• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EDT 06:44
CEST 12:44
KST 19:44
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
RSL Season 1 - Final Week5[ASL19] Finals Recap: Standing Tall10HomeStory Cup 27 - Info & Preview18Classic wins Code S Season 2 (2025)16Code S RO4 & Finals Preview: herO, Rogue, Classic, GuMiho0
Community News
Firefly given lifetime ban by ESIC following match-fixing investigation17$25,000 Streamerzone StarCraft Pro Series announced7Weekly Cups (June 30 - July 6): Classic Doubles6[BSL20] Non-Korean Championship 4x BSL + 4x China10Flash Announces Hiatus From ASL70
StarCraft 2
General
RSL Revival patreon money discussion thread Esports World Cup 2025 - Final Player Roster Server Blocker RSL Season 1 - Final Week The GOAT ranking of GOAT rankings
Tourneys
RSL: Revival, a new crowdfunded tournament series $25,000 Streamerzone StarCraft Pro Series announced FEL Cracov 2025 (July 27) - $8000 live event Sparkling Tuna Cup - Weekly Open Tournament WardiTV Mondays
Strategy
How did i lose this ZvP, whats the proper response Simple Questions Simple Answers
Custom Maps
https://www.facebook.com/SAINTSKINVitaminCSerumCan
External Content
Mutation # 481 Fear and Lava Mutation # 480 Moths to the Flame Mutation # 479 Worn Out Welcome Mutation # 478 Instant Karma
Brood War
General
Script to open stream directly using middle click A cwal.gg Extension - Easily keep track of anyone BW General Discussion ASL20 Preliminary Maps BGH Auto Balance -> http://bghmmr.eu/
Tourneys
[Megathread] Daily Proleagues Small VOD Thread 2.0 Last Minute Live-Report Thread Resource! [BSL20] Non-Korean Championship 4x BSL + 4x China
Strategy
Simple Questions, Simple Answers I am doing this better than progamers do.
Other Games
General Games
Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread Path of Exile CCLP - Command & Conquer League Project The PlayStation 5 Nintendo Switch Thread
Dota 2
Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion
League of Legends
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Heroes of StarCraft mini-set
TL Mafia
TL Mafia Community Thread Vanilla Mini Mafia
Community
General
US Politics Mega-thread Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine Russo-Ukrainian War Thread The Accidental Video Game Porn Archive Stop Killing Games - European Citizens Initiative
Fan Clubs
SKT1 Classic Fan Club! Maru Fan Club
Media & Entertainment
Movie Discussion! [Manga] One Piece Anime Discussion Thread [\m/] Heavy Metal Thread
Sports
2024 - 2025 Football Thread Formula 1 Discussion NBA General Discussion TeamLiquid Health and Fitness Initiative For 2023 NHL Playoffs 2024
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread
TL Community
The Automated Ban List
Blogs
Men Take Risks, Women Win Ga…
TrAiDoS
momentary artworks from des…
tankgirl
from making sc maps to makin…
Husyelt
StarCraft improvement
iopq
Trip to the Zoo
micronesia
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 715 users

The Zerg Help Me Thread - Page 480

Forum Index > StarCraft 2 Strategy
Post a Reply
Prev 1 478 479 480 481 482 489 Next
Make sure you read the OP before asking a question. Asking a question already addressed in the OP will result in moderation action. Also, please put some effort into your questions.
Turbo.Tactics
Profile Joined April 2010
Germany675 Posts
February 08 2013 19:07 GMT
#9581
I'm scratching my head here since no Zerg on Eu builds a single drone anymore. I'm getting overrun by massive amounts of lings every game. I could really need a safe opening for banelings cuz I either get them too early or too late and get overrun by pure ling again. Roach openings on 1 base dont seem to cut it either cuz im getting behind waaay too hard. I just need a standard zvz opening capable to deal with this. I tried 14 speedling opening but again... the second i build a single drone I'm kinda dead, or at least it feels like I do.
Zerg - because Browders sons hate 'em
Mavvie
Profile Blog Joined May 2012
Canada923 Posts
February 08 2013 20:37 GMT
#9582
On February 08 2013 22:22 Natalya wrote:
Show nested quote +
On February 08 2013 09:06 Mavvie wrote:
If I scout hellion/cloakshee, is it worth getting lair before 1/1? His upgrades will be later too, and the earlier overseers seem worth it to me. I like to be able to fight the banshees head on instead of Turtling in my mineral line with spores.

Later upgrades in response to his cloak + later upgrades, faster detection so that queen/ling can fight the hellion/cloakshee straight up....worth it?


Depends on your build in general. Do you take a 3rd before gas? I take a third before any gas as and with my gas I go lingspeed lair double ups. If you go lair after double ups with gasless third into 4 gas at the same time, your overseer is too late for the cloack.

Show nested quote +
On February 08 2013 13:20 hyrenfreak wrote:
im just starting playing zerg and i know its good to keybind like bases for 5-8 for example but does someone have a better way to keybind it to add stuff to those and to select those control groups for the higher numbers. Having to click the actual numbers on my keyboard feels really wierd to me.


You can have all your hatcheries on a single hotkey. No reason not to do that, unless you're taking a hidden base in a corner of the map where you only wants drones to be made. If you have hatcheries on different hotkeys to inject, there are better method to do that in my opinion. You can use camera hotkeys (you have all queens on one hotkey, you use camera hotkey one on your main, you inject, then hit camera 2 on your nat, you inject, etc.). You could also inject on minimap (have all queens on one hotkey, hold inject hotkey and click on every hatchery on minimap). There's also the backspace method (if you search "backspace method injection" or something you should find it)



Show nested quote +
On February 08 2013 14:29 Mavvie wrote:
On February 08 2013 11:46 Reki wrote:
On February 08 2013 09:06 Mavvie wrote:
If I scout hellion/cloakshee, is it worth getting lair before 1/1? His upgrades will be later too, and the earlier overseers seem worth it to me. I like to be able to fight the banshees head on instead of Turtling in my mineral line with spores.

Later upgrades in response to his cloak + later upgrades, faster detection so that queen/ling can fight the hellion/cloakshee straight up....worth it?

Wait a second. I thought blind spores, lair after ling speed then overseer asap if you scouted 1-1 or 1-1-1 at 6:00 is standard procedure? I used to get my lair after att and carapace upgrades but banshees can troll my drones if I only have 1 spore per mineral line.


Yeah, I get spores. But for example, 8 hellions and a banshee can break down the natural wall. So you need your queens between your natural+third to defend/transfuse both. But cloaked banshees+hellions can kill said 4 queens and I don't know how to put a spore crawler between my nat+third...was just wondering if it's viable to get the lair before 1/1, because when Terran invests in cloak he delays his own upgrades so it seems pretty even.

Was just food for thought after getting destroyed by cloaked banshees that I scouted. Yes, I had spores in each mineral line, but hellions don't give a fuck

This happens: http://imgur.com/w2G456a cloaked banshees force me to retreat to the spore/spine at my third. So then

This happens: http://imgur.com/ProK7PU can't transfuse in time, he gets through wall, GG.

If I went lair before upgrades it would've finished well in time (note lair is ALMOST done, despite delaying it 250 gas for 1/1. imagine if i got it right after speed) and I would've not lost the game right there.



If terran has more than 4 helions you should have roaches or banes. Or god-like ling micro (which with all due respect i wouldnt risk it). If you see banshees, adding a 5th queen (so 3 grouped up for creep, 2 for inject) does not hurt either. And eventually a 6th at your 3rd. However, I dont know if you take a fast third like it's standard in zvt, but if you did, taking a couple drone loss doesnt really matter, you will be still be at least even with a terran 3 oc. A blind spore at your main is not a bad idea as you cant always scout terran. So the spore in your main zone out banshees in your main and your group of 2-3 queens should be out in the open protecting your natural, third and zoning out helions as well.

Thanks for the reply. I do a 36 third -> double gas, slowly going up to 6 queens in time for the real hellion/banshee aggression. I guess the answer is that yes, it's good to go lair after speed against cloak.

Do I really need roaches against only 8 hellions? I mean 4-5 queens w/ transfuse, a spine and detection easily beats 8 hellions and a banshee or two, but I guess roaches force the hellions out which is good.
Getting back into sc2 O_o
FakePseudo
Profile Joined January 2012
Belgium716 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-02-08 22:03:28
February 08 2013 21:55 GMT
#9583
On February 09 2013 04:07 Turbo.Tactics wrote:
I'm scratching my head here since no Zerg on Eu builds a single drone anymore. I'm getting overrun by massive amounts of lings every game. I could really need a safe opening for banelings cuz I either get them too early or too late and get overrun by pure ling again. Roach openings on 1 base dont seem to cut it either cuz im getting behind waaay too hard. I just need a standard zvz opening capable to deal with this. I tried 14 speedling opening but again... the second i build a single drone I'm kinda dead, or at least it feels like I do.


What's your league, and please describe your current BO and the BO your struggling against.

If I understand correctly, you're talking about one base lings allins which shouldnt be too hard to repell with good scouting and reaction, and some decent execution regarding banelings. In the current state of ZvZ, the only mass ling strat which hasn't been totally figured out by most players is the two base mid/high econ mass ling (eventually banes) attack. Save for this, there's an appropriate reaction that should put you way ahead for any earlier attack. In case of something like a 10 pool 12 gas or 13/13 or any other variant, the best thing you can do is get your gas asap and skip speed to get an early bane nest.

replays: (note that my execution is not even close to good although I manage to stay even/ahead from a hatch first opener). Low Master Level (Well I'm showing off, I just got promoted but didn't play enough><)
http://drop.sc/303169
http://drop.sc/303170

I am the 0.0007% /forum/viewpost.php?post_id=17208334|| Big Black Women Vocals Is Like Porn to my Ears ||San Antonio Spurs|Boston Celtics||#1EZToss Hater;
Natalya
Profile Joined December 2011
Belgium287 Posts
February 08 2013 23:22 GMT
#9584
On February 09 2013 05:37 Mavvie wrote:
Show nested quote +
On February 08 2013 22:22 Natalya wrote:
On February 08 2013 09:06 Mavvie wrote:
If I scout hellion/cloakshee, is it worth getting lair before 1/1? His upgrades will be later too, and the earlier overseers seem worth it to me. I like to be able to fight the banshees head on instead of Turtling in my mineral line with spores.

Later upgrades in response to his cloak + later upgrades, faster detection so that queen/ling can fight the hellion/cloakshee straight up....worth it?


Depends on your build in general. Do you take a 3rd before gas? I take a third before any gas as and with my gas I go lingspeed lair double ups. If you go lair after double ups with gasless third into 4 gas at the same time, your overseer is too late for the cloack.

On February 08 2013 13:20 hyrenfreak wrote:
im just starting playing zerg and i know its good to keybind like bases for 5-8 for example but does someone have a better way to keybind it to add stuff to those and to select those control groups for the higher numbers. Having to click the actual numbers on my keyboard feels really wierd to me.


You can have all your hatcheries on a single hotkey. No reason not to do that, unless you're taking a hidden base in a corner of the map where you only wants drones to be made. If you have hatcheries on different hotkeys to inject, there are better method to do that in my opinion. You can use camera hotkeys (you have all queens on one hotkey, you use camera hotkey one on your main, you inject, then hit camera 2 on your nat, you inject, etc.). You could also inject on minimap (have all queens on one hotkey, hold inject hotkey and click on every hatchery on minimap). There's also the backspace method (if you search "backspace method injection" or something you should find it)



On February 08 2013 14:29 Mavvie wrote:
On February 08 2013 11:46 Reki wrote:
On February 08 2013 09:06 Mavvie wrote:
If I scout hellion/cloakshee, is it worth getting lair before 1/1? His upgrades will be later too, and the earlier overseers seem worth it to me. I like to be able to fight the banshees head on instead of Turtling in my mineral line with spores.

Later upgrades in response to his cloak + later upgrades, faster detection so that queen/ling can fight the hellion/cloakshee straight up....worth it?

Wait a second. I thought blind spores, lair after ling speed then overseer asap if you scouted 1-1 or 1-1-1 at 6:00 is standard procedure? I used to get my lair after att and carapace upgrades but banshees can troll my drones if I only have 1 spore per mineral line.


Yeah, I get spores. But for example, 8 hellions and a banshee can break down the natural wall. So you need your queens between your natural+third to defend/transfuse both. But cloaked banshees+hellions can kill said 4 queens and I don't know how to put a spore crawler between my nat+third...was just wondering if it's viable to get the lair before 1/1, because when Terran invests in cloak he delays his own upgrades so it seems pretty even.

Was just food for thought after getting destroyed by cloaked banshees that I scouted. Yes, I had spores in each mineral line, but hellions don't give a fuck

This happens: http://imgur.com/w2G456a cloaked banshees force me to retreat to the spore/spine at my third. So then

This happens: http://imgur.com/ProK7PU can't transfuse in time, he gets through wall, GG.

If I went lair before upgrades it would've finished well in time (note lair is ALMOST done, despite delaying it 250 gas for 1/1. imagine if i got it right after speed) and I would've not lost the game right there.



If terran has more than 4 helions you should have roaches or banes. Or god-like ling micro (which with all due respect i wouldnt risk it). If you see banshees, adding a 5th queen (so 3 grouped up for creep, 2 for inject) does not hurt either. And eventually a 6th at your 3rd. However, I dont know if you take a fast third like it's standard in zvt, but if you did, taking a couple drone loss doesnt really matter, you will be still be at least even with a terran 3 oc. A blind spore at your main is not a bad idea as you cant always scout terran. So the spore in your main zone out banshees in your main and your group of 2-3 queens should be out in the open protecting your natural, third and zoning out helions as well.

Thanks for the reply. I do a 36 third -> double gas, slowly going up to 6 queens in time for the real hellion/banshee aggression. I guess the answer is that yes, it's good to go lair after speed against cloak.

Do I really need roaches against only 8 hellions? I mean 4-5 queens w/ transfuse, a spine and detection easily beats 8 hellions and a banshee or two, but I guess roaches force the hellions out which is good.


8 helions and 2 cloacked banshee will kill your 3 queens if they are out on the field (3 queens injecting 3 queens creeping) unless you keep energy for a transfuse. You're being so greedy with gasless third anyway that those few roaches are not really slowing down your eco too much and they're a good safety measure against most of the stuff terran can throw at you. It's hard to scout terran before overseers and those few roaches + a few queens will basically hold anything in the early game. I mean roaches are good against hellions, are ok against marines, they can make sure the terran cant do stuff like draw your queens to ur main with 2 cloacked banshee then run into your third with helions etc etc. I think it's a small price to pay to become 100% bullet proof.

Glon told me once Starcraft is a game of statistic, and if those roaches may not be ideal against a terran going pure macro and no harass, they'll decrease the amount of damage you take early game so drastically that all in all you win more games by making them as a no brainer than by not making them. In my experience at least. The thing is, late game zvt is so zerg favored that being safe and greedy early game is all you need to do.
learning88
Profile Joined April 2005
United States160 Posts
February 09 2013 06:18 GMT
#9585
In ZvZ, is ling/infestor transitioning to ling/infestor/ultra viable? I'm in Gold league and that's pretty much my go-to strategy in this matchup. I hate going roach/hydra because I find that to be boring if both of us are going that route and it'll all depend on concave and who has more intensive gas units. I also don't feel like there's much harassment options with this roach/hydra composition. However, staying alive with ling/infestor forces me to have to be on the defensive and quickly backstab and stuff like which seems more fun to me.

The thing I noticed was that the games that I do win, I feel like I could've won with a roach/hydra/infestor type army anyways. I've only beaten like maybe 1 person who played better than me. However, now I'm losing A LOT (but that's because I'm also on a crazy losing streak after running hot for like 6-7 games). Could it be that ling/ultra/infestor is just inferior to roach/hydra/infestor?

Also, how many bases should I be on when I attempt to go for that late game composition? I've actually stayed on 2 base and then I switch and grab my 3rd. Is that too little bases?
Turbo.Tactics
Profile Joined April 2010
Germany675 Posts
February 09 2013 12:51 GMT
#9586
On February 09 2013 06:55 FakePseudo wrote:
Show nested quote +
On February 09 2013 04:07 Turbo.Tactics wrote:
I'm scratching my head here since no Zerg on Eu builds a single drone anymore. I'm getting overrun by massive amounts of lings every game. I could really need a safe opening for banelings cuz I either get them too early or too late and get overrun by pure ling again. Roach openings on 1 base dont seem to cut it either cuz im getting behind waaay too hard. I just need a standard zvz opening capable to deal with this. I tried 14 speedling opening but again... the second i build a single drone I'm kinda dead, or at least it feels like I do.


What's your league, and please describe your current BO and the BO your struggling against.

If I understand correctly, you're talking about one base lings allins which shouldnt be too hard to repell with good scouting and reaction, and some decent execution regarding banelings. In the current state of ZvZ, the only mass ling strat which hasn't been totally figured out by most players is the two base mid/high econ mass ling (eventually banes) attack. Save for this, there's an appropriate reaction that should put you way ahead for any earlier attack. In case of something like a 10 pool 12 gas or 13/13 or any other variant, the best thing you can do is get your gas asap and skip speed to get an early bane nest.

replays: (note that my execution is not even close to good although I manage to stay even/ahead from a hatch first opener). Low Master Level (Well I'm showing off, I just got promoted but didn't play enough><)
http://drop.sc/303169
http://drop.sc/303170



I'm currently mid diamond and the BO I'm describing is usually an early pool build with no expo but pure ling pumping. Thing is even if they take an expo and I see it, they still keep producing lings. I've opened with a 14pool 14 gas opening and usually get my hatch denied by massive amounts of lings. Then I'll get an inbase hatch and get the banes asaply... thing is you can't drone and it comes down to banewars or saving your banes to get some good hits on the actual mass of lings. I'm having trouble expanding cuz of runbys and the sheer amount of lings. Roach transitions are usually too late or I fail 1 or 2 baneling explosions and again... die to mass ling.

Banelingwars have never been my problem but this pure ling style tilts me too hard because in my head i keep saying to myself: he can't be producing more lings, he has to drone now. I will try to get a decent replay of this if it keeps happening. Maybe it's just me playing bad. In any way thanks for the fast response!
Zerg - because Browders sons hate 'em
Henk
Profile Joined March 2012
Netherlands578 Posts
February 09 2013 14:46 GMT
#9587
On February 09 2013 21:51 Turbo.Tactics wrote:
Show nested quote +
On February 09 2013 06:55 FakePseudo wrote:
On February 09 2013 04:07 Turbo.Tactics wrote:
I'm scratching my head here since no Zerg on Eu builds a single drone anymore. I'm getting overrun by massive amounts of lings every game. I could really need a safe opening for banelings cuz I either get them too early or too late and get overrun by pure ling again. Roach openings on 1 base dont seem to cut it either cuz im getting behind waaay too hard. I just need a standard zvz opening capable to deal with this. I tried 14 speedling opening but again... the second i build a single drone I'm kinda dead, or at least it feels like I do.


What's your league, and please describe your current BO and the BO your struggling against.

If I understand correctly, you're talking about one base lings allins which shouldnt be too hard to repell with good scouting and reaction, and some decent execution regarding banelings. In the current state of ZvZ, the only mass ling strat which hasn't been totally figured out by most players is the two base mid/high econ mass ling (eventually banes) attack. Save for this, there's an appropriate reaction that should put you way ahead for any earlier attack. In case of something like a 10 pool 12 gas or 13/13 or any other variant, the best thing you can do is get your gas asap and skip speed to get an early bane nest.

replays: (note that my execution is not even close to good although I manage to stay even/ahead from a hatch first opener). Low Master Level (Well I'm showing off, I just got promoted but didn't play enough><)
http://drop.sc/303169
http://drop.sc/303170



I'm currently mid diamond and the BO I'm describing is usually an early pool build with no expo but pure ling pumping. Thing is even if they take an expo and I see it, they still keep producing lings. I've opened with a 14pool 14 gas opening and usually get my hatch denied by massive amounts of lings. Then I'll get an inbase hatch and get the banes asaply... thing is you can't drone and it comes down to banewars or saving your banes to get some good hits on the actual mass of lings. I'm having trouble expanding cuz of runbys and the sheer amount of lings. Roach transitions are usually too late or I fail 1 or 2 baneling explosions and again... die to mass ling.

Banelingwars have never been my problem but this pure ling style tilts me too hard because in my head i keep saying to myself: he can't be producing more lings, he has to drone now. I will try to get a decent replay of this if it keeps happening. Maybe it's just me playing bad. In any way thanks for the fast response!


Just use 15P 16H 17G and get a baneling nest with your first 50 gas. With a spine at your natural and 2 queens blocking the ramp, and with banes morphing in you should be 100% safe unless you throw away your banelings for free. Keep an overlord at his natural (out of queen range ofc) and from time to time, check is he starts making drones. Also have an overlord near the exit of his base so you can see if he's rallying more lings. If he's on one base and you're on 2 there's no need to be greedy, you're already ahead due to having 2 bases. Just focus on holding off his attacks.
Dynamaxion
Profile Joined August 2011
United States31 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-02-09 17:25:36
February 09 2013 17:25 GMT
#9588
I'm seriously, seriously struggling with trading efficientlyagainst late-game Terran armies since the infestor nerf. Thor, Hellion, Siege Tank and Viking army max to be specific. It seems that whenever I attack with the brood lords, the thor and viking start to kill them. If I then try to fungal with my infestors or rush with my lings, siege tanks and hellions deal with them. Here is an example of a game where I was able to remax about 9 times, having far superior macro to the Terran player all game. I simply do not know what to do or how to micro end-game zerg armies since fungal has no range anymore. I am a diamond Zerg

http://drop.sc/303341
Henk
Profile Joined March 2012
Netherlands578 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-02-09 17:47:52
February 09 2013 17:47 GMT
#9589
On February 10 2013 02:25 Dynamaxion wrote:
I'm seriously, seriously struggling with trading efficientlyagainst late-game Terran armies since the infestor nerf. Thor, Hellion, Siege Tank and Viking army max to be specific. It seems that whenever I attack with the brood lords, the thor and viking start to kill them. If I then try to fungal with my infestors or rush with my lings, siege tanks and hellions deal with them. Here is an example of a game where I was able to remax about 9 times, having far superior macro to the Terran player all game. I simply do not know what to do or how to micro end-game zerg armies since fungal has no range anymore. I am a diamond Zerg

http://drop.sc/303341


You were so ahead the whole game, because he didn't know how to produce SCVs. Honestly you took WAY too much damage from those hellions and banshees.

Okay anyway about your lategame engagements: You had way too many infestors. You would want something like 8 broods, 8-10 infestors, a few queens and the rest corruptors. You keep making lings with it, there's no need for that. The more thors he has, the more broodlords you have to add. Every single time you went in with too many broods, your corruptors died due to you clumping them up vs thor shots or simply having too few, and the vikings killed your slow-ass broods while you tried to fall back. Also, you still had the game won, if you simply didn't allow him to get a 4th base. He somehow, without you knowing anything about it, took a 4th, turned it into a planetary and fully saturated it. Burrow lings in all expansions, poop creep with overlords to be a general pain in the ass and simply don't let him get it up. Also, you should've tech switched a few times. One of zerg's strength is being able to instantly switch lategame armies with enough money in the bank. He was only making vikings and thors; pump out 10 ultras and 80 lings and suddenly his army is dead and he has a ton of useless vikings.

So generally; take less hellion/banshee damage (although that wasn't what killed you), and don't attack unless you're sure you can win, because broodlords can't retreat. And use your map control - don't let him get expansions without you knowing and denying them.
Dynamaxion
Profile Joined August 2011
United States31 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-02-09 18:02:09
February 09 2013 17:57 GMT
#9590
On February 10 2013 02:47 Henk wrote:
Show nested quote +
On February 10 2013 02:25 Dynamaxion wrote:
I'm seriously, seriously struggling with trading efficientlyagainst late-game Terran armies since the infestor nerf. Thor, Hellion, Siege Tank and Viking army max to be specific. It seems that whenever I attack with the brood lords, the thor and viking start to kill them. If I then try to fungal with my infestors or rush with my lings, siege tanks and hellions deal with them. Here is an example of a game where I was able to remax about 9 times, having far superior macro to the Terran player all game. I simply do not know what to do or how to micro end-game zerg armies since fungal has no range anymore. I am a diamond Zerg

http://drop.sc/303341


You were so ahead the whole game, because he didn't know how to produce SCVs. Honestly you took WAY too much damage from those hellions and banshees.

Okay anyway about your lategame engagements: You had way too many infestors. You would want something like 8 broods, 8-10 infestors, a few queens and the rest corruptors. You keep making lings with it, there's no need for that. The more thors he has, the more broodlords you have to add. Every single time you went in with too many broods, your corruptors died due to you clumping them up vs thor shots or simply having too few, and the vikings killed your slow-ass broods while you tried to fall back. Also, you still had the game won, if you simply didn't allow him to get a 4th base. He somehow, without you knowing anything about it, took a 4th, turned it into a planetary and fully saturated it. Burrow lings in all expansions, poop creep with overlords to be a general pain in the ass and simply don't let him get it up. Also, you should've tech switched a few times. One of zerg's strength is being able to instantly switch lategame armies with enough money in the bank. He was only making vikings and thors; pump out 10 ultras and 80 lings and suddenly his army is dead and he has a ton of useless vikings.

Also, hellion siege tank thor would absolutely shit on ultralisks and zerglings.
So generally; take less hellion/banshee damage (although that wasn't what killed you), and don't attack unless you're sure you can win, because broodlords can't retreat. And use your map control - don't let him get expansions without you knowing and denying them.


I had two spores at each base and 5 queens to deal with the hellion banshee. I don't know what more I can possibly do.

How does one avoid "clumping up" corruptors vs thor shots when that's literally the only possible way to engage the vikings? The Blords attack the thors, the vikings come in and attack the Blords, and you can either retreat the brood lords or attack with corruptors. As soon as you send the corruptors in the thor massacre them. If you try to fungal the vikings siege tanks anally rape your infestors. What you said sounds great on paper but I don't understand how its possible in an actual game. And it's hard to deny his 4th base if he will send you back to 60 supply when you try to stop him.

Also, hellion siege tank thor would absolutely shit on ultralisks and zerglings.

What are the infestors there for? Now that infested terrans cant be upgraded they are literally pointless to make against 3-3 mech, and you can't fungal vikings because your infestors will die to siege hits. What are you supposed to do with them?
Henk
Profile Joined March 2012
Netherlands578 Posts
February 09 2013 18:52 GMT
#9591
On February 10 2013 02:57 Dynamaxion wrote:
Show nested quote +
On February 10 2013 02:47 Henk wrote:
On February 10 2013 02:25 Dynamaxion wrote:
I'm seriously, seriously struggling with trading efficientlyagainst late-game Terran armies since the infestor nerf. Thor, Hellion, Siege Tank and Viking army max to be specific. It seems that whenever I attack with the brood lords, the thor and viking start to kill them. If I then try to fungal with my infestors or rush with my lings, siege tanks and hellions deal with them. Here is an example of a game where I was able to remax about 9 times, having far superior macro to the Terran player all game. I simply do not know what to do or how to micro end-game zerg armies since fungal has no range anymore. I am a diamond Zerg

http://drop.sc/303341


You were so ahead the whole game, because he didn't know how to produce SCVs. Honestly you took WAY too much damage from those hellions and banshees.

Okay anyway about your lategame engagements: You had way too many infestors. You would want something like 8 broods, 8-10 infestors, a few queens and the rest corruptors. You keep making lings with it, there's no need for that. The more thors he has, the more broodlords you have to add. Every single time you went in with too many broods, your corruptors died due to you clumping them up vs thor shots or simply having too few, and the vikings killed your slow-ass broods while you tried to fall back. Also, you still had the game won, if you simply didn't allow him to get a 4th base. He somehow, without you knowing anything about it, took a 4th, turned it into a planetary and fully saturated it. Burrow lings in all expansions, poop creep with overlords to be a general pain in the ass and simply don't let him get it up. Also, you should've tech switched a few times. One of zerg's strength is being able to instantly switch lategame armies with enough money in the bank. He was only making vikings and thors; pump out 10 ultras and 80 lings and suddenly his army is dead and he has a ton of useless vikings.

Also, hellion siege tank thor would absolutely shit on ultralisks and zerglings.
So generally; take less hellion/banshee damage (although that wasn't what killed you), and don't attack unless you're sure you can win, because broodlords can't retreat. And use your map control - don't let him get expansions without you knowing and denying them.


I had two spores at each base and 5 queens to deal with the hellion banshee. I don't know what more I can possibly do.

How does one avoid "clumping up" corruptors vs thor shots when that's literally the only possible way to engage the vikings? The Blords attack the thors, the vikings come in and attack the Blords, and you can either retreat the brood lords or attack with corruptors. As soon as you send the corruptors in the thor massacre them. If you try to fungal the vikings siege tanks anally rape your infestors. What you said sounds great on paper but I don't understand how its possible in an actual game. And it's hard to deny his 4th base if he will send you back to 60 supply when you try to stop him.

Also, hellion siege tank thor would absolutely shit on ultralisks and zerglings.

What are the infestors there for? Now that infested terrans cant be upgraded they are literally pointless to make against 3-3 mech, and you can't fungal vikings because your infestors will die to siege hits. What are you supposed to do with them?


5 queens in total - 3 were injecting, so you only had 2 queens to deal with 2 cloaked banshees and 6 banshees. Like you experienced this game, those die pretty quickly, and spores don't do much vs hellions. You need some units - either lings + spines, or just a few roaches.

You manually split corruptors before engaging. Attack in a concave, the bigger the better. Once your BL have forced tanks to unsiege, you can then move in to fungal. Also denying his 4th base was DEFINITELY possible. A ling runby would've forced a cancel on that CC/planetary, but if you allow him to morph it into a planetary you'll need to commit more.

And no, ultra ling will own his army when he has 50 supply in vikings. Not to mention ultra/ling can be a huge killing blow because it reinforces a lot faster than BL corruptor.
Digitalis
Profile Joined August 2011
United States1043 Posts
February 11 2013 05:49 GMT
#9592
Just a control question. How do you drop all the things from the overlords at once instead of individually pressing d then clicking each one?
RaiZ
Profile Blog Joined April 2003
2813 Posts
February 11 2013 06:33 GMT
#9593
On February 11 2013 14:49 Digitalis wrote:
Just a control question. How do you drop all the things from the overlords at once instead of individually pressing d then clicking each one?

Simply press D anywhere in the map ? I think you're refering about the magic box and the way the overlord act strangely when there are too much of them. If you have like 20 overlord and you drop them in only one place, then not all the overlord will drop because of lacking spaces.

Unless you're talking about the famous Boxer sc1's multiple moving drops which doesn't work anymore in sc2 as far as I know.
Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth. Oscar Wilde
houstil
Profile Joined February 2011
France57 Posts
February 11 2013 08:48 GMT
#9594
On February 11 2013 15:33 RaiZ wrote:
Show nested quote +
On February 11 2013 14:49 Digitalis wrote:
Just a control question. How do you drop all the things from the overlords at once instead of individually pressing d then clicking each one?

Simply press D anywhere in the map ? I think you're refering about the magic box and the way the overlord act strangely when there are too much of them. If you have like 20 overlord and you drop them in only one place, then not all the overlord will drop because of lacking spaces.

Unless you're talking about the famous Boxer sc1's multiple moving drops which doesn't work anymore in sc2 as far as I know.


Yes, I think it does. You just have to target drop on your moving overlord.
One click will make the clicked overload drop in a group, so you have to spam a little bit to make them all drop.
And if you miss and focus on the ground instead, they will all stop moving, which is sad ...
houstil.678 on EU - banesh.232 on US | friendly master and servant of the swarm
RaiZ
Profile Blog Joined April 2003
2813 Posts
February 11 2013 08:58 GMT
#9595
On February 11 2013 17:48 houstil wrote:
Show nested quote +
On February 11 2013 15:33 RaiZ wrote:
On February 11 2013 14:49 Digitalis wrote:
Just a control question. How do you drop all the things from the overlords at once instead of individually pressing d then clicking each one?

Simply press D anywhere in the map ? I think you're refering about the magic box and the way the overlord act strangely when there are too much of them. If you have like 20 overlord and you drop them in only one place, then not all the overlord will drop because of lacking spaces.

Unless you're talking about the famous Boxer sc1's multiple moving drops which doesn't work anymore in sc2 as far as I know.


Yes, I think it does. You just have to target drop on your moving overlord.
One click will make the clicked overload drop in a group, so you have to spam a little bit to make them all drop.
And if you miss and focus on the ground instead, they will all stop moving, which is sad ...

I'm talking about the Boxer's multiple drop where you have to find the very center of all your drop and so that they all drop while moving with only a single click.
Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth. Oscar Wilde
Insoleet
Profile Joined May 2012
France1806 Posts
February 11 2013 10:24 GMT
#9596
On February 11 2013 17:58 RaiZ wrote:
Show nested quote +
On February 11 2013 17:48 houstil wrote:
On February 11 2013 15:33 RaiZ wrote:
On February 11 2013 14:49 Digitalis wrote:
Just a control question. How do you drop all the things from the overlords at once instead of individually pressing d then clicking each one?

Simply press D anywhere in the map ? I think you're refering about the magic box and the way the overlord act strangely when there are too much of them. If you have like 20 overlord and you drop them in only one place, then not all the overlord will drop because of lacking spaces.

Unless you're talking about the famous Boxer sc1's multiple moving drops which doesn't work anymore in sc2 as far as I know.


Yes, I think it does. You just have to target drop on your moving overlord.
One click will make the clicked overload drop in a group, so you have to spam a little bit to make them all drop.
And if you miss and focus on the ground instead, they will all stop moving, which is sad ...

I'm talking about the Boxer's multiple drop where you have to find the very center of all your drop and so that they all drop while moving with only a single click.

Drop with all your moving overlords with one click ink only ? you can do this ?
RaiZ
Profile Blog Joined April 2003
2813 Posts
February 11 2013 10:35 GMT
#9597
Not with sc2, you could've done in sc1, with all kind of drops. Can't find that goddamn video on youtube, and don't have time but i'm pretty sure someone will find it.
Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth. Oscar Wilde
houstil
Profile Joined February 2011
France57 Posts
February 11 2013 10:40 GMT
#9598
On February 11 2013 17:58 RaiZ wrote:
Show nested quote +
On February 11 2013 17:48 houstil wrote:
On February 11 2013 15:33 RaiZ wrote:
On February 11 2013 14:49 Digitalis wrote:
Just a control question. How do you drop all the things from the overlords at once instead of individually pressing d then clicking each one?

Simply press D anywhere in the map ? I think you're refering about the magic box and the way the overlord act strangely when there are too much of them. If you have like 20 overlord and you drop them in only one place, then not all the overlord will drop because of lacking spaces.

Unless you're talking about the famous Boxer sc1's multiple moving drops which doesn't work anymore in sc2 as far as I know.


Yes, I think it does. You just have to target drop on your moving overlord.
One click will make the clicked overload drop in a group, so you have to spam a little bit to make them all drop.
And if you miss and focus on the ground instead, they will all stop moving, which is sad ...

I'm talking about the Boxer's multiple drop where you have to find the very center of all your drop and so that they all drop while moving with only a single click.


Ah, sorry, I didn't know this existed in BW.
BW UI was so much easier to use !
houstil.678 on EU - banesh.232 on US | friendly master and servant of the swarm
zombie105
Profile Joined November 2012
8 Posts
February 12 2013 01:09 GMT
#9599
I need some help, every single time this happens vs protoss. SOMEONE PLEASE HELP!

The name is newkirk district(2) under the replays page. I really am sick of dealing with this constant immortal raping whole army thing even when I was maxed out.
iminthealpha
Profile Joined February 2013
United States2 Posts
February 12 2013 02:55 GMT
#9600
I really cant figure out why I lost this game, I hit all my injects but I still cant figure it out. If someone could check my replay and provide some insight I would really appreciate it.
http://drop.sc/304114
Silver league
Prev 1 478 479 480 481 482 489 Next
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
RSL Revival
10:00
Season 1: Playoffs Day 7
SHIN vs ClemLIVE!
Cure vs TBD
Crank 1274
Tasteless937
ComeBackTV 921
IndyStarCraft 156
Rex102
3DClanTV 66
IntoTheiNu 18
LiquipediaDiscussion
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
Crank 1274
Tasteless 937
mouzHeroMarine 417
Nina 169
IndyStarCraft 156
Rex 102
StarCraft: Brood War
Sea 4725
Jaedong 868
Nal_rA 528
ToSsGirL 348
firebathero 328
Light 252
PianO 203
Pusan 167
JulyZerg 160
Leta 147
[ Show more ]
Last 132
soO 113
Mind 78
EffOrt 55
sorry 46
GoRush 34
NaDa 25
Barracks 24
Shinee 19
zelot 19
NotJumperer 14
SilentControl 12
ivOry 3
Dota 2
XcaliburYe411
League of Legends
JimRising 472
Counter-Strike
pashabiceps1485
chrisJcsgo124
Heroes of the Storm
Khaldor218
Other Games
gofns28394
tarik_tv24896
shahzam401
DeMusliM334
crisheroes324
Fuzer 262
SortOf126
Lowko38
Trikslyr29
ArmadaUGS19
Organizations
Other Games
gamesdonequick33732
StarCraft 2
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
sctven
[ Show 12 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• LUISG 7
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• intothetv
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
• LaughNgamezSOOP
• Migwel
• sooper7s
StarCraft: Brood War
• BSLYoutube
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
Dota 2
• lizZardDota2183
Upcoming Events
FEL
1h 16m
FEL
5h 16m
Gerald vs PAPI
Spirit vs ArT
CSO Cup
5h 16m
BSL20 Non-Korean Champi…
7h 16m
Bonyth vs QiaoGege
Dewalt vs Fengzi
Hawk vs Zhanhun
Sziky vs Mihu
Mihu vs QiaoGege
Zhanhun vs Sziky
Fengzi vs Hawk
DaveTesta Events
7h 16m
Sparkling Tuna Cup
23h 16m
RSL Revival
23h 16m
Classic vs TBD
FEL
1d 4h
BSL20 Non-Korean Champi…
1d 7h
Bonyth vs Dewalt
QiaoGege vs Dewalt
Hawk vs Bonyth
Sziky vs Fengzi
Mihu vs Zhanhun
QiaoGege vs Zhanhun
Fengzi vs Mihu
Wardi Open
2 days
[ Show More ]
Replay Cast
2 days
WardiTV European League
3 days
PiGosaur Monday
3 days
uThermal 2v2 Circuit
4 days
Replay Cast
4 days
The PondCast
4 days
Replay Cast
5 days
Epic.LAN
6 days
CranKy Ducklings
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

KCM Race Survival 2025 Season 2
HSC XXVII
NC Random Cup

Ongoing

JPL Season 2
BSL 2v2 Season 3
Acropolis #3
CSL 17: 2025 SUMMER
Copa Latinoamericana 4
Jiahua Invitational
2025 ACS Season 2: Qualifier
CSLPRO Last Chance 2025
Championship of Russia 2025
RSL Revival: Season 1
Murky Cup #2
BLAST.tv Austin Major 2025
ESL Impact League Season 7
IEM Dallas 2025
PGL Astana 2025
Asian Champions League '25
BLAST Rivals Spring 2025
MESA Nomadic Masters

Upcoming

CSL Xiamen Invitational
CSL Xiamen Invitational: ShowMatche
2025 ACS Season 2
CSLPRO Chat StarLAN 3
K-Championship
uThermal 2v2 Main Event
SEL Season 2 Championship
FEL Cracov 2025
Esports World Cup 2025
Underdog Cup #2
StarSeries Fall 2025
FISSURE Playground #2
BLAST Open Fall 2025
BLAST Open Fall Qual
Esports World Cup 2025
BLAST Bounty Fall 2025
BLAST Bounty Fall Qual
IEM Cologne 2025
FISSURE Playground #1
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2025 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.