The Zerg Help Me Thread - Page 466

On January 18 2013 02:51 Mrvoodoochild1 wrote:

firstly, stephanos build order is not to just make a bunch of roaches. He only makes enough roaches to survive the mid-game so he can get to BL/Infestor. You should try to do this as well. Also, if a protoss is able to amass a max carrier mothership army with templars mixed in, you have already lost. It is impossible to kill that army if controlled properly by the protoss so you should try to win before that. Keep in mind that it is VERY hard to reach this late game comp as protoss. Carriers cost a lot of money to produce and take a shit long time to bring out so you can hit a max Bl/infestor timing before this.

On January 18 2013 05:29 Kraelog wrote:
[D] 3 Hatch before pool in ZvT: Genius or Retarded ?


I've been playing a lot of ZvT in the last weeks and I've been going 3 Hatch before pool with great succes. But I never see this on high level stream and/tournaments. Are there timings GM terrans can hit which my opponents are simply incapable of or is it something else?


Basic BO

9 OL
10 Scout
(If I scout gas or proxy I obviously go standard. But with a CC first of Rax/noGas I feel there isn't much the Terran can do)
15 Hatch
17 OL
18 Hatch
Pool whenever you hit 200mins.

After this I get 1 Queen from my main, 2 from my natural & 2 from the third. By the time the Terran realises I've gone 3 Hatch Before Pool (3HBP :p), there really isn't any option for him to kill my third. His hellion/Banshee are late since I scouted no gas and with 5 Queens I can easily hold it. A mass marine/hellion attack is dangerous, but mass slowlings, 5 Queens & a Spine to tranfuse easily hold it. After this I enter the midgame with a good lead.

So....nice idea or retarded for a reason I don't see?

On January 18 2013 18:48 NemesisTrestkon wrote:
What is usually the best aggressive counter to a FFE?

On January 18 2013 09:57 Mavvie wrote:
3 hatch before pool is okay, but auto loses to any sort of bunker rush, even off a 1rax FE. In theory you could pull drones to defend, but that's so much lost mining time that 15 hatch 16 pool is better.

On January 18 2013 23:16 Oboeman wrote:


What if you do something weird like switch the order of the hatcheries? First 3rd, then natural.

If he bunkers the 3rd, he doesn't cut you off from your main, and you can either let it go (and counterattack) or try to save it.
If he bunkers the natural, you cancel it and have ling production on both sides.

if he bunkers both, maybe it doesn't do enough damage to either because his forces are split?

i don't know. just a thought.

On January 19 2013 01:42 TheDwf wrote:

Certainly not with 1 rax FE; by the time your scouting SCV sees the late Pool (~3'40 at best on most maps with the standard scout after Barracks), you've already cut your second Marine and thus it's too late to instantly punish the late Pool. If you immediately move out your first Marine upon scouting late Pool you won't reach Zerg's natural or third before ~4'30-4'40 at best, by which time Pool is already done. Worst case scenario Terran blindly moves out his first Marine as soon as he appears (3'10) so it's there at 4'00-4'10 at your natural or third; well what then? Just follow the scouting SCV with a Drone so he cannot start a Bunker uncontested, then pull some Drones and chase the Marine (ignore SCVs if he brings some) and he can't do anything to complete a Bunker; at best second Marine starts at 3'30, is complete at 3'55 and thus cannot join the party before 4'45 - 4'55, so good luck completing a Bunker with only one Marine against Drones.

On January 19 2013 02:17 Llea wrote:
Hey guys,
I am a recently promoted Gold Zerg player.
I realised that I have no idea about timings and builds, how to spot them and therefore react to them. I try to play reactively (scouting), with keeping money low and bla bla, you know, the basics.

How should I learn about those build orders? Is it efficient to look for some material on the internet or should I just learn the hard way (playing games)?
Should I learn some build orders for myself, or is it okay to play without an exact build?

On January 12 2013 20:48 Natalya wrote:





There is actually two methods to spam IT. You can either use the shift method as described. Make sure, before you hold shift and press your infested terran hotkey, to order a move command to a place out of range of your ennemy's units. The second method is simply to hold your infested terran hotkey (without any use of shift) and click everywhere you want an infested terran. There's an upside and a downside to this method. First of all, you dont need to hold shift, which is cool, but you are also giving an new order to one of your infestor each time you click, which can lead to less eggs popping. Let's say you have 12 infestors. They are out of range of where you want to pop ur eggs. You select your infestor, hold your infested terran hotkey and click 15 times at a certain place. Only 12 eggs will pop, one per infestor, because when you are clicking the 13th time, you are replacing an old "cast terran egg" order with a new one, thus cancelling the old order. That means that this second method is less efficient if your infestors are not already in range of the place where you want them to spam eggs.

On January 19 2013 14:28 usNEUX wrote:
Day9 just did a daily on Catz going 4H before pool in ZvP, was fun to watch. If you're trying to go 3H then pool ZvT then you obviously need an earlier drone scout (I think 13 will do it) to check for an aggressive opening. I feel like Terran can easily just drop another CC and delay gas and all of a sudden they're really not far behind. Would be cool to see a 3H pool into late baneling bust build where you just drone up your main/nat and use your third for ling larva. You could probably hit a timing to punish the kind of greedy play you often see. At the same time you'd be safer against a player who is trying to punish your greedy 3H by going 5/6 rax or something with 10-15 marines very fast.

On January 19 2013 04:18 TheDwf wrote:

Didn't see any 11/11 talk in this discussion.

On January 19 2013 17:51 Insomni7 wrote:

I have actually thought about this and have had success with a roach bane all-in after 3 hatch before pool. The danger is that many terrans may respond with aggressive hellion banshee, and banshees are pretty good against that sort of build. The way I do it, the attack is also delayed about 30 secs off of a normally timed bust if you want the same number of roaches/banes. You do have more lings though.

On January 19 2013 07:10 FrogOfWar wrote:


I checked again in a replay. The problem is in fact that when I want to throw an infested terran and accidentally click on an enemy unit, which happens when I want infested terrans in their army, that enemy unit gets selected and therefore, since my infestors aren't selected any more, the next clicks do nothing. It was clear from my player cam in the replay how first my group of infestors was selected and when I started spamming, a sequence of opponent units got selected randomly. Weird, I tested for this again vs ai, and there it doesn't happen. Shit, if you're a zerg and can't throw infested terrans into opponents army, you're in trouble.

Speaking of trouble, I can't beat terran. I'm in platinum. Most of my platinum zerg and protoss opponents I find ezpz, so that bnet gives me diamond opponents frequently. But I lose to gold terrans in a not even close manner. Yes, I read the guide linked in the OP. The problem basically is that I can't attack the turtle and they only come out of the turtle when they have a death ball that can kill everything I can muster up by just looking at it funny. Well, one of many problems. Talking about mech mostly. For BLs I feel you have to be really rich because you need BLs AND a shit ton of corruptors AND infestors. I don't get that rich before their death ball comes. I tried drops. Drops on their bases to slow them down and buy time, drops on their army to avoid dying on the ground before even touching them. Banelings as well as zerglings and roaches. Doesn't do anything. They just pull their workers and move their army in, anything I damage is repaired. I could drop when they moved out of course, but a base race with a terran seems like a bad idea. I tried early aggression (roach, ling, baneling) on their natural to prevent or delay the death ball phase. And yes, I can shut down their natural for a while, but they push me out eventually, and it doesn't seem to matter. Sorry for the rant, but I'm really frustrated right now.

EDIT: I got the solution to the first problem:
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=295763

On January 18 2013 05:30 cabal] wrote:
What have I done wrong in this game, he pushed me with immortal sentry, I kinda hold it off. When I see he goes collosis I made some corruptor and tried to focus them down. I ended up buying some time and had a greater spire ready but there was no time to get broods out
http://drop.sc/295935