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Make sure you read the OP before asking a question. Asking a question already addressed in the OP will result in moderation action. Also, please put some effort into your questions. |
Iminthealpha:
Im a diamond zerg player. Lets see...
Your first overlord you made was rallied to the back of your base. Float your second and third overlord over your natural and third expos to spot cannon blocks, or somewhere on the map, like behind the toss' third.
On 14 supply, make one more drone before your spawning pool. Follow this up with a 15/16 hatch/expand, and another expand shortly thereafter if the protoss FFEs. I take my third on 21 usualy. In this case, he went for a 1 base wall off, so take your natural, keep an eye on his natural expansion, and take your gas. If he does FFE, keep making drones until 3 base saturation, and double gas at 5:50.
You blindly made a spine crawler at around 5:00 Scout before doing this. If he does do a one base play and doesnt expand, spines are a must.
Lair is standard at around 6:30-7:30, 7:13 if FFE
4 Queen build is not standard vs protoss on 1 base, because of how freely they have detection. I would sacrifice the queens in favor of drones.
Always try to be 1 expansion ahead of the oponent, except in ZvZ.
Upon finishing lair, choose a tech path. (Mutas or infestors). If you're so gosu as to see no robotics bay, I would even say go for a hydra-nydus bust. If you're gosu. Its not standard though.
Zergling speed before +1/+1 roach speed. After lair is acceptable if lair is late, but it should almost alway sbe the first zerg upgrade.
When you scout a robo bay, get a spire for corrupters.
Once you get upgrades, stick to the upgraded units. Ranged, stick with roaches.
Macro hatch
If you feel confident in your abilities to faceroll the protoss, do it. That attack put you behind a lot, considering your poor macro backbone/
Injects were pretty good.
Infestor or muta tech. Use your lair.
With 3 colossus, no amoun of tier 1 units can faceroll it. Corrupters and infestors. I cannot emphasise this enough.
Take a 3rd base. I would be taking my 5th/4th by now and transitioning into BL/inf by the time you took your 3rd.
With this many ground units, set up a concave in a field. His lack of sentries would of made you have a better engagement.
Corrupters and infetors would let you win at that engagement
Dont mix in mutas to your army if you're making roaches. Muta-ling-bane is one playstyle, roach-infestor is another. You went roach ling, which isnt a playstyle that is very effective. Mix in infestors and techier units, and expan dmore.
IN A NUTSHELL:
Tech up
Roach infestor/ ling infestor or mutaling. Dont mix it in the later stages of the game. Ling-roach is ok vs a 8-12 minute push.
Pathogen glands before infestors
Concave
expand
Corrupters
Scout.
And overlord spread. Float them in spread out deadspace, unless if air opener. It can help you spot drops and incoming pushes. Put them everywhere in zvz. EVERYWHEER.
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Thanks dilemah really appreciated, I'll definitely keep in mind what you said and will play a couple more games and see what happens.
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How do I start economically greedy? Is that 3-hatch before pool? Is this a bad idea to do? Is it recommended to get pool before or between 2nd and 3rd for queens? (I am thinking from a Terran's point of view because I recently started playing random. For Terran I get a rax between my 2nd and 3rd CC for OC upgrade.
At what situations can I go 3 hatch? When I scout: ZvP FFE? ZvT 1RaxFE? ZvZ Hatchery first?
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On February 12 2013 20:17 llIH wrote:
How do I start economically greedy? Is that 3-hatch before pool? Is this a bad idea to do? Is it recommended to get pool before or between 2nd and 3rd for queens? (I am thinking from a Terran's point of view because I recently started playing random. For Terran I get a rax between my 2nd and 3rd CC for OC upgrade.
At what situations can I go 3 hatch? When I scout: ZvP FFE? ZvT 1RaxFE? ZvZ Hatchery first?
3-hatch before pool is pretty much only safe vs cc first where it's the standard reaction. Against 1 rax expand you're also find as long as he doesnt pressure blindly (he has to make that descision before he can scout your build) so it's a bit of a gamble. But if you want to play greedy you can always do that vs terran but if he 2 rax you prob will lose unless you have superior micro. Just keep in mind it is "greedy".
Against toss you can do it but then you're vulnerable to cannon rushes. If they go nexus first you're fine but you can't scout this before making the descision to go pool first or not so it's a gamble + those annoying probes can place annoying pylons.
In zvz.. just don't you will die against any decent opponent. just going hatch first is greedy enough
I'm a high platinum zerg so if you're higher then that... well take my advice with a grain of salt
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On February 12 2013 20:17 llIH wrote:
How do I start economically greedy? Is that 3-hatch before pool? Is this a bad idea to do? Is it recommended to get pool before or between 2nd and 3rd for queens? (I am thinking from a Terran's point of view because I recently started playing random. For Terran I get a rax between my 2nd and 3rd CC for OC upgrade.
At what situations can I go 3 hatch? When I scout: ZvP FFE? ZvT 1RaxFE? ZvZ Hatchery first?
If you want to go blindly greedy eco to the max. Go 16hatch 16hatch 15pool.
And you can go 3hatch before pool vs almost anything because its never safe.
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Droning. Everyone says drone drone drone drone drone. Im a plat player and subscribed to this idea like religion BUt
i only need (for 3 base) 16+16+16 = 48 and then 6 per base for gas = 18 . .66. My play has kind of become mechanical now so i build a few drones just before i place a structure down . . in fact its my own reminder/in game timer . . .but why should i drone any more after this???. i post this because some one commented on a replay of mine and said i didnt drone enough? i was fully saturated at all points in the game before i made even one single unit. why should i be droning more as im losing all the time to not having a big enough army?
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Vs Protoss, standard is pool double expand. Something like15/16/21
Playing greedy also means you have to cancel your gases. Hellion harass can screw you over in a 3 hatch before pool, because making those extra queens to deal with the hellions is good, but it really kills your economy. If he's smart, he'll follow it up with banshees.
In zvz, if you get more greedy than something like 15 hatch,16 pool and 16 gas, you will die quickly.
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On February 12 2013 21:42 StatixEx wrote:
Droning. Everyone says drone drone drone drone drone. Im a plat player and subscribed to this idea like religion BUt
i only need (for 3 base) 16+16+16 = 48 and then 6 per base for gas = 18 . .66. My play has kind of become mechanical now so i build a few drones just before i place a structure down . . in fact its my own reminder/in game timer . . .but why should i drone any more after this???. i post this because some one commented on a replay of mine and said i didnt drone enough? i was fully saturated at all points in the game before i made even one single unit. why should i be droning more as im losing all the time to not having a big enough army?
Maybe what he ment was you didnt drone fast enough. Ideal drone-hard mode will give you full saturation with 2gases at 7:10. This is almost not achieveable in normal game so lets say 7:30 is good time to have that 70 food benchmark.
All the above aplies to standart zvp open. In othermatchups it varies from the scouting you can get.
For ZvT it is generally safe to make some ling from 7:10 (as helions sould be aproaching very soon). The next timing would hit around 9:30ish .. this really depends on scouting.
ZvZ its really hard to tell when you are safe to make (only) drones and when not. This can be "solved" by you making agression and droning behind it so you know how many units oponent is making.
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On February 12 2013 21:42 StatixEx wrote:
Droning. Everyone says drone drone drone drone drone. Im a plat player and subscribed to this idea like religion BUt
i only need (for 3 base) 16+16+16 = 48 and then 6 per base for gas = 18 . .66. My play has kind of become mechanical now so i build a few drones just before i place a structure down . . in fact its my own reminder/in game timer . . .but why should i drone any more after this???. i post this because some one commented on a replay of mine and said i didnt drone enough? i was fully saturated at all points in the game before i made even one single unit. why should i be droning more as im losing all the time to not having a big enough army?
The reason you make more drones is often because of gas. You are shooting for three base mineral saturation, but will take extra bases largely for the extra gas.
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United States132 Posts
On February 12 2013 21:42 StatixEx wrote:
Droning. Everyone says drone drone drone drone drone. Im a plat player and subscribed to this idea like religion BUt
i only need (for 3 base) 16+16+16 = 48 and then 6 per base for gas = 18 . .66. My play has kind of become mechanical now so i build a few drones just before i place a structure down . . in fact its my own reminder/in game timer . . .but why should i drone any more after this???. i post this because some one commented on a replay of mine and said i didnt drone enough? i was fully saturated at all points in the game before i made even one single unit. why should i be droning more as im losing all the time to not having a big enough army?
Jinbo is right, you can only support 3 bases worth of mineral income, but beyond that, you can have something crazy as 10 gasses.
Also, if you were ever a fan of the stephano style in ZvP, you build up to 100 drones, have a massive income, and build tons of spine crawlers.
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On February 12 2013 10:09 zombie105 wrote:
I need some help, every single time this happens vs protoss. SOMEONE PLEASE HELP!
The name is newkirk district(2) under the replays page. I really am sick of dealing with this constant immortal raping whole army thing even when I was maxed out.
Someone help! Forgot the link too. Here it is
https://sites.google.com/site/zsc2replays/replauy
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In ZvZ, is ling/infestor transitioning to ling/infestor/ultra viable? I'm in Gold league and that's pretty much my go-to strategy in this matchup. I hate going roach/hydra because I find that to be boring if both of us are going that route and it'll all depend on concave and who has more intensive gas units. I also don't feel like there's much harassment options with this roach/hydra composition. However, staying alive with ling/infestor forces me to have to be on the defensive and quickly backstab and stuff like which seems more fun to me.
The thing I noticed was that the games that I do win, I feel like I could've won with a roach/hydra/infestor type army anyways. I've only beaten like maybe 1 person who played better than me. However, now I'm losing A LOT (but that's because I'm also on a crazy losing streak after running hot for like 6-7 games). Could it be that ling/ultra/infestor is just inferior to roach/hydra/infestor?
Also, how many bases should I be on when I attempt to go for that late game composition? I've actually stayed on 2 base and then I switch and grab my 3rd. Is that too little bases?
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On February 12 2013 21:56 MstrJinbo wrote:Show nested quote +On February 12 2013 21:42 StatixEx wrote:
Droning. Everyone says drone drone drone drone drone. Im a plat player and subscribed to this idea like religion BUt
i only need (for 3 base) 16+16+16 = 48 and then 6 per base for gas = 18 . .66. My play has kind of become mechanical now so i build a few drones just before i place a structure down . . in fact its my own reminder/in game timer . . .but why should i drone any more after this???. i post this because some one commented on a replay of mine and said i didnt drone enough? i was fully saturated at all points in the game before i made even one single unit. why should i be droning more as im losing all the time to not having a big enough army? The reason you make more drones is often because of gas. You are shooting for three base mineral saturation, but will take extra bases largely for the extra gas.
Oh. I thought zerg took more bases to get minerals too. I am new to Zerg - and I actually found that out now. It is indeed the gas that is necessary for the 4th and 5th. Of course minerals are needed later in the game. But I see what you meant now.
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On February 13 2013 05:44 learning88 wrote:
In ZvZ, is ling/infestor transitioning to ling/infestor/ultra viable? I'm in Gold league and that's pretty much my go-to strategy in this matchup. I hate going roach/hydra because I find that to be boring if both of us are going that route and it'll all depend on concave and who has more intensive gas units. I also don't feel like there's much harassment options with this roach/hydra composition. However, staying alive with ling/infestor forces me to have to be on the defensive and quickly backstab and stuff like which seems more fun to me.
The thing I noticed was that the games that I do win, I feel like I could've won with a roach/hydra/infestor type army anyways. I've only beaten like maybe 1 person who played better than me. However, now I'm losing A LOT (but that's because I'm also on a crazy losing streak after running hot for like 6-7 games). Could it be that ling/ultra/infestor is just inferior to roach/hydra/infestor?
Also, how many bases should I be on when I attempt to go for that late game composition? I've actually stayed on 2 base and then I switch and grab my 3rd. Is that too little bases?
Its very viable, and Adding fully upgraded Ultralisks is basically the point of going that build. Here's a really good guide on the style http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=344989
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On February 13 2013 05:44 learning88 wrote:
In ZvZ, is ling/infestor transitioning to ling/infestor/ultra viable? I'm in Gold league and that's pretty much my go-to strategy in this matchup. I hate going roach/hydra because I find that to be boring if both of us are going that route and it'll all depend on concave and who has more intensive gas units. I also don't feel like there's much harassment options with this roach/hydra composition. However, staying alive with ling/infestor forces me to have to be on the defensive and quickly backstab and stuff like which seems more fun to me.
The thing I noticed was that the games that I do win, I feel like I could've won with a roach/hydra/infestor type army anyways. I've only beaten like maybe 1 person who played better than me. However, now I'm losing A LOT (but that's because I'm also on a crazy losing streak after running hot for like 6-7 games). Could it be that ling/ultra/infestor is just inferior to roach/hydra/infestor?
Also, how many bases should I be on when I attempt to go for that late game composition? I've actually stayed on 2 base and then I switch and grab my 3rd. Is that too little bases?
Roach/infestor is a lot more stable, but you can get more fungals and infestors with teh ling style. When upgrades come into play, I would assume upgrades are crucial. Not to mention Bls would fare pretty well vs this. Just be sure to split your lings up when engaging so they dont get fungaled so intensly
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In ZvP, how do you deal with stargate opening into 2 base all in ? It denies any scout you could have, it's so hard to tell if the protoss is going to expand or to all in, i'm not sure how to react...
Thanks in advance
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How do I defend against cheese as zerg without hurting myself too bad economicly? Should I still expand right away but just add some spine crawlers too?
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On February 13 2013 08:12 Insoleet wrote:
In ZvP, how do you deal with stargate opening into 2 base all in ? It denies any scout you could have, it's so hard to tell if the protoss is going to expand or to all in, i'm not sure how to react...
Thanks in advance
Always make units to pressure the Protoss if you scout the SG early enough its good idea to get ling speed and make bunch of lings. This way you can deny possible greedy third or see he doesnt take any and masses up 2base in wich case you want be making roaches.
On February 13 2013 08:36 Koltronn wrote:
How do I defend against cheese as zerg without hurting myself too bad economicly? Should I still expand right away but just add some spine crawlers too?
What cheese? what matchup?
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On February 13 2013 09:55 Veriol wrote:Show nested quote +On February 13 2013 08:12 Insoleet wrote:
In ZvP, how do you deal with stargate opening into 2 base all in ? It denies any scout you could have, it's so hard to tell if the protoss is going to expand or to all in, i'm not sure how to react...
Thanks in advance Always make units to pressure the Protoss if you scout the SG early enough its good idea to get ling speed and make bunch of lings. This way you can deny possible greedy third or see he doesnt take any and masses up 2base in wich case you want be making roaches.
My biggest problem is that I usually build infestors in reaction to SG. But if they all in me, all my energy is burned on the phoenix/voids, and I don't have enough gas to build roaches and then I can't hold the all in.
I wonder if I should just massing roaches without any anti air against sg and build infestors only if I'm sure he isn't going to all in me...
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EPT
