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I recently learned how to hotkey the eggs and I'm able to easily reinforce zerglings/roaches/hyras when moving around the map/attacking.
But I'm having trouble with reinforcing mutas because, when in do this: 1. Select all hatcheries (number 4) 2. Select all larvae (S) 3. Select Mutas (spam M) 4. Hotkeying (Shift + 1) ----> this is where the problem happens, I also get to assign the larvae not yet morphing into the control group of mutas
the resulting problem is when I do this, I include the new mutas in control group but when I build something else with the larvae, (eg. drones, lings): They get included in the muta control group?
How do the pros prevent this? I've seen idra and losira use mutas and they can easily reinforce by hotkeying the eggs correctly. What wrong am I doing? I hope its not too manual action.
On January 22 2013 12:50 Discarder wrote: Hello, I have a mechanics problem.
I recently learned how to hotkey the eggs and I'm able to easily reinforce zerglings/roaches/hyras when moving around the map/attacking.
But I'm having trouble with reinforcing mutas because, when in do this: 1. Select all hatcheries (number 4) 2. Select all larvae (S) 3. Select Mutas (spam M) 4. Hotkeying (Shift + 1) ----> this is where the problem happens, I also get to assign the larvae not yet morphing into the control group of mutas
the resulting problem is when I do this, I include the new mutas in control group but when I build something else with the larvae, (eg. drones, lings): They get included in the muta control group?
How do the pros prevent this? I've seen idra and losira use mutas and they can easily reinforce by hotkeying the eggs correctly. What wrong am I doing? I hope its not too manual action.
Are you making sure to control click the eggs currently morphing and then add them to the control group?
On January 22 2013 12:50 Discarder wrote: Hello, I have a mechanics problem.
I recently learned how to hotkey the eggs and I'm able to easily reinforce zerglings/roaches/hyras when moving around the map/attacking.
But I'm having trouble with reinforcing mutas because, when in do this: 1. Select all hatcheries (number 4) 2. Select all larvae (S) 3. Select Mutas (spam M) 4. Hotkeying (Shift + 1) ----> this is where the problem happens, I also get to assign the larvae not yet morphing into the control group of mutas
the resulting problem is when I do this, I include the new mutas in control group but when I build something else with the larvae, (eg. drones, lings): They get included in the muta control group?
How do the pros prevent this? I've seen idra and losira use mutas and they can easily reinforce by hotkeying the eggs correctly. What wrong am I doing? I hope its not too manual action.
Are you making sure to control click the eggs currently morphing and then add them to the control group?
awwwww so sorry, i guess thats the answer i needed. control click.
Hi! I have seen 2 bases all in vs terran that consist in +1 +1 speed roaches vs terran. I dont know the build order, but it beats banshee hellion open very easy, if third coman this is auto win
someone has heard about it? im looking for the BO of this
On January 23 2013 01:36 wijixx wrote: Hi! I have seen 2 bases all in vs terran that consist in +1 +1 speed roaches vs terran. I dont know the build order, but it beats banshee hellion open very easy, if third coman this is auto win
someone has heard about it? im looking for the BO of this
I'm not sure if this is exactly what you're looking for, but it's pretty damn good.
On January 23 2013 01:36 wijixx wrote: Hi! I have seen 2 bases all in vs terran that consist in +1 +1 speed roaches vs terran. I dont know the build order, but it beats banshee hellion open very easy, if third coman this is auto win
someone has heard about it? im looking for the BO of this
I haven't heard about that. But Stephano does something similar where he takes third with couple of roaches drones a little to around 45 drones and then goes for big roach/ling with speed and 1/1 upgrades. Id recommend watching this this
On January 23 2013 01:36 wijixx wrote: Hi! I have seen 2 bases all in vs terran that consist in +1 +1 speed roaches vs terran. I dont know the build order, but it beats banshee hellion open very easy, if third coman this is auto win
someone has heard about it? im looking for the BO of this
...that was surprisingly informative. I actually learned a lot about how to execute roach busts lol; I'd always try to break the bunker even when it's in a position like that, instead of run-by and bust the supply depot. Smart, and cool to know that you have to kill 10 SCVs to be ahead, and I was really impressed by how killing the SCVs delays his tanks so the followup speedroach push just ends the game :D
I will definitely try this out on ladder, props to DRG and razer for that video
On January 23 2013 01:36 wijixx wrote: Hi! I have seen 2 bases all in vs terran that consist in +1 +1 speed roaches vs terran. I dont know the build order, but it beats banshee hellion open very easy, if third coman this is auto win
someone has heard about it? im looking for the BO of this
...that was surprisingly informative. I actually learned a lot about how to execute roach busts lol; I'd always try to break the bunker even when it's in a position like that, instead of run-by and bust the supply depot. Smart, and cool to know that you have to kill 10 SCVs to be ahead, and I was really impressed by how killing the SCVs delays his tanks so the followup speedroach push just ends the game :D
I will definitely try this out on ladder, props to DRG and razer for that video
I know right, he explained things so very clearly. Like, after a roach bust like this, a terran either goes all in or goes 3CC. This simple reasoning just never popped up in my mind. Another wave of roaches deals with either of these; enough to kill the all in, and enough to just end the game right there if he went 3CC. His followup with mutas is basically unbeatable; no economy-hurt terran will invest in anti air after having seen so many roaches.
I have a fairly quick question about ZvT. I do a 4 queen opener, 5:00 third and standard speed->+1/+1->lair + bane nest and all that good stuff, and I'm comfortable defending most 2 base timing pushes. However, I'm a little confused about a 3rax double reactor stim/CS + tank + medivac push. I never know how much to drone my third.
I have a hard time distinguishing between a "normal" 3 rax tank macro build and the all in version with 5 rax...I think. I don't know when to cut drones, and what to look for to tell me to cut drones. I drone my 2 bases with 4 gas, and upon scouting tanks I make about 5 drones for my third, a macro hatch/bane nest, and then mass lings. However I feel like the lings are too early, and then I squeeze out some drones and some lings and ultimately when the push comes I have neither enough lings or enough drones to defend it. You can see this in the replay, except that in the end I got infestors + enough ling/bane to defend the push.
So basically, when facing against fast tank play, what do I look for to tell me when to cut drones and produce lings?
On January 22 2013 12:50 Discarder wrote: Hello, I have a mechanics problem.
I recently learned how to hotkey the eggs and I'm able to easily reinforce zerglings/roaches/hyras when moving around the map/attacking.
But I'm having trouble with reinforcing mutas because, when in do this: 1. Select all hatcheries (number 4) 2. Select all larvae (S) 3. Select Mutas (spam M) 4. Hotkeying (Shift + 1) ----> this is where the problem happens, I also get to assign the larvae not yet morphing into the control group of mutas
the resulting problem is when I do this, I include the new mutas in control group but when I build something else with the larvae, (eg. drones, lings): They get included in the muta control group?
How do the pros prevent this? I've seen idra and losira use mutas and they can easily reinforce by hotkeying the eggs correctly. What wrong am I doing? I hope its not too manual action.
You are selecting all your eggs. You just need to select the eggs that are morphing to mutas. You do this by selecting a muta morphing egg and hitting the CTRL Key then adding that group to your mutas.
On January 24 2013 05:23 SnowZi wrote: One simple question,how do i deal with 3 pylon block,it seems unbeatable,does anyone has a replay on how to defend it,i feel really hopeless in zvp...
That's because it is unbeatable. Once the Protoss manages to block your ramp you're soooo far behind you can't win unless the Toss's wife demands 20 mins of "immediate attention". :p
Basically you need to have a drone patrolling the ramp until your pool is up.
On January 24 2013 05:23 SnowZi wrote: One simple question,how do i deal with 3 pylon block,it seems unbeatable,does anyone has a replay on how to defend it,i feel really hopeless in zvp...
That's because it is unbeatable. Once the Protoss manages to block your ramp you're soooo far behind you can't win unless the Toss's wife demands 20 mins of "immediate attention". :p
Basically you need to have a drone patrolling the ramp until your pool is up.
I prefer my approach of cursing under my breath and then leaving the game. Works pretty well, and doesn't put me behind if he plays standard.
On January 24 2013 05:32 Mavvie wrote: I have a fairly quick question about ZvT. I do a 4 queen opener, 5:00 third and standard speed->+1/+1->lair + bane nest and all that good stuff, and I'm comfortable defending most 2 base timing pushes. However, I'm a little confused about a 3rax double reactor stim/CS + tank + medivac push. I never know how much to drone my third.
I have a hard time distinguishing between a "normal" 3 rax tank macro build and the all in version with 5 rax...I think. I don't know when to cut drones, and what to look for to tell me to cut drones. I drone my 2 bases with 4 gas, and upon scouting tanks I make about 5 drones for my third, a macro hatch/bane nest, and then mass lings. However I feel like the lings are too early, and then I squeeze out some drones and some lings and ultimately when the push comes I have neither enough lings or enough drones to defend it. You can see this in the replay, except that in the end I got infestors + enough ling/bane to defend the push.
So basically, when facing against fast tank play, what do I look for to tell me when to cut drones and produce lings?
I think you did pretty well actually. I'm not sure what he was thinking, going straight onto creep without scanning to clear, but whatever. You didn't lose a single drone due to that push. And yeah, you randomly make 32 (!!!!!!) lings while the terran seriously only has 5 marines and a tank. If those were drones, you could've held it with much more ease. Get an overseer, drop a changeling and sac the overseer to scout the size of his army. You supply blocked yourself a little too, as 138 supply I think, right as the fight went down. Also a few more banelings would've been nice.
What you could try, is getting the terran to siege up on his way there. Like, engage with lings, and pull back when he sieges up. This buys you a lot of time for more lings.
Also I'm not 100% sure, but I think you could've been more efficient with creep. There were tonnes of creep tumors just outside your natural, which you then spread a few inches away from the old ones.
Edit: At 13:30, you suddenly make a SHITTON of drones (16) even though you're already saturated on 3 bases, and you don't even have a 4th building. I'm not sure why; you knew he didn't even land his third yet, but it didn't really matter since you already crushed his push, but whatever. Might just wanna make some lings instead, get a 4th, and just pump out drones when it's almost finished and you're sure it's safe.
On January 24 2013 05:32 Mavvie wrote: I have a fairly quick question about ZvT. I do a 4 queen opener, 5:00 third and standard speed->+1/+1->lair + bane nest and all that good stuff, and I'm comfortable defending most 2 base timing pushes. However, I'm a little confused about a 3rax double reactor stim/CS + tank + medivac push. I never know how much to drone my third.
I have a hard time distinguishing between a "normal" 3 rax tank macro build and the all in version with 5 rax...I think. I don't know when to cut drones, and what to look for to tell me to cut drones. I drone my 2 bases with 4 gas, and upon scouting tanks I make about 5 drones for my third, a macro hatch/bane nest, and then mass lings. However I feel like the lings are too early, and then I squeeze out some drones and some lings and ultimately when the push comes I have neither enough lings or enough drones to defend it. You can see this in the replay, except that in the end I got infestors + enough ling/bane to defend the push.
So basically, when facing against fast tank play, what do I look for to tell me when to cut drones and produce lings?
I think you did pretty well actually. I'm not sure what he was thinking, going straight onto creep without scanning to clear, but whatever. You didn't lose a single drone due to that push. And yeah, you randomly make 32 (!!!!!!) lings while the terran seriously only has 5 marines and a tank. If those were drones, you could've held it with much more ease. Get an overseer, drop a changeling and sac the overseer to scout the size of his army. You supply blocked yourself a little too, as 138 supply I think, right as the fight went down. Also a few more banelings would've been nice.
What you could try, is getting the terran to siege up on his way there. Like, engage with lings, and pull back when he sieges up. This buys you a lot of time for more lings.
Also I'm not 100% sure, but I think you could've been more efficient with creep. There were tonnes of creep tumors just outside your natural, which you then spread a few inches away from the old ones.
Edit: At 13:30, you suddenly make a SHITTON of drones (16) even though you're already saturated on 3 bases, and you don't even have a 4th building. I'm not sure why; you knew he didn't even land his third yet, but it didn't really matter since you already crushed his push, but whatever. Might just wanna make some lings instead, get a 4th, and just pump out drones when it's almost finished and you're sure it's safe.
Thanks, yeah things worked out well that game. But he did a failed 2rax (I was ahead like 44 supply to 24 or something)
I understand and I know that my problem is making lings early, then droning, then making more lings. I guess I'm not familiar with the timings? Like I sort of have reactions programmed to various things, and am unsure of what to do when I scout a 2 base tank/medivac push. When do I cut drones? In this game I could've gone to 66 then massed ling/bane and delayed my infestors slightly, held the push easily, and instantly won. But in another game a tank push will come earlier, where I didn't cut drones early enough (like at 50 or something) and I die.
I like the overseer idea and should've done it earlier, but my lair was nowhere near complete when I made those 32 lings.
I mean I watched the replay and know where I went wrong (thanks for pointing out creep; my spread was pretty terrible through the mid and lategame, and in a normal game I would've paid the price for it), and IMO I should've not made the infestors and gotten a sizable baneling count up and flanked and all that standard ling/bane vs marine/tank stuff. But I was looking for more of an answer about how to react to scouting after seeing tanks.
I've come to this conclusion: If I suspect a tank push that I can't overrun with reactive lings (basically anything after 10:00), I can drone to 65 or so, with a fast macro hatch and baneling nest immediately after lair, then pump lings to either contend their third or defend mine.
^Is this thinking correct? In the past I kind of just shit out a few units here and a few drones here, ultimately being really inefficient because I have no idea what I'm doing haha.
About the 16 drones after: I actually didn't know I had made those. My third was super saturated all game as a result, and it's really unlike me to let that happen. Not a big deal that game, but my income was really hurting as a result; it's not a common occurrence in my games
On January 24 2013 05:32 Mavvie wrote: I have a fairly quick question about ZvT. I do a 4 queen opener, 5:00 third and standard speed->+1/+1->lair + bane nest and all that good stuff, and I'm comfortable defending most 2 base timing pushes. However, I'm a little confused about a 3rax double reactor stim/CS + tank + medivac push. I never know how much to drone my third.
I have a hard time distinguishing between a "normal" 3 rax tank macro build and the all in version with 5 rax...I think. I don't know when to cut drones, and what to look for to tell me to cut drones. I drone my 2 bases with 4 gas, and upon scouting tanks I make about 5 drones for my third, a macro hatch/bane nest, and then mass lings. However I feel like the lings are too early, and then I squeeze out some drones and some lings and ultimately when the push comes I have neither enough lings or enough drones to defend it. You can see this in the replay, except that in the end I got infestors + enough ling/bane to defend the push.
So basically, when facing against fast tank play, what do I look for to tell me when to cut drones and produce lings?
I think you did pretty well actually. I'm not sure what he was thinking, going straight onto creep without scanning to clear, but whatever. You didn't lose a single drone due to that push. And yeah, you randomly make 32 (!!!!!!) lings while the terran seriously only has 5 marines and a tank. If those were drones, you could've held it with much more ease. Get an overseer, drop a changeling and sac the overseer to scout the size of his army. You supply blocked yourself a little too, as 138 supply I think, right as the fight went down. Also a few more banelings would've been nice.
What you could try, is getting the terran to siege up on his way there. Like, engage with lings, and pull back when he sieges up. This buys you a lot of time for more lings.
Also I'm not 100% sure, but I think you could've been more efficient with creep. There were tonnes of creep tumors just outside your natural, which you then spread a few inches away from the old ones.
Edit: At 13:30, you suddenly make a SHITTON of drones (16) even though you're already saturated on 3 bases, and you don't even have a 4th building. I'm not sure why; you knew he didn't even land his third yet, but it didn't really matter since you already crushed his push, but whatever. Might just wanna make some lings instead, get a 4th, and just pump out drones when it's almost finished and you're sure it's safe.
Thanks, yeah things worked out well that game. But he did a failed 2rax (I was ahead like 44 supply to 24 or something)
I understand and I know that my problem is making lings early, then droning, then making more lings. I guess I'm not familiar with the timings? Like I sort of have reactions programmed to various things, and am unsure of what to do when I scout a 2 base tank/medivac push. When do I cut drones? In this game I could've gone to 66 then massed ling/bane and delayed my infestors slightly, held the push easily, and instantly won. But in another game a tank push will come earlier, where I didn't cut drones early enough (like at 50 or something) and I die.
I like the overseer idea and should've done it earlier, but my lair was nowhere near complete when I made those 32 lings.
I mean I watched the replay and know where I went wrong (thanks for pointing out creep; my spread was pretty terrible through the mid and lategame, and in a normal game I would've paid the price for it), and IMO I should've not made the infestors and gotten a sizable baneling count up and flanked and all that standard ling/bane vs marine/tank stuff. But I was looking for more of an answer about how to react to scouting after seeing tanks.
I've come to this conclusion: If I suspect a tank push that I can't overrun with reactive lings (basically anything after 10:00), I can drone to 65 or so, with a fast macro hatch and baneling nest immediately after lair, then pump lings to either contend their third or defend mine.
^Is this thinking correct? In the past I kind of just shit out a few units here and a few drones here, ultimately being really inefficient because I have no idea what I'm doing haha.
About the 16 drones after: I actually didn't know I had made those. My third was super saturated all game as a result, and it's really unlike me to let that happen. Not a big deal that game, but my income was really hurting as a result; it's not a common occurrence in my games
Nah, you weren't really -that- ahead. He just did some pressure, although it was a 2rax, he barely committed and killed 2 drones. You were a bit ahead, I'd say. And yeah, in some games, you could see an earlier attack, but with an overlord on the ledge you could've seen he barely had any units. Also, perhaps you could've flanked with a couple of lings in the game you uploaded. Flanking really improves your game and one flank isn't that hard to set up. Teching to infestors straight away can really work out, but in pushes like this you might want 2 infestors less and 12 banelings more. It kinda depends on the game, intel is key.
I saw an instruction youtube video of DRG doing a 10-Roach rush against a 1 rax FE into hellion banshee build. He killed 16 workers in the first attack. Opponent tried to build a 3rd CC to remake the lost workers.
After that he just continued droning, got a lair, upgraded roach speed, made more roaches, attacked again and won.
How was it worth it? I was wondering, he paid 750 minerals and 250 gas and only killed workers. Its theoretically not good exchange, can anybody analyze why was it good and how he won despite the attacking not getting a good cost to cost exchange?
I'd like to post the link but its forbidden. seach roach pressure and dongraegu on youtube
On January 24 2013 17:20 Discarder wrote: I saw an instruction youtube video of DRG doing a 10-Roach rush against a 1 rax FE into hellion banshee build. He killed 16 workers in the first attack. Opponent tried to build a 3rd CC to remake the lost workers.
After that he just continued droning, got a lair, upgraded roach speed, made more roaches, attacked again and won.
How was it worth it? I was wondering, he paid 750 minerals and 250 gas and only killed workers. Its theoretically not good exchange, can anybody analyze why was it good and how he won despite the attacking not getting a good cost to cost exchange?
I'd like to post the link but its forbidden. seach roach pressure and dongraegu on youtube
Why would posting a link to a game of sc2 be forbidden? :o.
but to answer your question if terran (or any race) doesn't have that many military units and loses most of his workers (especially with a 3 CC so he doesn't have a lot of production) losing workers is big. Especially if this is early game. Even terran is affected by worker losses in the early game if they didn't kill any of their opponents.
Losing 16 workers that early in the game is huge and zerg has larva and can make multiple workers at once so zerg would be in an amazing position after that. Now if terran had an army but no workers zerg is probably screwed if he is droning at home.
In short losing workers that early means you can't have units, zerg can mass drone and is probably ahead as zergs normally drone while their attack is going if they don't intend on it being a complete all or nothing (the 10 roaches HAVE to do damage, but if he kept making units and not droning he would have to kill the terran or he would lose economically).
You have to realize while the terran is losing workers zerg is droning and again will have a better economy - not have to worry about an attack and then is ahead.
On January 24 2013 17:20 Discarder wrote: I saw an instruction youtube video of DRG doing a 10-Roach rush against a 1 rax FE into hellion banshee build. He killed 16 workers in the first attack. Opponent tried to build a 3rd CC to remake the lost workers.
After that he just continued droning, got a lair, upgraded roach speed, made more roaches, attacked again and won.
How was it worth it? I was wondering, he paid 750 minerals and 250 gas and only killed workers. Its theoretically not good exchange, can anybody analyze why was it good and how he won despite the attacking not getting a good cost to cost exchange?
I'd like to post the link but its forbidden. seach roach pressure and dongraegu on youtube
I actually posted that video on this page, like 8 posts before you. When a worker dies, you can'tsimply say '50 minerals gone', because in the time terran remake those 16 workers, those 16 workers (if they were still alive) would've mined a ton of minerals.
On January 23 2013 01:36 wijixx wrote: Hi! I have seen 2 bases all in vs terran that consist in +1 +1 speed roaches vs terran. I dont know the build order, but it beats banshee hellion open very easy, if third coman this is auto win
someone has heard about it? im looking for the BO of this
3CC is actually not free win at all. Ironically - 3CC opening is actually better to defend an early roach push than a 2CC opening. (the one that most zergs do on 2 base). Because of so many workers. The Terran can afford to sac workers to defend. However if the Terran makes 2CC opening and lose workers to a roach rush - and then makes a 3rd CC AFTER he lose scv. He will probably be punished for it with the next wave or next fight.
EPT
