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Its perfectly viable to go ling/bane/muta the entire game you just need to have a base lead and keep the harrass on. Mostly i think its personal prefence but i think with your build it would be easier to go for ultra/ling/bane if your used to controling lots of stuff. Just build nydus and attack all over the map with ultras and banelings you can add infestors to the mix. With a build like that your really trying to starve his army until you can deal with it shich is pretty much what you are doing with zergling/bane/muta. I think its best for players to figure things out on their own which throws some really wacky builds in the way of the meta. If you can make it work let it work if it stops working watch replays and change it a little. then try it out again. thats how builds are pioneered. If your looking to follow their are plenty that are out their for you to steal.
This is viable ? isn't too late ? I dont will be too exposed to marine/tank push ?
If it's not viable, someone can explain to me a standard build muta/gling/ban with fast third ?
Thx for all
Perfectly viable but I'd recommend to get the lair before double upgs and transition to ling/bane/ultra, then transition to infestor bl if he plays very camp style.
This is viable ? isn't too late ? I dont will be too exposed to marine/tank push ?
If it's not viable, someone can explain to me a standard build muta/gling/ban with fast third ?
Thx for all
There is a 2/2 maxed Muta/ling/baneling timing attack you could use. It's pretty straightforward and surprisingly strong. It was used against Thorzain in proleague so it works at the highest level. It's basicically a 4 or 6 queen opening with a fast third. Prepare to attack with 200 supply muta ling baneling (10 or 12 mutas at most) right when 2/2 finishes. Your build can pull this attack off but I'd make the baneling nest and lair up sooner. I use at 2nd 100 gas for lair.
Newly diamond player here. Because of all your great help and guides I was finally able after almost 2 years to get out of platinum THANKS ALL
Ok so my questions :
Been seeing a lot of 3 pylons block now. I though you had to stack your drones by repeatedly clicking on the natural's minerals patches and then attack the pylons. I tried doing that and for some reason it didn't work. What am I missing here?
And also what is the best follow up? I was thinking nydus but they found it just in time and it didn't work
I also saw a Terran blocking my ramp with a bunker + rax. Do I answer the same way as the 3 pylons block?
I like to check for this look through your prvious games and see when they are doing this three pylon block plan to have either zerglings out or a drone in front of your ramp. You have to go 14 pool at least in every game aginst a toss. the 7 pool uasully workif you just want to cheese a game after losing streak. because most protoss meta game you think theirs no way he will seven pool. If they have a forge up then you've got drone behind your seven pool and try and get as much of a advantage as you can. Another thing i have had success with is going normal build but if they get the jump on you and pylon block you. If you have a drone try and expand to some random place on the map where you have an overlord you don't want them cannon rushing that expo. then double gas whilest also working on defeating the pylon block with queens spines extra. only build zerglings if you have to drones are really important right now. Grab lair as soon as you can and keep droning while expanding creep try and take your expo using made spine crawlers two at most for defend. As soon as lair is done go spire making sure your oppenonet doesn't see it. Your main goal with the muta is to cause damage lots of it because you were forced into tech because of his pylon block. Grab muta upgrades (before you build muta) as soon as possable whilest trying to keep your mineral gas ratio so that you can build drones and expand whilest attacking with the muta. Keep in mind that the muta are not just for attack you get a free look in his base. This means that if you see that at some point muta will be useless or you can't kill him aka he has templar getting out archons do tons of damage or that he went crazy with the cannons (4-5 cannons any less and a big muta ball will destroy it.) Then win gl with this strat took along time to build up and formulate keep in mind that it will take awhile getting used to it.
On January 16 2013 01:21 b0ub0u wrote: Newly diamond player here. Because of all your great help and guides I was finally able after almost 2 years to get out of platinum THANKS ALL
Ok so my questions :
Been seeing a lot of 3 pylons block now. I though you had to stack your drones by repeatedly clicking on the natural's minerals patches and then attack the pylons. I tried doing that and for some reason it didn't work. What am I missing here?
And also what is the best follow up? I was thinking nydus but they found it just in time and it didn't work
I also saw a Terran blocking my ramp with a bunker + rax. Do I answer the same way as the 3 pylons block?
The drone drill trick sometimes have to click on a different mineral patch. Also what I would do is once you see the probe I would send a drone and hold position on the ramp.
It's dumb, but it's what I would do if I were you so that you never have to deal with that. I would do the same if I saw an scv as well (well at least follow the scv by attacking it with a drone) just to avoid those kind of free wins for your opponents.
If it completes you can do a couple things.
You can get a baneling nest and destroy the 3 pylons with a few banelings and then play a macro game (or try to toss is pretty far ahead when they do this), or try a ling bane all in after you break the contain.
You can use roaches and do the same thing (although if you go roaches might as well go all in tbh).
You can try nydus and I am surprised how this still works vs toss players who do the 3 pylon wall lol.
Honestly, the only time I stay in the game is if I was able to sneak a drone out earlier. Otherwise there's no point; the time wasted is simply not worth my ladder points
Tip: ALWAYS go fast infestors with at least 1 evo cranking carapace/melee upgrades. 99% of players follow up pylon wall->expand with a 2 base blink all in, and infestors are way better than mutas against this.
Here's a game where I beat a maphacker/automation botter who does the 3 pylon wall...the game is dirty, he's SO bad that I completely destroy him with roach/ling/infestor. I was going to cut drones just after 50, but scouting his base he had so little so I droned to ~65 and then maxed out very quick. http://drop.sc/294125
You can try busting the pylons, you'll have some success with that. It's up to you, would you rather have a 50ish% chance of winning, or just get to the next game a few minutes earlier?
On January 08 2013 03:53 ziigmund wrote: Hi ! Can you PPL give me safe openings to practice (im very newb) . Need ZvP , ZvZ and ZvT openings. Tnx in advance!
I'd recommend dApollo's newbie zerg tutorial. Here's the link
On January 12 2013 19:57 Mahtasooma wrote: There's a lot of talk about a 10pool opening with 8-10 lings to pressure in ZvZ, not getting a queen but getting an expo first, trying to force a cancel.
Does anyone have a replay / build order / VOD of this..?
Just try this vs computer, its the simplest way to start
Build 10 drones Pool 9 Overlord 1 drone save up 3 larvae, as pool finishes build 3 sets of lings (6 lings) + start a queen when next lavae pops shortly after this build 1 more ling-set, hotkey & rally all 8 building lings to opponent's nat Overlord, expand or more lings here, i usually always expand cause my goal is to force cancel on a hatch first on a big map. If he is going pool first, I want my expo down while I pressure so I'm not behind
On January 15 2013 21:25 FireMonkey wrote: 2 questions,
1) How do I be aggressive against a terran early on? I can never do any damage because they get bunkers and then later siege tanks, the thing is they do an early expansion or even an early third and they know that I can't do crap about it so it just drags the match on to the macro game which is annoying because I dont want terrans getting a critical number of marines and tanks or worst of all, thors. So what good builds can nearly certainly end the ZvT before 15 mins? (I'm in gold league so anything is possible). I'd prefer something that's not all in-ish but if you need to, then say an all in. In my league the ZvTs just drag on to actionless macro games where i have to send wave after wave of units into his marine tanks line til i wittle him down. So i'd prefer to end it quickly rather than play a 30 min game of me siting on 7 bases with 20 hatches while he sits on 3 bases. then when he realises he can't win he just floats his buildings all over the map and goes AFK...believe it or not this is SO ridiculously common for me.
Try roach/bane all-in. It may kill him or at least do a lot of damage if he does not scout it and put down additional bunkers. If he scouts it, you will still do damage and can transition by taking a lair and a 3rd.
Basic Build 15H/16P/17gas => 3Qns + 2-4lings (take and control towers, reduce his opportunity to scout your attack) - defend your natural with dbl queens and a spine, if needed (helions) @100 gas -> ling speed + DRONES @44 supply -> Dbl Gas (to a total of 3) + Roach Warren => Build 3 additional overlords @RoachWarren -> 8-10 roaches + LINGS + Baneling Nest - Move out on map, make sure he does not scout your roaches. Get some lings closer to his base @BaneNest, morph banes & rally more speedlings => Attack (option to start 3rd before starting attack, if you know you want to transition) Transition to lair and macro normally from here, establish 3base saturation with lair tech
On January 16 2013 05:34 Mavvie wrote: What do you consider fishy? If done properly, it looks like a regular 13 forge 17 nexus until he throws down the pylons at your ramp...
Like, sticking around after I planted my hatchery. No reason not to go in my main or to my 3rd. Fishy may have been a weird word to use.
On January 16 2013 05:34 Mavvie wrote: What do you consider fishy? If done properly, it looks like a regular 13 forge 17 nexus until he throws down the pylons at your ramp...
Like, sticking around after I planted my hatchery. No reason not to go in my main or to my 3rd. Fishy may have been a weird word to use.
True, but nothing's stopping Protoss from poking in to your main to see your gas, then timing it right so that when he leaves (supposedly to check your third) he plants the pylons. Granted that's probably the safer way to do it, I just accept the loss because in the future/in tournament games it is fixed.
Hey guys, having a BIG problem with air units from protoss and terran. All my losses so far are from air units. How do I deal with them?! How would I know they are going to go mass banshees or mass void rays? What can I do to counter? What units should I get? How would I be able to scout them properly if my overlords just dies right away and they block off there entrance?
Hey bros, in ZvZ, I'm always having a problem defending 14/14 ling/baneling using 15h/15p, 18 gas 5 minute baneling nest and spine. After that. I just create pure lings but I still die..
Generally, What adjustments do i make in 15H if i see 14/14?
On January 15 2013 12:48 Brindled wrote: Is there a beginner's guide to spreading creep anywhere? I want to know how to do it well.
There are numerous ways to do it, usually against terrans i'll do a 4 queen opening so i can hold of early hellion/banshee pressure and with the 2 spare queens i use them for creep tumors. you can hotkey them to something like 9 or 0 if you want to. but if oyu need a method to constantly remember to plop tumors just sync your creep tumor placement with larva injects, so inject lrva and then get your creep queens to place tumors, because it takes a little over 1 larvae inject to get 25 energy. and also use the placed tumors to spread more - the more tumors the better.
and also if you want to you can look up on YouTube "EGidra talks creep spread" and it will be in a video series by TeamEG. He shows how he does his creep spread.
There are also quicker methods of making creep highways to yours and your oponent's base, 1 is to have lair and get the overlord to spew creep, this is risky because you may lose the overlord at some point and it can be devasting (it's actually cost me a game or 2 being supply blocked from it). So what you should do is get overlord speed upgrade and/or the transport one and spew creep on the ground then place a creep tumor then get the overlord away. There you have it, a nice creep highway. I prefer spamming creep tumors because it's a feeling of satisfaction when you see you have conquered the map with your creep spread. No where for the terrans to land except his 2 mined out bases...ahh it's amazing.
A more expensive way to do it is nydus worms...this is more expensive but if oyu have the money it's pretty good because you can transport units directly outside the guys base. Either it's pretty bad to do.
On January 16 2013 12:35 Discarder wrote: Hey bros, in ZvZ, I'm always having a problem defending 14/14 ling/baneling using 15h/15p, 18 gas 5 minute baneling nest and spine. After that. I just create pure lings but I still die..
Generally, What adjustments do i make in 15H if i see 14/14?
Get both queens on your ramp. Watch his expansion timing with your overlord - if a drone doesn't come down with his first lings, that means he is still mining gas, and you need to be cautious. Save queen energy for transfuses. You don't need both injects when he is on one hatch (and you can't afford both injects either). Your baneling nest won't be done in time for his first attack, but the queens on your ramp will buy enough time, especially if you can get enough energy for a transfuse.
re pylon block: always patrol a drone or have a drone follow the probe.
If a wall goes down, immediately grab 3 drones and attack the centre pylon, while using the drone outside (the one that was following the probe) to block him from adding extra layers behind that pylon. Start your zerglings as soon as possible, rally them down, and bring more of your drones with them when they hatch. Pull the original 3 drones back to let the zerglings attack, and then slip all the lings/drones through the wall and kill his cannons. As soon as the threat is neutralized, go back to mining and let lings finish off the remaining pylons. don't let a new probe in. Only 3 drones can attack the middle pylon, which is not enough to kill it before it finishes. But it is enough to hurt the pylon enough that your lings can kill the pylon before his first cannon finishes. That lets you get all your units outside the wall to kill the cannons. It does not work if he continues adding buildings behind to block. That's why you need a drone on the outside to block him from reinforcing the wall. if you need that outside drone, it may as well just be patrolling your ramp to stop this whole business to begin with. if that doesn't break you out, move on to the next game.
On January 16 2013 12:35 Discarder wrote: Hey bros, in ZvZ, I'm always having a problem defending 14/14 ling/baneling using 15h/15p, 18 gas 5 minute baneling nest and spine. After that. I just create pure lings but I still die..
Generally, What adjustments do i make in 15H if i see 14/14?
Only 3 drones can attack the middle pylon, which is not enough to kill it before it finishes. But it is enough to hurt the pylon enough that your lings can kill the pylon before his first cannon finishes. That lets you get all your units outside the wall to kill the cannons. It does not work if he continues adding buildings behind to block. That's why you need a drone on the outside to block him from reinforcing the wall. if you need that outside drone, it may as well just be patrolling your ramp to stop this whole business to begin with. if that doesn't break you out, move on to the next game.
With mineral drilling, you can attack the pylon with as much drones as you want no ?
EPT
THANKS ALL
