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Make sure you read the OP before asking a question. Asking a question already addressed in the OP will result in moderation action. Also, please put some effort into your questions. |
On January 26 2013 11:27 obis wrote:is there any standard way of getting your extractors? what i usually do is when i want gas i make an extractor and rally 3 eggs of drones onto the geyser so i don't loose any mining time. however i see a lot of players don't bother doing that and they just pull drones off the mineral line. how do you guys count your workers? like to know when your base is fully saturated. im still learning 
The thing is, you're probably losing mining time rallying eggs into the gas unless you're sure your drones will hatch at the exact time needed for them to go into the gas.
Because, if your drones hatch too late for starting to harvest, your gas could've been done a little later (and the drone used to make the gas could've mined 5 more minerals).
If your drones hatch too early and are waiting for the gas to finish, you're also losing mining time because they could be harvesting minerals during that time.
So the way to do it is at the exact time the gas finish, you box your drones so that you just catch 3 of them (takes some practice), click on the gas then hit the hotkey for returning cargo, so that if they have minerals they'll bring it back before starting to harvest gas. If you have more than 3 selected, your shift click 3 times on your drones and click again on the mineral line.
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How can you defend 6 pool as a Zerg? and how can you beat mass siege tanks, or just break siege tank line? thx for answers you beautiful people
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On January 27 2013 03:55 Phantasmiq wrote:How can you defend 6 pool as a Zerg? and how can you beat mass siege tanks, or just break siege tank line? thx for answers you beautiful people
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=295586
Second one: Have broodlords, use burrowed infestors to poop IT eggs all over them, or drop roaches on them.
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Henk could you try to be more precise in your answers? And also tell if something has "worked for you" or if you know it from watching some pro do it. Like dropping roaches, the thing is it will only works against mech. Against biotank (marine tank) it's a terrible terrible idea as your overlords will die before unloading anything.
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On January 27 2013 04:05 Natalya wrote:
Henk could you try to be more precise in your answers? And also tell if something has "worked for you" or if you know it from watching some pro do it. Like dropping roaches, the thing is it will only works against mech. Against biotank (marine tank) it's a terrible terrible idea as your overlords will die before unloading anything.
I will answer precisely if the question is precise as well. 'How do I deal with tanks' isn't precise and thus giving precise answers is kinda useless, if not impossible due to every situation being different.
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regarding siege tank lines.
its not a direct answer, but i ask myself "do i really need to break his siege tank line at this given moment" in the first place? its like trying to fight that terran player on terrain where he has his biggest advantage. i get better results exploiting their weaknesses, like their tank immobility. as long as i feel confident dealing with possible medivac drops i prefer to expand and tech. i try to attack him when he is unsieged and do runbys when he moves out. this requires vision, pre-positioning, unit control and the right decision making. easier said than done. cutting off his reinforcements also helps.
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When early game scouting, I generally send my drone across the map at 14 or 15 when my Pool or Hatch are going down. However, this obviously means I'm often walled out by the time it gets there. On the other hand, I always feel wary sending it earlier since I'm greedy and want to expand faster.
What's the general scouting times against the races? I've been away for a long time and am trying to get back into gear.
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I'm currently having a hard time with protoss. I am a high level gold leaguer and I get crushed by mass stalkers. What do I do! Here is an example of this in my replay. https://sites.google.com/site/zsc2replays/replauy
the name is condemned ridge (5)
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On January 28 2013 06:12 Requizen wrote:
When early game scouting, I generally send my drone across the map at 14 or 15 when my Pool or Hatch are going down. However, this obviously means I'm often walled out by the time it gets there. On the other hand, I always feel wary sending it earlier since I'm greedy and want to expand faster.
What's the general scouting times against the races? I've been away for a long time and am trying to get back into gear.
Hm I always drone scout at 10 zvt to see potential 2 rax and see if opponent is going 1 rax, does he have gas or not, etc.
Zvp if it's a big 4 player map I will scout at about 15-16 supply.
zvz I only rely on overlords. If you want to drone scout do it on 9 so you can at least block a hatch first if that's what he is doing. If you 15 pool don't drone scout, if you do anything but a 15 hatch do not drone scout it's just a waste of a drone.
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Blade, isn't it nice to drone scout in ZvZ? The way I see it is you can't really tell a difference between the various 1 base all ins (regular 10p, 10p bane, 10p speed, 14/14 ling/bane) if you just go by expansion timings, and it can be hard to identify them just by counting units. Also on 4 player maps it can be a death sentence. Like I don't drone scout, I just do a blind 15p/16h/17g, but I would say that doing a 9 drone scout and then hatch firsting and knowing exactly what your opponent is doing would be worth it.
Basically:
9 drone scout. On 2 player maps or 4 player that you scout first:
Go 15 hatch if you can, know everything that he's doing, play as greedy as you can.
On 4 player maps that you scout 2nd or last:
Go 15 pool/16 hatch, and you'll know exactly what he's doing, so you shouldn't die to any 1 base play.
Just a thought...
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On January 28 2013 07:37 Mavvie wrote:
Blade, isn't it nice to drone scout in ZvZ? The way I see it is you can't really tell a difference between the various 1 base all ins (regular 10p, 10p bane, 10p speed, 14/14 ling/bane) if you just go by expansion timings, and it can be hard to identify them just by counting units. Also on 4 player maps it can be a death sentence. Like I don't drone scout, I just do a blind 15p/16h/17g, but I would say that doing a 9 drone scout and then hatch firsting and knowing exactly what your opponent is doing would be worth it.
Basically:
9 drone scout. On 2 player maps or 4 player that you scout first:
Go 15 hatch if you can, know everything that he's doing, play as greedy as you can.
On 4 player maps that you scout 2nd or last:
Go 15 pool/16 hatch, and you'll know exactly what he's doing, so you shouldn't die to any 1 base play.
Just a thought...
I actually wonder if drone scouting and going 15H afterwards would make up for the eco lost due to drone scouting and just going 15P 16H.. Haha.
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If you delay their hatch well, I'd say it is. Also, drone scout hatch first into speedling all in hits harder than blind 15 pool into speedling all in because of the larvae timings...I dunno, I've been offracing as Protoss recently so haven't experimented much with ZvZ. I had a lot of success with blind 15 pool 16 hatch 17 gas into 2 base muta with lots of speedling aggression, taking a third and then roach/infestor....honestly, people are so bad at defending mutalisks it's astounding. Well controlled speedling/muta will demolish any mid or lower masters Zerg hehe
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You should check the OP of this thread.
On January 28 2013 07:37 Mavvie wrote:
Blade, isn't it nice to drone scout in ZvZ? The way I see it is you can't really tell a difference between the various 1 base all ins (regular 10p, 10p bane, 10p speed, 14/14 ling/bane) if you just go by expansion timings, and it can be hard to identify them just by counting units. Also on 4 player maps it can be a death sentence. Like I don't drone scout, I just do a blind 15p/16h/17g, but I would say that doing a 9 drone scout and then hatch firsting and knowing exactly what your opponent is doing would be worth it.
Basically:
9 drone scout. On 2 player maps or 4 player that you scout first:
Go 15 hatch if you can, know everything that he's doing, play as greedy as you can.
On 4 player maps that you scout 2nd or last:
Go 15 pool/16 hatch, and you'll know exactly what he's doing, so you shouldn't die to any 1 base play.
Just a thought...
Nono, overlords gives you any information you would want. I open 15 pool 16 hatch 15 over 15 gas every game, and even on 4 player maps, here is how you get your information :
opponent hatch timing is earlier than yours : hatch first obviously. You have time to get into the main to see gas timings. Most of the time his gas timing will be slightly faster than yours. You dont really need to do it but if you want to be 300% safe, go bane nest before speed.
opponent hatch is same as yours : well, he did the same build. Go speed and bane nest
opponent hatch is a great deal later: he did go for 14 gas 14 pool into hatch. Very early ling speed timing incoming. Make sure to get baneling nest, a spine and at least 4 banes ready.
You dont see a hatch : count the lings coming!!! The most popular early pool build are not all-in builds but 8-9-10 pool looking for a cancel on a hatch first build. Make pure lings, pull 5 drones with your lings and you end up 1-2 drones ahead. Take your gas at normal timing but put 2 drones in it.
He doesnt care for your hatch but go into your main: he's trying to all-in. Make a spine, a queen and full ling production. This combination of production will beat any one base cheese. If he goes bane u'll have to split your drones but that's about it. Resume drone production if you see no more ling coming through the map, some zerg will not gg right there but will try to drone and pretend they were not all-in. You can find some tricks on how to defend those all-in in belial's guide on beating 6 pool.
About overlord scouting: now that antiga is cross only and entombed is no horizontal pos, send your overlord to the first possible location, send your second overlord to the second possible location. In any case you'll see ling coming.
Hurray!! you saved yourself 100 minerals worth of drone scout!!
On January 28 2013 07:46 Mavvie wrote:If you delay their hatch well, I'd say it is. Also, drone scout hatch first into speedling all in hits harder than blind 15 pool into speedling all in because of the larvae timings...I dunno, I've been offracing as Protoss recently so haven't experimented much with ZvZ. I had a lot of success with blind 15 pool 16 hatch 17 gas into 2 base muta with lots of speedling aggression, taking a third and then roach/infestor....honestly, people are so bad at defending mutalisks it's astounding. Well controlled speedling/muta will demolish any mid or lower masters Zerg hehe
You dont need to drone scout as I just explained. And if your opponent did go for 15 pool 16 hatch your scouting drone will not block his hatch at all. He can just bring 1 or 2 drones and chase yours early enough to get his hatch down.
On January 28 2013 07:40 Henk wrote:Show nested quote +On January 28 2013 07:37 Mavvie wrote:
Blade, isn't it nice to drone scout in ZvZ? The way I see it is you can't really tell a difference between the various 1 base all ins (regular 10p, 10p bane, 10p speed, 14/14 ling/bane) if you just go by expansion timings, and it can be hard to identify them just by counting units. Also on 4 player maps it can be a death sentence. Like I don't drone scout, I just do a blind 15p/16h/17g, but I would say that doing a 9 drone scout and then hatch firsting and knowing exactly what your opponent is doing would be worth it.
Basically:
9 drone scout. On 2 player maps or 4 player that you scout first:
Go 15 hatch if you can, know everything that he's doing, play as greedy as you can.
On 4 player maps that you scout 2nd or last:
Go 15 pool/16 hatch, and you'll know exactly what he's doing, so you shouldn't die to any 1 base play.
Just a thought... I actually wonder if drone scouting and going 15H afterwards would make up for the eco lost due to drone scouting and just going 15P 16H.. Haha.
15 p 16 H is NOT worse economically than 15 hatch is. Hatch first will have same drone count and slightly faster gas timing, and that's about it. You dont go hatch first to be ahead in macro, you go hatch first to gamble a little bit against some early cheese and to get slightly ahead with your speed timing (you're ahead ~48 gas). It takes quite a good amount of skill to make something happen out of that earlier speed but it's possible.
On January 28 2013 07:40 Henk wrote:Show nested quote +On January 28 2013 07:37 Mavvie wrote:
Blade, isn't it nice to drone scout in ZvZ? The way I see it is you can't really tell a difference between the various 1 base all ins (regular 10p, 10p bane, 10p speed, 14/14 ling/bane) if you just go by expansion timings, and it can be hard to identify them just by counting units. Also on 4 player maps it can be a death sentence. Like I don't drone scout, I just do a blind 15p/16h/17g, but I would say that doing a 9 drone scout and then hatch firsting and knowing exactly what your opponent is doing would be worth it.
Basically:
9 drone scout. On 2 player maps or 4 player that you scout first:
Go 15 hatch if you can, know everything that he's doing, play as greedy as you can.
On 4 player maps that you scout 2nd or last:
Go 15 pool/16 hatch, and you'll know exactly what he's doing, so you shouldn't die to any 1 base play.
Just a thought... I actually wonder if drone scouting and going 15H afterwards would make up for the eco lost due to drone scouting and just going 15P 16H.. Haha.
15 p 16 H is NOT worse economically than 15 hatch is. Hatch first will have same drone count and slightly faster gas timing, and that's about it. You dont go hatch first to be ahead in macro, you go hatch first to gamble a little bit against some early cheese and to get slightly ahead with your speed timing (you're ahead ~48 gas). It takes quite a good amount of skill to make something happen out of that earlier speed but it's possible.
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Is this a good idea to make a pool at 10 just to let your oponent thinks you are going early aggression but after pool create just a pair of lings to prevent scouting and drone hard?
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Can be if he screw up. But make sure to not die to all the stuff he'll be making to counter the agression he thinks is coming. You'd have to go ling drone drone drone then hatch before queen to make it happen. If he overreact totally you could be even.
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Philippines411 Posts
On January 27 2013 03:23 invisible.terran wrote:
Is there a reason why people prefer to take gas at different locations (like 1 at main, 1 at nat instead of 2 at main)? Thanks, guys.
I think players do this mainly because of mineral saturation. Example, when a player rallies his 2 hatcheries to the natural minerals while droning, it would be much wise to build geysers there at the natural because most of the drones go there.
If you rally your drones to natural and you build two geysers at your main, you will have empty mineral patches at your main and your natural would be oversaturated.
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On January 28 2013 16:08 Discarder wrote:Show nested quote +On January 27 2013 03:23 invisible.terran wrote:
Is there a reason why people prefer to take gas at different locations (like 1 at main, 1 at nat instead of 2 at main)? Thanks, guys. I think players do this mainly because of mineral saturation. Example, when a player rallies his 2 hatcheries to the natural minerals while droning, it would be much wise to build geysers there at the natural because most of the drones go there. If you rally your drones to natural and you build two geysers at your main, you will have empty mineral patches at your main and your natural would be oversaturated.
Or it can be harder to scout. t
Terran scans zergs main sees 1gas .. but the other is on expo = doesnt assume agression
Zerg pokes toss natural sees gas and doesnt assume agression .. gasses in main could not be taken or it can be 1main 1natural etc.
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I'm looking for help on infestor micro in zvz. I've been playing infestor-ling (mr. bitter's style).
Currently here's how I micro in infestor-ling vs roaches: lings on 1, infestors on 2. Lings a-move into their army, never get touched again. Infestors: walk close-ish to their army. Hold "f" key for fungal, left-click as many times as needed to cover their whole roach army with a fungal. Hold "t" for intested terran, spam left click around their army. Try to not put any infested terrans right next to roaches because that's where lings go. When first round of fungals is wearing off, do another round of fungals. Spend rest of energy on infested terrans. I never touch the shift key when using infestors.
In infestor vs muta, I think the best thing you can do is chain-fungal a group of them, but you need 5 fungals. Not sure if you're supposed to be using infested terrans also or just go for the awesome chain-fungal. One thing I've learned through lots of errors and some experimenting in the unit tester is that you should try to fungal the shadows of the muta, not click on where they actually are in the air.
Any thoughts? Any suggestions for things to practice (e.g., in a unit tester, what's a good goal for a battle to be able to win)?
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On January 29 2013 03:04 schwza wrote:
I'm looking for help on infestor micro in zvz. I've been playing infestor-ling (mr. bitter's style).
Currently here's how I micro in infestor-ling vs roaches: lings on 1, infestors on 2. Lings a-move into their army, never get touched again. Infestors: walk close-ish to their army. Hold "f" key for fungal, left-click as many times as needed to cover their whole roach army with a fungal. Hold "t" for intested terran, spam left click around their army. Try to not put any infested terrans right next to roaches because that's where lings go. When first round of fungals is wearing off, do another round of fungals. Spend rest of energy on infested terrans. I never touch the shift key when using infestors.
In infestor vs muta, I think the best thing you can do is chain-fungal a group of them, but you need 5 fungals. Not sure if you're supposed to be using infested terrans also or just go for the awesome chain-fungal. One thing I've learned through lots of errors and some experimenting in the unit tester is that you should try to fungal the shadows of the muta, not click on where they actually are in the air.
Any thoughts? Any suggestions for things to practice (e.g., in a unit tester, what's a good goal for a battle to be able to win)?
Be sure to have air flyer help thingy on. It shows some kind of 'line' so you know where to use fungal to hit air units. (It's an option somewhere in the options tab).
Chainfungaling mutas is probably the best option. If they're split very well, take them down with hydras or queens; infestors are really bad vs well spread mutas. You want a healthy amount of queens vs a muta player.
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EPT
((((
