aggressive player, but I feel like there's no real way to dictate the flow of the game right now. Reapers put you on the back foot, and by the time you're safe vs. reapers, you need to start preparing for the speed medivacs while you drone up and try to take a third. I have no idea where the window is for me to pressure terran, and even if I don't pressure terran, I have no idea how to even get through the midgame right now.
It's literally impossible to be 100% safe vs reapers. You need to just have good micro and hope he's bad for the most part. I recommend stacking a few drones to hide the weak one, so he can't focus it down.
If I survive past the first few minutes I usually get a few mutas to beat the current broken medivacs. You can poke around but widow mines and tanks are pretty good at stopping any zerg aggression.
|
On March 13 2013 03:05 Glurkenspurk wrote:Show nested quote +On March 12 2013 22:23 -Kaiser- wrote:
Master level ZvT.
I do not know the proper way to take minimal damage from reapers. What build is the standard?
What is the standard in general?
I have so much trouble with drops now. Even with a bit of static defense at every base and a flock of mutas, it feels like when I go to defend one pair of medivacs, another pair of medivacs massacres a different base.
Ling/Muta/Bane seems to fall apart if they mix in hellbats.
I'm a stylistically aggressive player, but I feel like there's no real way to dictate the flow of the game right now. Reapers put you on the back foot, and by the time you're safe vs. reapers, you need to start preparing for the speed medivacs while you drone up and try to take a third. I have no idea where the window is for me to pressure terran, and even if I don't pressure terran, I have no idea how to even get through the midgame right now. It's literally impossible to be 100% safe vs reapers. You need to just have good micro and hope he's bad for the most part. I recommend stacking a few drones to hide the weak one, so he can't focus it down. If I survive past the first few minutes I usually get a few mutas to beat the current broken medivacs. You can poke around but widow mines and tanks are pretty good at stopping any zerg aggression.
I'll assume that the reapers aren't proxied - if the barracks gets up proxied, you might as well leave or hope for your terran friend to have shit micro (the reaper will get into your base >1 minute before a queen gets out).
That being said, let's say that the barracks isn't proxied. Once scouted, immediately throw down a gas. Your strategy versus reapers is to get 4 queens out for defense of the initial reapers, then zergling speed to take back map control. Make sure to micro queens back, drones back, ect - if you don't do this, you'll lose a lot of drones.
ZvT is in a pretty shitty spot right now - expect some sort of change soon (either in balance or in meta-game). I would suggest a good overlord spread, and try to hit mid game timings (such as 2/2 muta/ling/bane or Stephano's 1/1 roach). A timing-based ZvT will give you a much better win/loss percentage than trying to macro every game.
|
On March 13 2013 03:15 Glon wrote:Show nested quote +On March 13 2013 03:05 Glurkenspurk wrote:On March 12 2013 22:23 -Kaiser- wrote:
Master level ZvT.
I do not know the proper way to take minimal damage from reapers. What build is the standard?
What is the standard in general?
I have so much trouble with drops now. Even with a bit of static defense at every base and a flock of mutas, it feels like when I go to defend one pair of medivacs, another pair of medivacs massacres a different base.
Ling/Muta/Bane seems to fall apart if they mix in hellbats.
I'm a stylistically aggressive player, but I feel like there's no real way to dictate the flow of the game right now. Reapers put you on the back foot, and by the time you're safe vs. reapers, you need to start preparing for the speed medivacs while you drone up and try to take a third. I have no idea where the window is for me to pressure terran, and even if I don't pressure terran, I have no idea how to even get through the midgame right now. It's literally impossible to be 100% safe vs reapers. You need to just have good micro and hope he's bad for the most part. I recommend stacking a few drones to hide the weak one, so he can't focus it down. If I survive past the first few minutes I usually get a few mutas to beat the current broken medivacs. You can poke around but widow mines and tanks are pretty good at stopping any zerg aggression. I'll assume that the reapers aren't proxied - if the barracks gets up proxied, you might as well leave or hope for your terran friend to have shit micro (the reaper will get into your base >1 minute before a queen gets out). That being said, let's say that the barracks isn't proxied. Once scouted, immediately throw down a gas. Your strategy versus reapers is to get 4 queens out for defense of the initial reapers, then zergling speed to take back map control. Make sure to micro queens back, drones back, ect - if you don't do this, you'll lose a lot of drones. ZvT is in a pretty shitty spot right now - expect some sort of change soon (either in balance or in meta-game). I would suggest a good overlord spread, and try to hit mid game timings (such as 2/2 muta/ling/bane or Stephano's 1/1 roach). A timing-based ZvT will give you a much better win/loss percentage than trying to macro every game.
That's pretty much what I've been doing. The downside is when you play actual good terrans that can shit on you with the newer things, and actually macro pretty well. My games vs iaguz and Theognis were almost embarrassing. The second you leave your base you're getting hit by speed medivacs full of mines and getting your 3rd sieged.
|
Are WoL builds good for HotS?
|
wow, can someone explain to me how to deal with widow mines? it seems like at all stages of the game they're amazing against literally everything. What unit outranges them? Can anything kill them? What should my game plan be against a MMMM player? I'm having a lot of trouble with this, losing to players WAY lower ranked than me.
|
On March 13 2013 11:42 Mavvie wrote:
wow, can someone explain to me how to deal with widow mines? it seems like at all stages of the game they're amazing against literally everything. What unit outranges them? Can anything kill them? What should my game plan be against a MMMM player? I'm having a lot of trouble with this, losing to players WAY lower ranked than me.
Keep overseers with your army. When you spot widow mines, sacrifice a unit to put them on CD and then kill them. If you have enough damage, you can kill widow mines before they fire as well if you have detection. If you can't kill them, keep in mind they have a very long CD. If they explode all over your shit, they won't be back up for 40 seconds (BT).
|
I believe this question applies to both WoL and HotS:
In ZvZ, if I go roaches how can I deal with ling counterattacks? The second I move my roaches out, I have 30 lings in my third...
Similarly, if I'm going roach/infestor against muta/ling/bane, he can avoid direct confrontations and use his map control to counterattack when I leave my base. What are good ways to deal with this?
|
Russian Federation81 Posts
On March 13 2013 12:44 Azoryen wrote:
I believe this question applies to both WoL and HotS:
In ZvZ, if I go roaches how can I deal with ling counterattacks? The second I move my roaches out, I have 30 lings in my third...
Similarly, if I'm going roach/infestor against muta/ling/bane, he can avoid direct confrontations and use his map control to counterattack when I leave my base. What are good ways to deal with this?
In WoL when roach infestor was playable you'd usually leave a few banes back at your base. Assuming you're hitting his base with your main roach army, he will have his attention there and won't be able to control lings properly so a few banes will wipe most of them and the roach reinforcements can clean up on the way to the battlefield.
Keep in mind though that roach infestor style is not viable in HotS, 10 mutas will contain you on 2 bases forever and by the time you'll finally be able to take your 3rd your opponent will have a much better economy and ground army.
|
Hello guys, a little problem, i don't know how to post that.
I always played on grid. But in Hots it seems that they changed the building and unit button position (for exemple in azerty -french keyboard- roach is R instead of Q). Is there an option to go back to the Wol position in Grid (without changing all my buttons) ?
|
|
|
|
|
|
EPT
