EPTAs I've improved I've really only changed by becoming more comfortable with turtling until hive. I think that every midgame strat should be focused on staying alive until hive using ling/infestor. Saw ling/infestor in the gsl a few times, it's so good.
The Zerg Help Me Thread - Page 394
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Mavvie
Canada923 Posts
As I've improved I've really only changed by becoming more comfortable with turtling until hive. I think that every midgame strat should be focused on staying alive until hive using ling/infestor. Saw ling/infestor in the gsl a few times, it's so good. | ||
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syriuszonito
Poland332 Posts
On October 02 2012 00:16 Mavvie wrote: ^ I kinda disagree. Starting your infestation pit when lair finishes is only 150 gas? Small potatoes, considering its your only gas unit. Idk, I defended one the other day with 3 queens/4 hatches, hit 75 food at 8:00 and just POWERED lings and 20 roaches, feigned attacks to bait force fields, then when I first engaged I sniped all his sentries. It was then stalkers against +1 lings, not a pretty scene. I had tons of gas banked, I would've been in a better position with hive started. Lings are free, infestors are imba. Roaches are good against gateway units. Even if he takes a third, you have map control, a huge Eco, and broodlord tech will be done in time for his push. As I've improved I've really only changed by becoming more comfortable with turtling until hive. I think that every midgame strat should be focused on staying alive until hive using ling/infestor. Saw ling/infestor in the gsl a few times, it's so good. Well infestation pit + upg is 250/250, thats over 500 minerals (if you think about getting gas later and collecting minerals instead of it) that you would have to spend on units. I think its still really hard to defend a well executed immortal all in so that slight tech delay is definitely worth it for me. | ||
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Drorctopus
Netherlands135 Posts
On October 01 2012 23:15 Drorctopus wrote: Hey guys, I'm a high dia zerg and i have got some general questions. I kind of know gas/lair timings but not exactly sure. Could you give me some general timings in every mu for gas/lair timings? bump for answer. Otherwise it will probably get lost in the thread ^^. | ||
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Henk
Netherlands578 Posts
On October 01 2012 23:43 MiTakko wrote: The last zvp i played i was allin by immortals=( and died horriblly. I dont haepve a rep atm, but basicly he did a good macro and build order for his allin, and i started to make units on 4 hatchs with 59 drones, and i had no time for my units to pop, is that too many drones to fend this build? i watchedthe rep, he warped 7 centris on the way to my base, rather than at home. I didn scout that, is that suppose to be easier to defend since he would have less FFs? If i were suppose to be scouting for centry counts, and the opponent warps centries at proxy, what should i do? Actually, 60 drones is about right. If you couldn't get units in time I'd say it's probably because your macro slipped. You should have around 55-60 drones at 8:00 minutes in game. (a little bit less or more, I'm not sure.) Immortal sentry all ins hit at 10:00-10:30. Start pumping units at 8:00; you'll want mostly lings, with some roaches. (MAX 20 roaches, rest lings). You'll want to be making mostly lings until he pushes out, and roaches when he finally starts moving. Cuz if he takes a 3rd, at least you won't have dumped your money in gas units, so your tech won't be as delayed. Get a replay if you can, and I'll watch it. | ||
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syriuszonito
Poland332 Posts
On October 02 2012 00:47 Drorctopus wrote: bump for answer. Otherwise it will probably get lost in the thread ^^. zvz 1st gas 3-3:30, at 6 min lair and more gases (all 4 for muta play, not sure if 3 or 4 for roach into infestor play) zvt a lot of options here I presonally like the 2 gases at 4:30 the most because its after the scouting scv and terran thinks you go gaseless 6 queens. Lair if you want to go mutas then 6:00, if you want to go double evo upgs first then its something around 7:30. Gas nr 3 and 4 around 7:00. zvp 2 gases at 6:00 (or 44 supply), 3rd gas (some take 4th as well) at 7:00, you get lair either with your first 100 gas or after ling speed (so 7:00 or 7:30). | ||
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AshenCZ
Czech Republic46 Posts
What are the "timings you should know" for each respective matchup? I mean I know that in ZvP you should get 2 gases at 6', roach warren and evo at 7' and that's pretty much it :-D When's Bane Nest in ZvZ and ZvT? When is a good time to get lair? When is a good time to add gases? And one to check my macro - if I go unchecked, how many drones at XX' minutes? And so on?  If someone did a short (I mean really short) summary of these important timings I should know before I dive into ladder, I'd be really thankful. Thanks, hoping to get all zergy in no time )Ashencz EDIT: Oh, so I see the post above that's about lair timings and gases! Thanks! So I just basicly need the tech structures like Baneling Nests now | ||
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Drorctopus
Netherlands135 Posts
On October 02 2012 01:01 syriuszonito wrote: zvz 1st gas 3-3:30, at 6 min lair and more gases (all 4 for muta play, not sure if 3 or 4 for roach into infestor play) zvt a lot of options here I presonally like the 2 gases at 4:30 the most because its after the scouting scv and terran thinks you go gaseless 6 queens. Lair if you want to go mutas then 6:00, if you want to go double evo upgs first then its something around 7:30. Gas nr 3 and 4 around 7:00. zvp 2 gases at 6:00 (or 44 supply), 3rd gas (some take 4th as well) at 7:00, you get lair either with your first 100 gas or after ling speed (so 7:00 or 7:30). Thanks a lot man | ||
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Guamshin
Netherlands295 Posts
He started off with some redicolous 2 gate proxy "build", massed some zealots and then expanded and threw down 2 stargates, i tried to play it standard after his cute opener but after i saw his 2 Stargates i knew he had no idea what he is doing. I always fall apart whenever people go 2+stargates, it's so weird to play against, usually people just say kill him before he gets a big air army but also in this game my opponent survives and kills every attack easy with chargelot support. What i tried in this game was going roach/hydra into corruptor+ infestor while being as aggresive as i feel like i could. Didn't work, lost every single engagement. Please watch the replay ;;. http://www.gamereplays.org/starcraft2/replays.php?game=33&show=details&id=272198 | ||
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sCCrooked
Korea (South)1306 Posts
On October 02 2012 02:34 Guamshin wrote: So ZvP game again which i lost, opponent had no idea what he was doing all game but still won(heartbreaking T_T) He started off with some redicolous 2 gate proxy "build", massed some zealots and then expanded and threw down 2 stargates, i tried to play it standard after his cute opener but after i saw his 2 Stargates i knew he had no idea what he is doing. I always fall apart whenever people go 2+stargates, it's so weird to play against, usually people just say kill him before he gets a big air army but also in this game my opponent survives and kills every attack easy with chargelot support. What i tried in this game was going roach/hydra into corruptor+ infestor while being as aggresive as i feel like i could. Didn't work, lost every single engagement. Please watch the replay ;;. http://www.gamereplays.org/starcraft2/replays.php?game=33&show=details&id=272198 The biggest issue I see here is that you don't seem to know how to respond to 2 gate expansion. The advantage of 2 gate expo is that they have a lot of zealots early on to pressure you so you can't drone up while they take an expo. -Overlord placement: Your first ovie was not being micro'd properly because you neglected to ever see his 2nd gate up on the ledge. You also missed when he puts down his forge and have no vision of his zealot count. These are all ESSENTIAL steps in defending properly. -Ling decision: You sacrificed your first lings for a pylon which isn't a good trade. You should've moved right in and micro'd them against his probes. -Late spine: Your spine at your natural was pretty late considering what you were about to face. 4-5 zealots should force a spine at least and then you defend with your first 2 queens and lings -Late gas: Against any sort of gate-first expansion, you NEED zergling speed to maintain map control and allow you to macro up. -Late follow-up scouting: Your 2nd overlord scout seemed very late to me. You should've been poking in around 7-8 minutes to see if he was making some sort of follow-up all-in or a tech switch follow-up (which it was in this case). -Tech choice: You chose to go hydra/roach which might work in theory vs a 2 stargate all-in off an FE but this wasn't that build. His warpgate was delayed until 10:40 to finish and his air count was pretty low. If you had proper defenses at the start, you would've been able to kill several probes while bolstering your own since he literally did nothing after those first zealots. You could've had a lair ready and even a spire finished off a standard opening. Roach/Corruptor would be how to deal with this very late air switch. Quite simply if he made air, you'd actually have more corruptors than he had air units total. You also would've had more roaches than all his ground forces plus half his probes combined. On both fronts, you'd have won easily. This build is very strange but the reason you just don't see it any more at higher levels is that it really doesn't work if the Zerg knows what to do with the first lings/gas. | ||
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HighLach
United States132 Posts
On October 02 2012 02:52 sCCrooked wrote: I will edit this post in a few minutes. Watching the replay now. Okay, honestly, if someone does a stupid opening and leaves a gaping hole in their defense, throw gas down, mass speedlings, and over run him. You did not need a third against a guy going gateway first. You could have killed him with mass lings without speed. If someone deviates from the standards, you usually can just go kill them. You saw the lack of forge, you even saw the units coming out with your overlord. And it wasn't proxy, it was nearby his base. Double stargate is a heavy investment. Just throw down a spore at each base, and build queens or try to kill him quickly with hydras. | ||
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Henk
Netherlands578 Posts
On October 02 2012 02:34 Guamshin wrote: So ZvP game again which i lost, opponent had no idea what he was doing all game but still won(heartbreaking T_T) He started off with some redicolous 2 gate proxy "build", massed some zealots and then expanded and threw down 2 stargates, i tried to play it standard after his cute opener but after i saw his 2 Stargates i knew he had no idea what he is doing. I always fall apart whenever people go 2+stargates, it's so weird to play against, usually people just say kill him before he gets a big air army but also in this game my opponent survives and kills every attack easy with chargelot support. What i tried in this game was going roach/hydra into corruptor+ infestor while being as aggresive as i feel like i could. Didn't work, lost every single engagement. Please watch the replay ;;. http://www.gamereplays.org/starcraft2/replays.php?game=33&show=details&id=272198 To counter double stargate, I like queen+spores and corruptor. Hydras are usually not that good because they spawn at different hatcheries and you need them all together or phoenix will just lift and kill them one by one. Usually follow up is colossi, which means hydras aren't that great. Just be sure to keep trading and never let him get 6+ void rays, because that will just kill everything you have. (Source: Gameplay and Belial's guide --> http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=320038&fb_source=message ) | ||
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OhMyGhosty
40 Posts
NA Servers Ghosty.810 | ||
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Mavvie
Canada923 Posts
On October 02 2012 06:32 OhMyGhosty wrote: I need someone to practice with. I started playing Sc2 about 1 month ago, and I'm currently in Bronze league placed 11-15th NA Servers Ghosty.810 Here you might find what you're looking for: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=369647 | ||
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RedAprilify
Sweden16 Posts
I just wanted to check if my idé on aproaching this P players attack is right. Would i have won if i just made some more spines at my fourth and diden't engage him at the ramp like a retard?  (If you have anything else to point out in my play please do!) Here's the replay: http://drop.sc/260731 Thanks! | ||
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gronnelg
Norway354 Posts
Against pure bio (MMM), could you stay on muta ling bling? | ||
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HighLach
United States132 Posts
Also, hive units for zerg are just way better, and the 3/3 upgrades =D. But in response to your question, without tanks, banelings become much more effective. | ||
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Mavvie
Canada923 Posts
On October 02 2012 00:26 syriuszonito wrote: Well infestation pit + upg is 250/250, thats over 500 minerals (if you think about getting gas later and collecting minerals instead of it) that you would have to spend on units. I think its still really hard to defend a well executed immortal all in so that slight tech delay is definitely worth it for me. True, and you know how many times I've scouted sentries and immortals and it wasn't an all-in? 0. I think the timings work out so that you won't be able to start the upgrade before he moves out, and ofc you don't start it if you see him charging towards your base. Really I think it comes down more to macro and engagements, not spending a bit on the infestation pit. You'll have an excess of gas anyway if you open standard then go ling-heavy. | ||
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star_fox
Canada4 Posts
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sCCrooked
Korea (South)1306 Posts
On October 03 2012 00:48 Mavvie wrote: True, and you know how many times I've scouted sentries and immortals and it wasn't an all-in? 0. I think the timings work out so that you won't be able to start the upgrade before he moves out, and ofc you don't start it if you see him charging towards your base. Really I think it comes down more to macro and engagements, not spending a bit on the infestation pit. You'll have an excess of gas anyway if you open standard then go ling-heavy. Not to discredit your points at all, but there is such a thing as immo/sentry expand which allows them to very very safely take a third base off about 5 gates. Its 2 gates less so its not as deadly if they were to push, but they DO have the option of doing so. Otherwise they just take a 9:00 or so third base and you gotta switch it up quickly. | ||
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Mavvie
Canada923 Posts
What's the best way to deal with something like this? I threw down IT/fungal, queens absorbed fire as I ran lings up the ramp of the cliff, but it is a very inefficient, dangerous way to deal with it. If he started his attack there, I might've lost; tanks are in range of hatch and I didn't have infestor tech out at that time. | ||
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