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The Zerg Help Me Thread - Page 471

Forum Index > StarCraft 2 Strategy
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Make sure you read the OP before asking a question. Asking a question already addressed in the OP will result in moderation action. Also, please put some effort into your questions.
schwza
Profile Joined September 2011
67 Posts
January 24 2013 18:03 GMT
#9401
In that 8 roach rush in the DRG video posted on the last page (it is 15h, 16p, 17g, 28 roach warren for those who don't want to watch it), what do you do if the terran has scv's on mass repair with the depot at the top of the ramp and stuff shooting from behind the wall? Shoot the scv's repairing?
Mavvie
Profile Blog Joined May 2012
Canada923 Posts
January 24 2013 18:09 GMT
#9402
haha, yeah I use hotkeys

I even add the eggs to my control groups before they finish morphing! I just meant that to avoid suicidal overseers, you can set 1 overseer to follow each broodlord. That way, as long as at least one broodlord is alive, you'll have detection following you.

I did find that funny
Getting back into sc2 O_o
Henk
Profile Joined March 2012
Netherlands578 Posts
January 24 2013 18:24 GMT
#9403
On January 25 2013 03:03 schwza wrote:
In that 8 roach rush in the DRG video posted on the last page (it is 15h, 16p, 17g, 28 roach warren for those who don't want to watch it), what do you do if the terran has scv's on mass repair with the depot at the top of the ramp and stuff shooting from behind the wall? Shoot the scv's repairing?


Well if he has a bunker at the top of his ramp he probably got an scv in and saw the roaches or the roach warren.. Which shouldn't have happened. Use the 2 lings you made at the start to chase away a potential SCV at the watchtower.

If he somehow still has a bunker there.. Try to focus down some SCVs I guess, prevent mining and kill what you can. You're pretty behind from this point, but at least you can prevent him from coming down for a while.
RedDeathLiquid
Profile Joined November 2012
Poland16 Posts
January 24 2013 21:11 GMT
#9404
On January 25 2013 03:09 Mavvie wrote:
haha, yeah I use hotkeys

I even add the eggs to my control groups before they finish morphing! I just meant that to avoid suicidal overseers, you can set 1 overseer to follow each broodlord. That way, as long as at least one broodlord is alive, you'll have detection following you.

I did find that funny


Yeah that's what I used to do, but now I'll give Natalya's idea a shot.

ZiarDS - no worries, a good laugh is good for your health .
Tomorrow’s Battle is Won during Today’s Training
kuebk
Profile Joined September 2010
Poland15 Posts
January 24 2013 21:25 GMT
#9405
On January 22 2013 07:48 Kraelog wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 22 2013 06:46 kuebk wrote:
Hi, could you guys help me analize what I did wrong? I'm high platinum, this is ZvP and I was trying to use stephano max roach style.
Did I lose because of bad enganment or did I do more wrong decisions?

http://drop.sc/297397

What I did wrong (IMO):
- bad creep spread
- no scouting

Thanks.





Concerning Macro,

at 7.00 you have 46 supply and LESS workers than the protoss. That's bad. You need to get it to 51-54 at the very least. You stay on 51 workers which is extremely low for 3bases.

Concerning the Protoss,

You want to do a Stephano Roach Max, but you don't have a clue what the protoss is doing. You have 2 OL waiting in excellent positions but you never send them in. Send in 2 OL at 7.15-7.30 so you know what he is doing. Here he is preparing an immortal/sentry allin, so going mass Roach is good. But SCOUT MORE

Concerning the fight,

In the first engagement you kill 4 sentry's and he uses a lot of FF's so that GOOD. If you'd attacked him from two sides when he crossed the map, you would have crushed him. Instead you retreat in a corner so he can slice & dice your army with the new sentry's he warped and STILL he barely makes it.


So overal, focus on MACRO!, scout and flank any Protoss push from at least two sides.




Just played a game vs P, I tried to focus heavy on macro and I think I've somehow made it.
It's not ideal game, still getting supply blocked, forgetting about creep spread - but the injects were pretty good imo.
I have to say that this game was probably my first really macro heavy game and it makes me feel great after playing such game and winning it easily.

Dropping replay in case anyone would want to look and give me some more tips: http://drop.sc/298327

Thanks.
Natalya
Profile Joined December 2011
Belgium287 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-01-24 21:55:43
January 24 2013 21:51 GMT
#9406
On January 25 2013 01:36 RedDeathLiquid wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 25 2013 00:36 Natalya wrote:
On January 25 2013 00:12 Henk wrote:
Question: How do you prevent your overseers from dying in lategame ZvP? I just have them with my army, but if I a-move they fly into the opponents units and die, leaving me without vision for the mothership.

If I let them follow my BL, and I then split BL to form a concave, then stop following and just hang around somewhere not near the battle.

How do you guys do this?


I have them in same control group as infestors. Since you should not a-move ur infestors, u should be fine.


Thanks for this, it's brilliant in simplicity . Been wondering for a while how to solve this - even found that you can't shift-queue follow command, so if one blord die, overseer will follow the next one. But this is even better.


You're welcome ^^

On January 25 2013 02:01 Mavvie wrote:
I don't hotkey them, I make them follow my broodlords

and make a lot of them, like you can make 10 and put one following each broodlord so you should always have detection.


Wow are you kidding me? why 10???? it's 500 gas man lol. + you could be severely supply blocked if you lose them (like 120/200 lol) I usually make 3 or 4. Protoss cant snipe 4 overseers (i also research speed).

On January 25 2013 02:56 ZiarDS wrote:
I have gotten so sick of cannon rushs and protoss meta gaming you and build a extremly late forge or to early of one 7 pooling till they stop or i want a macro game.


If you're really that much on tilt with cannon rush, try going 13 pool 15 hatch. The trick with canon rush is, once you've planted your hatch, your overlord should be at the toss natural, so that you should see if he has a nexus already. If he has a nexus, he cant canon rush. If he does not have one, take a drone and go scout around your hatch. If you wanna be 100% safe, you can take 2 drones to make ur hatch and leave one drone on attack comand on the probe.

With time you should learn to know when the toss is going to canon rush or not. Basically he has no business staying close to your hatch if he's not cannoning, since he does not want the ling to follow him. So if he stays too close to your hatch, you can assume there's a high chance he'll canon you.

On January 25 2013 03:09 Mavvie wrote:
haha, yeah I use hotkeys

I even add the eggs to my control groups before they finish morphing! I just meant that to avoid suicidal overseers, you can set 1 overseer to follow each broodlord. That way, as long as at least one broodlord is alive, you'll have detection following you.

I did find that funny


Just saying, but you can have 2-3 overseers and queue move (follow) command on each broodlords. So that they will follow a broodlords no matter what happen. If you're gosu, you will even take the overseers one by one and order them to follow different broods at the start. So that they dont get all sucked into a vortex at once even if you should still have fungal to reveal units.


On January 25 2013 03:03 schwza wrote:
In that 8 roach rush in the DRG video posted on the last page (it is 15h, 16p, 17g, 28 roach warren for those who don't want to watch it), what do you do if the terran has scv's on mass repair with the depot at the top of the ramp and stuff shooting from behind the wall? Shoot the scv's repairing?


I'd say there's two different situation. The first one, you have few enough roaches that they can all shoot at the scv at the top of the ramp. Then what you do is put your roaches super close to the depot and hold position. They'll fire at whatever is in range, and that will be scv. If you cant do that for whatever reason, i'd say go for the contain on the natural. You still have some valuable targets like depots and gas that you can destroy usually.

Muahaha epic post for the win
ZiarDS
Profile Blog Joined October 2011
United States67 Posts
January 24 2013 21:57 GMT
#9407
You just have to focus on macro for like 10 games games really aren't that long just play for a quick 2 hours with just macro just focusing on macro. You can't keep up with all macro concepts work with stablizing the basic ones then move out from after 5 games.
Mavvie
Profile Blog Joined May 2012
Canada923 Posts
January 24 2013 22:06 GMT
#9408
10 was an exaggeration. I usually have a bank anyway and the game won, so I tend to go for ~6. But wow, it is a lot of gas O_O
Getting back into sc2 O_o
schwza
Profile Joined September 2011
67 Posts
January 24 2013 23:41 GMT
#9409
On January 25 2013 03:24 Henk wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 25 2013 03:03 schwza wrote:
In that 8 roach rush in the DRG video posted on the last page (it is 15h, 16p, 17g, 28 roach warren for those who don't want to watch it), what do you do if the terran has scv's on mass repair with the depot at the top of the ramp and stuff shooting from behind the wall? Shoot the scv's repairing?


Well if he has a bunker at the top of his ramp he probably got an scv in and saw the roaches or the roach warren.. Which shouldn't have happened. Use the 2 lings you made at the start to chase away a potential SCV at the watchtower.

If he somehow still has a bunker there.. Try to focus down some SCVs I guess, prevent mining and kill what you can. You're pretty behind from this point, but at least you can prevent him from coming down for a while.


I said scv's repairing a supply depot, not a bunker. Marines still outrange roaches so he should be able to stand behind supply depots and shoot roaches.
Maggost
Profile Joined August 2011
Venezuela296 Posts
January 25 2013 00:36 GMT
#9410
Hello guys.

What should i do if the Terran denies my natural expo with an engi bay? what BO should i follow?
Quote
blade55555
Profile Blog Joined March 2009
United States17423 Posts
January 25 2013 03:08 GMT
#9411
On January 25 2013 09:36 Maggost wrote:
Hello guys.

What should i do if the Terran denies my natural expo with an engi bay? what BO should i follow?


Just do a 15 pool. This puts his build behind just as much as you since he is delaying his rax to delay your expo. Just do 15 pool and play normal.
When I think of something else, something will go here
Mavvie
Profile Blog Joined May 2012
Canada923 Posts
January 25 2013 03:19 GMT
#9412
^I recommend taking a gas too. It helps you spend the minerals better, and it generally ends up being worth it.
Getting back into sc2 O_o
Oboeman
Profile Joined January 2011
Canada3980 Posts
January 25 2013 04:05 GMT
#9413
I don't like taking gas vs e-bay block. I pull 3 drones to harass the SCV asap so he doesn't get to build the e-bay all the way to 99%. continue spending your larva (because you were banking larva while saving up 300 minerals for that hatch), then pool and hatch as soon as he cancels the e-bay.
he is screwing himself up as well by doing this.

I guess instead of having 3 drones on gas, i have 3 drones killing the e-bay, so the expansion is earlier.
RedDeathLiquid
Profile Joined November 2012
Poland16 Posts
January 25 2013 09:50 GMT
#9414
On January 25 2013 06:51 Natalya wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 25 2013 01:36 RedDeathLiquid wrote:
On January 25 2013 00:36 Natalya wrote:
On January 25 2013 00:12 Henk wrote:
Question: How do you prevent your overseers from dying in lategame ZvP? I just have them with my army, but if I a-move they fly into the opponents units and die, leaving me without vision for the mothership.

If I let them follow my BL, and I then split BL to form a concave, then stop following and just hang around somewhere not near the battle.

How do you guys do this?


I have them in same control group as infestors. Since you should not a-move ur infestors, u should be fine.


Thanks for this, it's brilliant in simplicity . Been wondering for a while how to solve this - even found that you can't shift-queue follow command, so if one blord die, overseer will follow the next one. But this is even better.


You're welcome ^^

Show nested quote +
On January 25 2013 02:01 Mavvie wrote:
I don't hotkey them, I make them follow my broodlords

and make a lot of them, like you can make 10 and put one following each broodlord so you should always have detection.


Wow are you kidding me? why 10???? it's 500 gas man lol. + you could be severely supply blocked if you lose them (like 120/200 lol) I usually make 3 or 4. Protoss cant snipe 4 overseers (i also research speed).

Show nested quote +
On January 25 2013 03:09 Mavvie wrote:
haha, yeah I use hotkeys

I even add the eggs to my control groups before they finish morphing! I just meant that to avoid suicidal overseers, you can set 1 overseer to follow each broodlord. That way, as long as at least one broodlord is alive, you'll have detection following you.

I did find that funny


Just saying, but you can have 2-3 overseers and queue move (follow) command on each broodlords. So that they will follow a broodlords no matter what happen. If you're gosu, you will even take the overseers one by one and order them to follow different broods at the start. So that they dont get all sucked into a vortex at once even if you should still have fungal to reveal units.


OK so the last thing - about shift-queue'ing overseers on different broodlord - this does not work. From what I tested, the overseer with a shift-queue-move command on different blords just goes from one to another until the queue is finished, and then follows the last one. So it's not as cool as rally on units, which works until last one dies.

So - you're left with choosing random blords and spreading detection - which is not ideal. If you have 4 overseers and your 4 chosen blords die, they will stop following. If you spread blords before battle by dragging boxes, your overseers will stop following if you box them too.

That's why I think your idea of having them in the infestors control group is cool - the only problems I see:
1. You have to be close enough to the battle to detect effectively
2. They might have tendency to get clumped up whenever you move infestors, which could be bad in a vortex situation.

Did you have any problems with that? I'll definitely play with this .
Tomorrow’s Battle is Won during Today’s Training
llIH
Profile Joined June 2011
Norway2147 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-01-25 10:41:23
January 25 2013 10:40 GMT
#9415
Is it a good idea to get early lair after 2nd hatchery (= 2 hatcheries. 1 in main, 1 at natural) to get overseer for scouting? Then removing drones off gas to mine more minerals or putting away correct amount from gas to supply your desired army?

I feel so vulnerable playing with hatchery tech macroing up on 3 bases. I know I am supposed to scout. But some times it is difficult if the enemy is really trying to prevent you. Of course this means that the enemy might have a plan coming very soon.

For example. Lair - overseer + overlord speed upgrade. This would give me so much information on the map. But is it a total suicide doing this?
Discarder
Profile Joined July 2012
Philippines411 Posts
January 25 2013 10:54 GMT
#9416
On January 24 2013 20:50 Henk wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 24 2013 17:20 Discarder wrote:
I saw an instruction youtube video of DRG doing a 10-Roach rush against a 1 rax FE into hellion banshee build. He killed 16 workers in the first attack. Opponent tried to build a 3rd CC to remake the lost workers.

After that he just continued droning, got a lair, upgraded roach speed, made more roaches, attacked again and won.

How was it worth it? I was wondering, he paid 750 minerals and 250 gas and only killed workers. Its theoretically not good exchange, can anybody analyze why was it good and how he won despite the attacking not getting a good cost to cost exchange?

I'd like to post the link but its forbidden. seach roach pressure and dongraegu on youtube



I actually posted that video on this page, like 8 posts before you. When a worker dies, you can'tsimply say '50 minerals gone', because in the time terran remake those 16 workers, those 16 workers (if they were still alive) would've mined a ton of minerals.


ah of course! how silly, wasn't thinking, didn't factor in the mining time, yes, that was a lot.
You can take the lion out of the jungle, but you can't take the jungle out of the lion
Natalya
Profile Joined December 2011
Belgium287 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-01-25 11:02:59
January 25 2013 10:57 GMT
#9417
On January 25 2013 19:40 KAB00000000M wrote:
Is it a good idea to get early lair after 2nd hatchery (= 2 hatcheries. 1 in main, 1 at natural) to get overseer for scouting? Then removing drones off gas to mine more minerals or putting away correct amount from gas to supply your desired army?

I feel so vulnerable playing with hatchery tech macroing up on 3 bases. I know I am supposed to scout. But some times it is difficult if the enemy is really trying to prevent you. Of course this means that the enemy might have a plan coming very soon.

For example. Lair - overseer + overlord speed upgrade. This would give me so much information on the map. But is it a total suicide doing this?


Are you trolling? I'd like to have informations about you before I answer any of your post. I saw you posting in terran help me thread and seems to me like you're flooding the forums for some reason. Are you a random player? If I'm wrong it's my bad. I'm thinking about reporting you


On January 25 2013 18:50 RedDeathLiquid wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 25 2013 06:51 Natalya wrote:
On January 25 2013 01:36 RedDeathLiquid wrote:
On January 25 2013 00:36 Natalya wrote:
On January 25 2013 00:12 Henk wrote:
Question: How do you prevent your overseers from dying in lategame ZvP? I just have them with my army, but if I a-move they fly into the opponents units and die, leaving me without vision for the mothership.

If I let them follow my BL, and I then split BL to form a concave, then stop following and just hang around somewhere not near the battle.

How do you guys do this?


I have them in same control group as infestors. Since you should not a-move ur infestors, u should be fine.


Thanks for this, it's brilliant in simplicity . Been wondering for a while how to solve this - even found that you can't shift-queue follow command, so if one blord die, overseer will follow the next one. But this is even better.


You're welcome ^^

On January 25 2013 02:01 Mavvie wrote:
I don't hotkey them, I make them follow my broodlords

and make a lot of them, like you can make 10 and put one following each broodlord so you should always have detection.


Wow are you kidding me? why 10???? it's 500 gas man lol. + you could be severely supply blocked if you lose them (like 120/200 lol) I usually make 3 or 4. Protoss cant snipe 4 overseers (i also research speed).

On January 25 2013 03:09 Mavvie wrote:
haha, yeah I use hotkeys

I even add the eggs to my control groups before they finish morphing! I just meant that to avoid suicidal overseers, you can set 1 overseer to follow each broodlord. That way, as long as at least one broodlord is alive, you'll have detection following you.

I did find that funny


Just saying, but you can have 2-3 overseers and queue move (follow) command on each broodlords. So that they will follow a broodlords no matter what happen. If you're gosu, you will even take the overseers one by one and order them to follow different broods at the start. So that they dont get all sucked into a vortex at once even if you should still have fungal to reveal units.


OK so the last thing - about shift-queue'ing overseers on different broodlord - this does not work. From what I tested, the overseer with a shift-queue-move command on different blords just goes from one to another until the queue is finished, and then follows the last one. So it's not as cool as rally on units, which works until last one dies.

So - you're left with choosing random blords and spreading detection - which is not ideal. If you have 4 overseers and your 4 chosen blords die, they will stop following. If you spread blords before battle by dragging boxes, your overseers will stop following if you box them too.

That's why I think your idea of having them in the infestors control group is cool - the only problems I see:
1. You have to be close enough to the battle to detect effectively
2. They might have tendency to get clumped up whenever you move infestors, which could be bad in a vortex situation.

Did you have any problems with that? I'll definitely play with this .



if you have 4 broods followed by 4 overseers and they're far away apart and they all die, ur whole army is prolly dead :D

About the clumping of overseers with my method, the thing is i manually split infestors by boxing them, and i make sure to draw my box so that i catch some (not all) overseers, so they're spread as well. Detection range is quite the same as fungal, i didnt have problems with that
llIH
Profile Joined June 2011
Norway2147 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-01-25 11:23:46
January 25 2013 11:22 GMT
#9418
Are you trolling? I'd like to have informations about you before I answer any of your post. I saw you posting in terran help me thread and seems to me like you're flooding the forums for some reason. Are you a random player? If I'm wrong it's my bad. I'm thinking about reporting you


I am not trolling. I play random. I was master level Terran 2 years ago. Started random now. Started college - didn't have time for sc2 first 2 years. I can win platinum level Zerg and Protoss. Learning Zerg and Protoss at lower level than Terran.

- Keep thinking why do I have to give you a reason to answer my question? Isn't this a "Zerg help me thread"?
Natalya
Profile Joined December 2011
Belgium287 Posts
January 25 2013 11:37 GMT
#9419
On January 25 2013 20:22 KAB00000000M wrote:
Show nested quote +
Are you trolling? I'd like to have informations about you before I answer any of your post. I saw you posting in terran help me thread and seems to me like you're flooding the forums for some reason. Are you a random player? If I'm wrong it's my bad. I'm thinking about reporting you


I am not trolling. I play random. I was master level Terran 2 years ago. Started random now. Started college - didn't have time for sc2 first 2 years. I can win platinum level Zerg and Protoss. Learning Zerg and Protoss at lower level than Terran.

- Keep thinking why do I have to give you a reason to answer my question? Isn't this a "Zerg help me thread"?


Ofc it is a Z help me thread and i'll answer your question. But if it happened you were trolling i would not have any reason to answer you. Coz i would'nt like to be played a fool would i?

For your question no you dont need to go lair after 2 hatch. Slow overlords will see gas timings which is huge. If you see no gas at natural prepare yourself for a gate all-in. Then slow overlords should run into the main by 6:30 or so, one from the main, one from the natural. You should most of the time find your scouting info
llIH
Profile Joined June 2011
Norway2147 Posts
January 25 2013 12:11 GMT
#9420
On January 25 2013 20:37 Natalya wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 25 2013 20:22 KAB00000000M wrote:
Are you trolling? I'd like to have informations about you before I answer any of your post. I saw you posting in terran help me thread and seems to me like you're flooding the forums for some reason. Are you a random player? If I'm wrong it's my bad. I'm thinking about reporting you


I am not trolling. I play random. I was master level Terran 2 years ago. Started random now. Started college - didn't have time for sc2 first 2 years. I can win platinum level Zerg and Protoss. Learning Zerg and Protoss at lower level than Terran.

- Keep thinking why do I have to give you a reason to answer my question? Isn't this a "Zerg help me thread"?


Ofc it is a Z help me thread and i'll answer your question. But if it happened you were trolling i would not have any reason to answer you. Coz i would'nt like to be played a fool would i?

For your question no you dont need to go lair after 2 hatch. Slow overlords will see gas timings which is huge. If you see no gas at natural prepare yourself for a gate all-in. Then slow overlords should run into the main by 6:30 or so, one from the main, one from the natural. You should most of the time find your scouting info


Ok. Thank you. =)
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