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Make sure you read the OP before asking a question. Asking a question already addressed in the OP will result in moderation action. Also, please put some effort into your questions. |
On October 04 2012 05:57 ZealotKiller wrote:Show nested quote +On October 04 2012 05:46 Mavvie wrote:
^Nope. You lose if he does 10 pool 8/12 drones pulled if you open hatch first. Simple as that. The solution I use is to drone scout on 2 player maps, and simply open 15p/16h/17g on 4 player ones if I don't scout him with my overlord. Only way to avoid build order loss.
I mean, it's been defended before even at high levels, but you have to severely outmicro them/they have to screw up hard. Yea that seems to be what most people I ask say. But, I mean, so many people go 15 hatch no drone scout. If so many people do that, there MUST be a way to defend it, no? Or else this build would be used so much more in tourneys since going 15 hatch is very standard.
They are relying on the fact that you going blindly 10pool is just as big a risk as the 15 hatch, because it is disadvantaged against everything else.
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Question on overlord placement at the beginning of the game. Most of the pros send their first overlord to their opponents expansion and the second to a convenient scouting location for later in the game. My question is, without having vision near their natural, how do they avoid being cannoned or bunker rushed?
Thanks!
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On October 04 2012 04:05 Henk wrote:Show nested quote +On October 04 2012 02:56 AshenCZ wrote:Hi, I just played ridiculous ZvZ because of my opponent going muta - how MANY spores per base if he goes muta and I go roach/infestor? I built 2 but he had like 16 mutas so that was kinda EZ for him  Resulted in 51 minute game with me having 18 Brood Lords at the end :-D Crazy scenarios with base trading included :-D So how many spores should protect me against like +/- 18 mutas till I get my festors out? Thanks! EDIT: Or are mass queens the answer? I had 4 of them to protect 2 bases but again, against that many mutas it just isn't fair... poor queens  The counter is scouting. You did not scout, or you would've seen him going mutas before 16 of them were in your base. Secondly, your tech was probably late. Before your enemy has 16 mutas you will surely have infestors out, and queens+spores+infestors will deal with mutas just fine. Post a replay if you feel like my advice isn't enough, and you would like me or someone else to take a look.
wrong.
I scouted the spire half way up but I didn't know how to properly react... do I rush infestors? do I mass queen? do I mass spore? That's why I asked. Thanks for nothing.
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On October 04 2012 23:14 AshenCZ wrote:Show nested quote +On October 04 2012 04:05 Henk wrote:On October 04 2012 02:56 AshenCZ wrote:Hi, I just played ridiculous ZvZ because of my opponent going muta - how MANY spores per base if he goes muta and I go roach/infestor? I built 2 but he had like 16 mutas so that was kinda EZ for him Resulted in 51 minute game with me having 18 Brood Lords at the end :-D Crazy scenarios with base trading included :-D So how many spores should protect me against like +/- 18 mutas till I get my festors out? Thanks! EDIT: Or are mass queens the answer? I had 4 of them to protect 2 bases but again, against that many mutas it just isn't fair... poor queens The counter is scouting. You did not scout, or you would've seen him going mutas before 16 of them were in your base. Secondly, your tech was probably late. Before your enemy has 16 mutas you will surely have infestors out, and queens+spores+infestors will deal with mutas just fine. Post a replay if you feel like my advice isn't enough, and you would like me or someone else to take a look. wrong. I scouted the spire half way up but I didn't know how to properly react... do I rush infestors? do I mass queen? do I mass spore? That's why I asked. Thanks for nothing.
I rather go Hydras and 4 queens ( 1 for each bases & 1 for macro hatch) with less spores instead of infestors first with mass spores. When you finished dealing ( for me, when they see you have hydras and spores at your bases they go back to their bases and starting roach infest productions) with the mutas you can hard counter and most of the time the other zerg players doesnt have many roaches or infestors out after following is mutas, then you win the game.
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That guy I played against made like 15 spines at his natural so a counter attack failed to deliver :-D About hydras - can you really support hydras on 2 bases?
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On October 04 2012 23:47 AshenCZ wrote:
That guy I played against made like 15 spines at his natural so a counter attack failed to deliver :-D About hydras - can you really support hydras on 2 bases?
At best it is situational. I think there is a timing you can hit where the other guy expands and techs to infestors where you can hit him when he only had a couple infestors with one fungal each and a handful of roaches. But in this day and age hydras off two base isn't particularly good.
Against mutas hydras are ok, but infestors are worlds better. Lack of mobility and Speed banes can be a real problem for hydras. I think hydras should only come to play if you are attacking or just about to be attacked.
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How do you scout against Zerg? in a ZvZ.
How do you react to a turtled up zerg.
What should I do against a Roach Infestor build?
What should i do if i Scouted that he has a spire? (Build some spores?,make infestors?)
Where should my overlord placements be at against zerg? ( I know it should be everywhere but I wish to know the best placements.)
What should i react to their gas timings? (Because i think when anyone goes 3 bases with 6 gas its a Mutas, i really need to get the habit out of that because there are people who go 2 base with 4 gas and mutas.) Please help me out with Zvz ^^
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United States1176 Posts
On October 05 2012 00:27 PhanCast wrote:
How do you scout against Zerg? in a ZvZ.
How do you react to a turtled up zerg.
What should I do against a Roach Infestor build?
What should i do if i Scouted that he has a spire? (Build some spores?,make infestors?)
Where should my overlord placements be at against zerg? ( I know it should be everywhere but I wish to know the best placements.)
What should i react to their gas timings? (Because i think when anyone goes 3 bases with 6 gas its a Mutas, i really need to get the habit out of that because there are people who go 2 base with 4 gas and mutas.) Please help me out with Zvz ^^
(1) Use your OLs, a scout drone, or a scout ling. First OLs should be spread out to give you complete vision of your opponent's likely push path. Sending out a scout drone (anywhere from 9 to 13) is reasonable if you are committing to hatch-first play and would be susceptible to early pressure. Finally, a pair of lings should be able to get into their base to see gas timings and tech.
(2) Same basic principle as with other races. Expand and gain an economic and tech advantage. In ZvZ in particular, you should be getting detection and static defense at your bases to deter infestor harass which is one of the few ways a turtling zerg can disrupt you. You should also be checking on their army (with OLs, overseers, changelings) to see its size and composition, and then you should be producing units while compounding your advantage accordingly.
(3) Roach/infestor is a solid mixture that requires a solid response as well --- usually your own roach/infestor play. If you are committed to other tech (i.e., mutas), you can still do damage while infestors are massing up by splitting up your mutas and sniping whatever you can.
(4) Spores are a good quick-response to a scouted spire. If infestors are you intended path, then you can simply continue down that route, although you should consider producing a few extra queens just in case your opponent pushes with his mutas anyways. Another option is to simply push with what you have --- usually roaches --- to force the mutas back while you build up the appropriate tech.
(5) Depends on the map. Priorities should be getting an OL to scout natural timing, OL line to keep tabs on his push path towards you, and OL to scout third timing. When you hit lair, one of the push OLs can be morphed into an overseers to see what his lair tech choice is.
(6) Probably too broad of a question to ask. You are right in that gas timings do not guarantee tech, although when you see early gas taken, you can assume it's for mutas or infestors, i.e., some kind of tech play.
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On October 04 2012 23:14 AshenCZ wrote:Show nested quote +On October 04 2012 04:05 Henk wrote:On October 04 2012 02:56 AshenCZ wrote:Hi, I just played ridiculous ZvZ because of my opponent going muta - how MANY spores per base if he goes muta and I go roach/infestor? I built 2 but he had like 16 mutas so that was kinda EZ for him Resulted in 51 minute game with me having 18 Brood Lords at the end :-D Crazy scenarios with base trading included :-D So how many spores should protect me against like +/- 18 mutas till I get my festors out? Thanks! EDIT: Or are mass queens the answer? I had 4 of them to protect 2 bases but again, against that many mutas it just isn't fair... poor queens The counter is scouting. You did not scout, or you would've seen him going mutas before 16 of them were in your base. Secondly, your tech was probably late. Before your enemy has 16 mutas you will surely have infestors out, and queens+spores+infestors will deal with mutas just fine. Post a replay if you feel like my advice isn't enough, and you would like me or someone else to take a look. wrong. I scouted the spire half way up but I didn't know how to properly react... do I rush infestors? do I mass queen? do I mass spore? That's why I asked. Thanks for nothing.
You don't have to act like a douche after you've gotten some free advice. You did not scout in time. Did you see his lair timing? If you've got a late lair, you can expect to get owned by mutas. If you started your lair in time, you could've gotten infestors out on time. If you start scouting when his spire almost pops you're too late.
tl;dr : Scout better, don't act like a douche on TL.
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On October 04 2012 23:14 AshenCZ wrote:Show nested quote +On October 04 2012 04:05 Henk wrote:On October 04 2012 02:56 AshenCZ wrote:Hi, I just played ridiculous ZvZ because of my opponent going muta - how MANY spores per base if he goes muta and I go roach/infestor? I built 2 but he had like 16 mutas so that was kinda EZ for him Resulted in 51 minute game with me having 18 Brood Lords at the end :-D Crazy scenarios with base trading included :-D So how many spores should protect me against like +/- 18 mutas till I get my festors out? Thanks! EDIT: Or are mass queens the answer? I had 4 of them to protect 2 bases but again, against that many mutas it just isn't fair... poor queens The counter is scouting. You did not scout, or you would've seen him going mutas before 16 of them were in your base. Secondly, your tech was probably late. Before your enemy has 16 mutas you will surely have infestors out, and queens+spores+infestors will deal with mutas just fine. Post a replay if you feel like my advice isn't enough, and you would like me or someone else to take a look. wrong. I scouted the spire half way up but I didn't know how to properly react... do I rush infestors? do I mass queen? do I mass spore? That's why I asked. Thanks for nothing.
Way to shit on somebody giving you free advice.
Scout better. if you're lair is that much later than his youre practically fucked anyways.
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On October 04 2012 23:14 AshenCZ wrote:Show nested quote +On October 04 2012 04:05 Henk wrote:On October 04 2012 02:56 AshenCZ wrote:Hi, I just played ridiculous ZvZ because of my opponent going muta - how MANY spores per base if he goes muta and I go roach/infestor? I built 2 but he had like 16 mutas so that was kinda EZ for him Resulted in 51 minute game with me having 18 Brood Lords at the end :-D Crazy scenarios with base trading included :-D So how many spores should protect me against like +/- 18 mutas till I get my festors out? Thanks! EDIT: Or are mass queens the answer? I had 4 of them to protect 2 bases but again, against that many mutas it just isn't fair... poor queens The counter is scouting. You did not scout, or you would've seen him going mutas before 16 of them were in your base. Secondly, your tech was probably late. Before your enemy has 16 mutas you will surely have infestors out, and queens+spores+infestors will deal with mutas just fine. Post a replay if you feel like my advice isn't enough, and you would like me or someone else to take a look. wrong. I scouted the spire half way up but I didn't know how to properly react... do I rush infestors? do I mass queen? do I mass spore? That's why I asked. Thanks for nothing.
I'm going to pile on a bit. But if you included the replay, people would not have to guess on the game state. Also you should try to be nice to others offering advice.
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In standard tvz (say 6 queen opening vs hellion/banshee), what do you guys think about getting 8ish mutas for map control / anti drop, then transitioning into Ling Infestor? Or are they too much of an investement (1000 mins/gas) and slow down infestors/hive too much?
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On October 05 2012 12:29 Sajaki wrote:
In standard tvz (say 6 queen opening vs hellion/banshee), what do you guys think about getting 8ish mutas for map control / anti drop, then transitioning into Ling Infestor? Or are they too much of an investement (1000 mins/gas) and slow down infestors/hive too much?
It's actually reasonably common in the GSL, but the trend seems to be going for more like 14-18 mutas before transitioning.
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Lol I'm playing random on ladder and just played a PvZ. Sat back, got a couple immortals and sentries, early, put up cannons against muta harrass, got a bunch of colossus, zealots, stalkers and immortals and 1A'd my way to victory.
I feel so dirty.
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On October 04 2012 23:12 shadogi wrote:
Question on overlord placement at the beginning of the game. Most of the pros send their first overlord to their opponents expansion and the second to a convenient scouting location for later in the game. My question is, without having vision near their natural, how do they avoid being cannoned or bunker rushed?
Thanks!
Thats why some players prefer to send their second overlord to their natural to look for those shenanigans. If not, you need to send a drone down to look. Lots of pros now will scout on 13 in ZvT to check for proxy barracks and cannon rushes actually aren't that common since the majority of zerg pros pool first.
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I had a question about ling micro in ZvP. I always seem to have terrible engagements vs toss with lings. How do you micro/engage with lings when:
1. You're defending? Are there different ways to micro lings depending on the composition you're facing?
2. You're attacking into him, and he's walled off?
Thanks.
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anyone have any good advice for builds if you spawn horizontal zvt on entombed?
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I need help in ZvT against mech. I'm a high Diamont player. Lost the last 6 games against meching players, trying out different stuff. Broodlords seem to fail miserably against mech because of vikings and thors. Corruptors dont seem to help me because in order to make them effective, they need to clump up and then thors just kill them fast.
So a player beating me said I just use upgraded ultras, he did lose to them alot. So i tried this out a couple of times, didn't work either. Here is a replay of my last attempt:
http://drop.sc/261523
I even grabbed a quite fast 3rd base and defended the initial banshee harrass reasonable well, but he just controlled the center the whole time. I even had 3-3 upgrades very fast. But I cannot attack with ultras into the center, too many tanks.
Please help, I have no idea how to deal with this anymore, I'm really frustrated...
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On October 05 2012 04:56 MstrJinbo wrote:Show nested quote +On October 04 2012 23:14 AshenCZ wrote:On October 04 2012 04:05 Henk wrote:On October 04 2012 02:56 AshenCZ wrote:Hi, I just played ridiculous ZvZ because of my opponent going muta - how MANY spores per base if he goes muta and I go roach/infestor? I built 2 but he had like 16 mutas so that was kinda EZ for him Resulted in 51 minute game with me having 18 Brood Lords at the end :-D Crazy scenarios with base trading included :-D So how many spores should protect me against like +/- 18 mutas till I get my festors out? Thanks! EDIT: Or are mass queens the answer? I had 4 of them to protect 2 bases but again, against that many mutas it just isn't fair... poor queens The counter is scouting. You did not scout, or you would've seen him going mutas before 16 of them were in your base. Secondly, your tech was probably late. Before your enemy has 16 mutas you will surely have infestors out, and queens+spores+infestors will deal with mutas just fine. Post a replay if you feel like my advice isn't enough, and you would like me or someone else to take a look. wrong. I scouted the spire half way up but I didn't know how to properly react... do I rush infestors? do I mass queen? do I mass spore? That's why I asked. Thanks for nothing. I'm going to pile on a bit. But if you included the replay, people would not have to guess on the game state. Also you should try to be nice to others offering advice.
People can write, but they cannot read. He asks "So how many spores should protect me against like +/- 18 mutas till I get my festors out?" and you respond with "Scout better" OMFG ^^^^^^^^^^^^
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On October 04 2012 23:12 shadogi wrote:
Question on overlord placement at the beginning of the game. Most of the pros send their first overlord to their opponents expansion and the second to a convenient scouting location for later in the game. My question is, without having vision near their natural, how do they avoid being cannoned or bunker rushed?
Thanks!
I would recomend any non-high level players of having the overlord at their nat to scout for that. Send the overlord to a good scouting location a bit later imo. It is just not worth it to send it out so fast unless you really know what you are doing.
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EPT
