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The Zerg Help Me Thread - Page 479
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Make sure you read the OP before asking a question. Asking a question already addressed in the OP will result in moderation action. Also, please put some effort into your questions. | ||
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Veriol
Czech Republic502 Posts
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ZiarDS
United States67 Posts
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b0ub0u
Canada445 Posts
Or you just leave the game and go to next ladder match. No need to sweat over a broken strat that Blizzard should have fixed a long time ago! | ||
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3nickma
Denmark1510 Posts
What's the most "optimal" BO for a 15 pool followed by a hatchery opening with gas? | ||
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Natalya
Belgium287 Posts
On February 07 2013 04:16 dproberts55 wrote: a lot of times when I go gasless 14p/15h I end up in a situation where I can either save up for a queen, or drone up some more. Which should I do? Drone up, or save up for a queen? First I'd say dont do that build. Not having speed make u so predictable it's bad. Your opponent can skip banelings or go for a huge freakin ling all in. But if you want an answer, make drones as much as your larva let you. If you have too much minerals after you spend all your larvae, it means u need to take gas or make spine or whatever. I think you dont need more than 3 queens for this style. (4 queens are kinda useless because creep spread is not so important in zvz, unless you want to use them for walling or transfuse on spines if you know for a fact he's allining you) On February 07 2013 09:45 OneObsession wrote: but he pylon blocks right after i get my hatch down it is impossible if you look at the replay What I do is I take two probes to get my first hatch down, one goes to the 3rd in case protoss pylon block my natural hatch. This second drone will see what the protoss is doing with his probe. If it looks suspicious (like the probe is not running away after you planted ur hatch, keep an eye on the probe and hold position ur drone to make it impossible to wall. Basically the probe should run once your hatch is down because he does not want lings to follow him. So if he's not running, it's likely he's up for some canoning. On February 08 2013 02:56 3nickma wrote: What's the most "optimal" BO for a 15 hatch followed by pool opening with gas? What's the most "optimal" BO for a 15 pool followed by a hatchery opening with gas? I think those questions are answered in the op. | ||
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obis
Canada98 Posts
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Mavvie
Canada923 Posts
Later upgrades in response to his cloak + later upgrades, faster detection so that queen/ling can fight the hellion/cloakshee straight up....worth it? | ||
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Henk
Netherlands578 Posts
On February 08 2013 09:00 obis wrote: does anyone know when to get gas as zerg after your natural and main have 16 drones on minerals each? that is where i am kind of lost in my macro where as i do not know when to get my geysers and i don't want to just do it by a time mark like 6 minutes because it doesn't really make sense as to why i am getting them. you wouldn't grab 2 geysers in your main if you had less than 5 larva right? because you would need 8 larva to saturate two geysers because you need 6 to mine gas and 2 to replace the ones from the extractors that were built. when is a time when you would standard time to get extractors? the way i like my macro to work is that i like to complete a list of things like i saturate my minerals first and than i will saturate my geysers but i don't know when is best. Completely depends on build and which matchup. Give some more details (What build do you want to do, in which matchup?) | ||
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obis
Canada98 Posts
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Reki
Philippines89 Posts
On February 08 2013 09:06 Mavvie wrote: If I scout hellion/cloakshee, is it worth getting lair before 1/1? His upgrades will be later too, and the earlier overseers seem worth it to me. I like to be able to fight the banshees head on instead of Turtling in my mineral line with spores. Later upgrades in response to his cloak + later upgrades, faster detection so that queen/ling can fight the hellion/cloakshee straight up....worth it? Wait a second. I thought blind spores, lair after ling speed then overseer asap if you scouted 1-1 or 1-1-1 at 6:00 is standard procedure? I used to get my lair after att and carapace upgrades but banshees can troll my drones if I only have 1 spore per mineral line. | ||
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hyrenfreak
United States23 Posts
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zeek0us
United States67 Posts
I favor muta/ling/bane since that always served me well in ZvT in the past. Is that a dead style vs. marine/tank? If not, what should be my goal? Is it just to transition to something else, or is there a way I'm trying to win the game with that comp? I generally like to keep the pressure on since it feel like sitting back and letting T macro up allows him to build a much better army than I can. Should I be playing super defensively against this style (i.e. try to have 4 bases up at all times, only fight when he tries to deny or kill one, spam static D at all bases to shut down drops)? Do I want an infestor/brood army? I feel like that comp is super fragile and if I make one mistake, I'm left to spam lings which suck against marines with medivac support. Aside from early all-ins (like the 2 gas roach/bane/ling), is there a way to effectively keep pressure on, and if so, what are the goals? I feel like 3rd base denial is kind of a waste, because he can just wait until he has enough to make it impossible for me to deny his expo without committing everything I have in a fight that will favor him (i.e. running ling/bane into positioned marine/tank) -- I can certainly deny the base, but not without losing too much. He can also put a lot of pressure on off just two bases, since he only needs gas for tanks/ups. T players who use MTM, what does Z do that beats you? Fellow Zs, what are your goals through the various stages of the game vs. a MTM terran? Is there a 'best' army to maintain against it, and if so, what are the roles of the units? Is there an absolute no-go (i.e. if he gets up a 4th with no losses, I WILL lose)? | ||
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Mavvie
Canada923 Posts
On February 08 2013 11:46 Reki wrote: Wait a second. I thought blind spores, lair after ling speed then overseer asap if you scouted 1-1 or 1-1-1 at 6:00 is standard procedure? I used to get my lair after att and carapace upgrades but banshees can troll my drones if I only have 1 spore per mineral line. Yeah, I get spores. But for example, 8 hellions and a banshee can break down the natural wall. So you need your queens between your natural+third to defend/transfuse both. But cloaked banshees+hellions can kill said 4 queens and I don't know how to put a spore crawler between my nat+third...was just wondering if it's viable to get the lair before 1/1, because when Terran invests in cloak he delays his own upgrades so it seems pretty even. Was just food for thought after getting destroyed by cloaked banshees that I scouted. Yes, I had spores in each mineral line, but hellions don't give a fuck This happens: http://imgur.com/w2G456a cloaked banshees force me to retreat to the spore/spine at my third. So then This happens: http://imgur.com/ProK7PU can't transfuse in time, he gets through wall, GG. If I went lair before upgrades it would've finished well in time (note lair is ALMOST done, despite delaying it 250 gas for 1/1. imagine if i got it right after speed) and I would've not lost the game right there. | ||
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HighLach
United States132 Posts
On February 08 2013 14:07 zeek0us wrote: What is the way to win against Marine Tank Medivac? I lose far too many games where I macro better for 20 minutes (although with fucking mules, it seems like 4 saturated Z bases < 2 T bases) and then end up losing when I'm spread thin, no matter how well I played in the mid-game. The problem is that my macro and everything else starts to erode after awhile, because I'm kind of generally trying to keep up my eco and not die rather than attempting to execute some winning end-game. I know my macro needs to be better, but I have no idea what I'm trying to do so it feels like I'm trying to win a race without knowing where the finish line is. I favor muta/ling/bane since that always served me well in ZvT in the past. Is that a dead style vs. marine/tank? If not, what should be my goal? Is it just to transition to something else, or is there a way I'm trying to win the game with that comp? I generally like to keep the pressure on since it feel like sitting back and letting T macro up allows him to build a much better army than I can. Should I be playing super defensively against this style (i.e. try to have 4 bases up at all times, only fight when he tries to deny or kill one, spam static D at all bases to shut down drops)? Do I want an infestor/brood army? I feel like that comp is super fragile and if I make one mistake, I'm left to spam lings which suck against marines with medivac support. Aside from early all-ins (like the 2 gas roach/bane/ling), is there a way to effectively keep pressure on, and if so, what are the goals? I feel like 3rd base denial is kind of a waste, because he can just wait until he has enough to make it impossible for me to deny his expo without committing everything I have in a fight that will favor him (i.e. running ling/bane into positioned marine/tank) -- I can certainly deny the base, but not without losing too much. He can also put a lot of pressure on off just two bases, since he only needs gas for tanks/ups. T players who use MTM, what does Z do that beats you? Fellow Zs, what are your goals through the various stages of the game vs. a MTM terran? Is there a 'best' army to maintain against it, and if so, what are the roles of the units? Is there an absolute no-go (i.e. if he gets up a 4th with no losses, I WILL lose)? REPLAY! | ||
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Henk
Netherlands578 Posts
On February 08 2013 11:30 obis wrote: i was wondering if i could just get a standard timing for all match ups i guess. like you get saturate you're minerals until you reach 16 so don't you kind of do the same for gas? ZvP: 2 gas at 6:00, another one at 6:30 (Assuming standard FFE and you do 3 quick hatch). Once you see toss take a third or go for some kind of delayed colossus all in, take more gases. ZvT: I always do the 4 queen opening (So with an early third - around 50-75% completion of 3rd and 4th queen)- I take 2 gases at 5:20, go speed-1/1-lair (or speed-lair-1/1 sometimes). Take 2 more gases when your lair starts, and 2 more after it has been completed (so you can tech to either infestors or mutas.) ZvZ: I usually go 15P 16H 17G. Then speed-baneling nest and lair after that. If I'm going mutas, I take 3 gas more when my lair starts. If not, I think 3 gas in total will be fine for roaches, and take more gas when you're getting to infestors. | ||
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Natalya
Belgium287 Posts
On February 08 2013 09:06 Mavvie wrote: If I scout hellion/cloakshee, is it worth getting lair before 1/1? His upgrades will be later too, and the earlier overseers seem worth it to me. I like to be able to fight the banshees head on instead of Turtling in my mineral line with spores. Later upgrades in response to his cloak + later upgrades, faster detection so that queen/ling can fight the hellion/cloakshee straight up....worth it? Depends on your build in general. Do you take a 3rd before gas? I take a third before any gas as and with my gas I go lingspeed lair double ups. If you go lair after double ups with gasless third into 4 gas at the same time, your overseer is too late for the cloack. On February 08 2013 13:20 hyrenfreak wrote: im just starting playing zerg and i know its good to keybind like bases for 5-8 for example but does someone have a better way to keybind it to add stuff to those and to select those control groups for the higher numbers. Having to click the actual numbers on my keyboard feels really wierd to me. You can have all your hatcheries on a single hotkey. No reason not to do that, unless you're taking a hidden base in a corner of the map where you only wants drones to be made. If you have hatcheries on different hotkeys to inject, there are better method to do that in my opinion. You can use camera hotkeys (you have all queens on one hotkey, you use camera hotkey one on your main, you inject, then hit camera 2 on your nat, you inject, etc.). You could also inject on minimap (have all queens on one hotkey, hold inject hotkey and click on every hatchery on minimap). There's also the backspace method (if you search "backspace method injection" or something you should find it) On February 08 2013 14:29 Mavvie wrote: Yeah, I get spores. But for example, 8 hellions and a banshee can break down the natural wall. So you need your queens between your natural+third to defend/transfuse both. But cloaked banshees+hellions can kill said 4 queens and I don't know how to put a spore crawler between my nat+third...was just wondering if it's viable to get the lair before 1/1, because when Terran invests in cloak he delays his own upgrades so it seems pretty even. Was just food for thought after getting destroyed by cloaked banshees that I scouted. Yes, I had spores in each mineral line, but hellions don't give a fuck This happens: http://imgur.com/w2G456a cloaked banshees force me to retreat to the spore/spine at my third. So then This happens: http://imgur.com/ProK7PU can't transfuse in time, he gets through wall, GG. If I went lair before upgrades it would've finished well in time (note lair is ALMOST done, despite delaying it 250 gas for 1/1. imagine if i got it right after speed) and I would've not lost the game right there. If terran has more than 4 helions you should have roaches or banes. Or god-like ling micro (which with all due respect i wouldnt risk it). If you see banshees, adding a 5th queen (so 3 grouped up for creep, 2 for inject) does not hurt either. And eventually a 6th at your 3rd. However, I dont know if you take a fast third like it's standard in zvt, but if you did, taking a couple drone loss doesnt really matter, you will be still be at least even with a terran 3 oc. A blind spore at your main is not a bad idea as you cant always scout terran. So the spore in your main zone out banshees in your main and your group of 2-3 queens should be out in the open protecting your natural, third and zoning out helions as well. | ||
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dproberts55
15 Posts
On February 07 2013 09:29 Henk wrote: Patrol a drone on the bottom of the ramp when you place down your hatch until your lings are out. It costs something like 20-30 minerals but it's better than losing games due to this buggy shit. Don't worry though, it's getting fixed in hots. Just curious, what did they do in HOTS to prevent this? | ||
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Veriol
Czech Republic502 Posts
On February 09 2013 00:21 dproberts55 wrote: Just curious, what did they do in HOTS to prevent this? neutral depo @ ramp is deflaut part of maps (even on ladder) | ||
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ZiarDS
United States67 Posts
But theirs really no reason why you shouldn't have a drone blocking it. sure the things limit what you had to worry about but that just frees you worry about all the other things you've gotta worry about. | ||
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OneObsession
Germany42 Posts
And late game zvp is really annoying cause mutas dont work xD | ||
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